Need help on my dust collection needs

[Joey Chavez]

Hello, new to the Creek and although I can find great information on many subjects I am getting a little lost on what my dust collection needs are. Seems like the more I read, the more confused I get. So perhaps if I lay out my specific situation, I can get some great "if I was you I would...." opinions. My shop is in a standard two car garage with 12' ceilings. I have a Grizzly hybrid table saw, router table, 6" jointer, portable planer, and today my new Laguna band saw should arrive. I realized early on dust collection was important, but mostly because the wife was complaining about the dust. I bought a 1hp Grizzly collector with 500 cfm. At first, thought it was great, but probably because it performed better than the shop vac. The more I get into this hobby the more I realize what I have isn't enough. On the table saw, gets the chips that fall but fine dust accumulates around the, motor, doesn't seem to capture anything on the jointer (although I've read part of the issue could be the machine design), and with the planer, it clogged up on the first board pass. With the Laguna on the way, I need improvement. I really can't add a second 220v to the garage right now, so limited to 110v. My initial thoughts are to get a 1.5HP cannister collector with 1000+ CFM, and hang an air cleaner from the ceiling, also 1000+ CFM. I'm certainly more educated now with heath risks etc. So what would you do if you were me?

[Dan Hintz]

The 120V limitation is a bear. Ideally, I'd suggest a 2-3HP unit and stick it in a corner with some good 6" piping, but you obviously can't do that with 120V. In your case, I'd go with as portable a solution I can find and move the unit from machine to machine with a relatively short 4" flex pipe, say 6' or less. If you go with a castered mobile solution, realize a lot of the casters on those carts suck unless you pay serious money. Either replace the casters or be prepared to drag rather than roll.

[Myk Rian]

I have the HF 2hp unit w/1micron filter in my garage. 120v. PVC pipe takes it where needed, and works great, even if it is 120v.

[David Kumm]

I would figure out how to run a circuit to the shop. You will spend money on solutions that only last a short time. It is not expensive to run some #10 wire and deal with the core problem first. Dave

[Callan Campbell]

Dan and David kind of nailed it for you. We, as woodworkers, tend to creep up to decent dust collection with multiple tries and lots of money and time thrown at it. Many people end up at the 2 or 3HP cyclone set-up after years of making do. However, if 220 wiring and amperage isn't a real possibility for you right now, you could step up in DC and get the 1.5HP unit, with a low micron rating hopefully like 5 or smaller from it's filter. Add the air filter unit as a hanging dust catcher, and you've made progress. I did exactly the same thing, moved up from a 1HP unit with a standard 30 micron bag, changed the bag to a 5 micron rated one. Then, sold that off and got my Delta 1.5HP with it's 2 micron canister. Added a JDS air filter unit, and will now get a Dylos Air Quality meter to keep an eye on all of that....... While still planning on getting that cyclone unit, some day, I hope....... See how we creep up on the end game of the cyclone units? Read up on Good Dust Collection usage, it really helps.

[Doug Colombo]

I also did the same thing as Callan and moved from a smaller unit to the Detal 1.5HP collector and a Jet AS1000b air filter unit. And the funny thing is I sold my smaller unit to a friend who has a small shop and was looking at that size unit, bought my Delta from my brother in law, who had saved up and purchased, you guessed it, a 3HP cyclone for his large shop. We called it "The Great Dust Collector Exchance" Win/win/win all around. :D

[Joey Chavez]

Thanks for the input guys. I really do want to add another 220 circut to the garage to support a bigger dust collector. My concern is I just finished the basement and loaded up the panel with new circuits, only one slot left. It's now a 150 amp panel for a 2500 square foot house. So I'm a little shy about adding anything to it before I upgrade the panel. But you have me thinking about that last open slot. I've learn my lesson on buying myself short on a tool and having to upgrade.

[Aaron Berk]

I saw an extension cord for sale online or in a magazine..... and now I can't find it.

But here's the deal, it was a 220 supply, that ran off of two 110 outlets.
It had it's own breaker that was totally isolated from the breakers on the panel. Unless something else on the line trips the panel..... I guess

So this product would get you by till you get 100% set up. It was around the $50 range I think.


I'll try and find it again

[David Kumm]

Joey, A 60 amp subpanel is pretty cheap. The 220 v circuit won't use more power than a 110 but one space won't allow for the 220 so you will lose a breaker in order to go to the subpanel and have to make it up there. Dave

[BOB OLINGER]

Hi Joey,

Welcome to the Creek. Given your shop is in your garage and sounds like you're tapped out on circuts, why don't you run a wire up to the garage and install a sub panel in the garage?

