Is the Klausz-Frid-Scand Bench Dead?

[Christopher Charles]

Hello all,

Someone noted that everybody loves a thread on building a bench (just like you can't have too many clamps?). I'm planning to migrate this thread to SMC:
http:// forums.finewoodworking.com/fi...and-bench-dead
(Remove the space after // when copying into your browser.)

I'll continue updates here as i make progress, slow as it might be.

Cheers,
Chris C.

[john brenton]

I don't think it's dead, I think it's just too complicated for most of us building our first bench...especially building it with only hand tools, even though that's the way they were built for centuries. It's actually not that complicated, but if you look at all the dovetails, moving parts, splines and careful planning, it seems like a daunting task.

I just put the finishing touches on my Holtz-ominy bench and I'm loving it...but the scandanavian bench is still a goal of mine. One of these days I would love to make a hardwood scandinavian bench with wooden vise screws, a traditional tail vise, and tusk tenoned stretchers...but that's out of my price range, time constraints, and experience level. It's also pure desire, not need, on my part. I