[Mike Cruz]

Joey, "if I were you", I'd invest the money into a dedicated 220 line for as powerful a dust collector as you can get. Why? Because as you've already noticed, what you initially got isn't enough. And for the size shop you have, a 110 DC isn't going to be. In my opinion, you need to run 6" pipe at a minimum. With a 110 DC, you will get about 1200 cfm at best. Sounds great, but after all your pipe lengths, bends, and flex pipe, you'll be running the equivalent of 100' of pipe to some of your machines. Your static pressure and cfm will be greatly diminished.

The problem with "right now" DCs (as with any right now tool) is that most of them will just end up costing you more money in the long run. For example, you bought a 1 hp unit. If you bought it new, and sell it, you'll lose about 1/2 of your investment. Then, you buy a 1.5 or 2 hp unit. Again, when you upgrade, you'll lose 1/2 of that, too. If you take the money that you would have lost in the resale of your old equipment and invest that into running a 220 line for a larger DC, you'll be happier in the long run.

What should you be running in your shop? Well, let's start with your equipment. Depending on what kind of person you are, you'll either be happy with what you have, or if you find a deal, you will upgrade whenever possible. I'm the second kind. I started my shop with a Ridgid TS and have move to a Unisaw, a HF jointer and moved to a Delta DJ-20 8", no planer to a 15 and now a 20", a 10 benchtop BS to a 20" and an 18"...the list goes on. Mind you, I found them all on deals. I didn't buy anything new. BUT, when I built my shop, I ran 110 and 220 throughout. So, when I upgraded to 220 machines, I was prepared. If you really want some forethought, find yourself a 3 phase converter that you can run your shop on! The deals on 3 phase machines are plentiful. That said, I would suggest at least a 2 hp machine. Look for an absolute minimum of a 12 3/4" impeller. Not sure if you can get a 13+ in 110. If you are looking for your "long term" DC (3-5 hp, and no, 5 hp isn't rediculous...I'm going there shortly because the Grizzly 3 hp just isn't enough for my 24x30 shop) a 14"+ impeller is best.

Joey, this all assumes you have the money to spend to look forward. If you don't, that is completely understandable. And stepping up in machines gradually, as you have the money may be your only choice. Best of luck with your shop.

[Carl Beckett]

I will just pile another vote on to the 220 upgrade recommendation.

In fact, if money was limited (I know my money is limited ;) ), I would spend to do the electrical upgrade and put off the equipment purchase, if a trade off was required. There are many performance advantages to 220 based equipment.

There is a way to get your electrical upgraded - talk to an electrician. I have a 2600 sq ft house on a 100A panel, which also runs my shop (I bought the house this way and yes, will upgrade the panel). Its all about what can be run at the same time.

[Joe Angrisani]

I saw an extension cord for sale online or in a magazine..... But here's the deal, it was a 220 supply, that ran off of two 110 outlets.....

I guess I don't see how this would work. The two 110 (120) outlets would have to be on two different breakers that are sequential vertically in your panel to provide two separate 120s from the two different hot feeds in the panel. And two outlets next to each other on a room wall would most likely be on one breaker.

::::::::::::::::::::

Joey.... As some have said in other electrical posts, you can probably use a slim-line breaker. They allow two circuits to fit in the space of one normal breaker. Look at your panel and find two 120V circuits lined up together vertically (preferably 15A if possible only because I'd like lower amperage in the slimline). Put the two circuits on one new slim-line, and it will free up a slot for a slim-line 240V double breaker. If you decide to run 30A/10GA, you may have to turn 4 regulars into 2 slim-lines, then use the two free slots for a regular 30A/240V breaker.

[Paul McGaha]

Joey,

My shop is in a standard 2 car garage also.

How much to spend and what to spend it on are I'm sure different for everyone. Also depends on how long you plan to operate out of this shop.

To me, If you are going to stay at this location for some time, and if you are trying to put together a pretty well equiped shop (Which it sounds to me like you are), I think what would be best is to put in a 220 volt subpanel that is large enough to serve the shop. Thats what I have in my shop. It has a 60 amp circuit feeding it. This panel is adequate to run a full size dust collector and 1 of the 220 volt tools in my shop at the same time or any number of 120 volt tools.

My shop lighting is fed from the existing lighting circuit from the panel that serves the rest ot the house.

I have no heating and cooling loads (Yet). I may heat and cool the shop next year and that will probably mean upgrading the size of the feeder that serves my subpanel. I probably will do that next year because as it is my shop has to pretty much close in the summer because its too hot for me to work out there.

If you are anything like me, That 6" Jointer might one day become an 8" Jointer. That Benchtop Planer may become a full size stationary planer. That contractor saw might become a cabinet saw. All these upgrades are to 220 volt machines. I actually went thru all these upgrades.

Having a 220 volt subpanel in the shop is very useful.

Good luck with it.

PHM

[Aaron Berk]

I saw an extension cord for sale online or in a magazine..... and now I can't find it.

But here's the deal, it was a 220 supply, that ran off of two 110 outlets.
It had it's own breaker that was totally isolated from the breakers on the panel. Unless something else on the line trips the panel..... I guess

So this product would get you by till you get 100% set up. It was around the $50 range I think.


I'll try and find it again


A little late, but I found it last night. And it was in a ShopNotes magazine issue 118
Here is the link http://www.quick220.com/220_volt.htm
quick220.com

[Mike Cruz]

Neat idea, Aaron. Not sure if $210 is "reasonable", but if it is your only option, I guess it is at least AN option...

[Dale Cruea]

Joey, Just a thought. You say you have 110 in your shop now. If you have a electrical box there check it to see if it is indeed 110v. Most boxes are 220v coming in but people only use it as a 110v output. If you have a box you should have 4 wires coming into the box. If you do measure the voltage across the 2 black ones. I assume you know that 220v is made up from (2) 110v lines the are just 180 out of phase. I have all most the same problem, I have 220v to the shop but all of my outlets are 110v.

[Dan Hintz]

If you have a electrical box there check it to see if it is indeed 110v. Most boxes are 220v coming in but people only use it as a 110v output.
I can't say I've ever seen this as common... an install like this happens from time to time, but in my experience it is still quite rare.

[glenn bradley]

Most boxes are 220v coming in but people only use it as a 110v output.


I can't say I've ever seen this as common... an install like this happens from time to time, but in my experience it is still quite rare.

This may be regional(?). My entrance box to the house is a pair of 110v legs, I extended them to my shop sub-panel (per code) and have 110 and 220 service from there. All except the very oldest of houses I've occupied have been wired this was in my area(?). I'm no electrician; this is just an observation.

All that aside, I bought certain machines because they would run on 110v. As my interest in woodworking became more acute I realized my folly, added the 220v and replaced those machines at no small loss. We cannot predict how things will go, otherwise we'd all be rich :D. Try to asses where our interests will be in about a year, average the cost of installing 220v service across the hours of use over the next few years and you will probably talk yourself into it. I did an electrical improvement at my previous residence which I knew would be temporary. I surface mounted most of the items and took them with me.

P.s. I run a 2HP cyclone and would have had a 3HP if I could have made it fit. I still wish I would have gotten the 3HP and redesigned the shop around it but, I digress. The point is, I still have a 1HP bag unit that I put so much money into to make it adequate that I now just keep it for my spiral-head jointer as I would never get my money out of it and it is fine for one 'low dust' machine. Should put all that money, time and effort towards a proper unit in the first place. I'd be way ahead. Food for thought.

[Dan Hintz]

This may be regional(?). My entrance box to the house is a pair of 110v legs, I extended them to my shop sub-panel (per code) and have 110 and 220 service from there.
Every house I can imagine is wired with 240V coming in to the service box (two 120V legs), just as you have... but it's rare to see someone send a 240V line to a socket box and only use half of the service. There are code issues to worry about as far as return line gauge, etc. I've seen 240V wired and only 120V used because the intent was to eventually use that socket as 240V, but that's certainly not common...

[Dale Cruea]

Dan, I think I may have used the wrong terms in my post. I was taking about the main circuit box and not the outlet boxes. Sometime with a circuit box in a garage or an out building people are only using 110v for lighting and they do not realize that 220v is at the box. Sorry if I did not explain myself fully. :)

[Kevin W Johnson]

Dan, I think I may have used the wrong terms in my post. I was taking about the main circuit box and not the outlet boxes. Sometime with a circuit box in a garage or an out building people are only using 110v for lighting and they do not realize that 220v is at the box. Sorry if I did not explain myself fully. :)

You would be referring to the breaker panel. When people hear "box" they tend to think outlet box.

[Dale Cruea]

Kevin, Correct. Around here box means a breaker box, main box or aux box. We call the Outlet or receptacle as the plug in box. Then again as I stated, I am not an electrician. Sorry if my terminology caused any confusion. I will go back to my shop and make saw dust now.:D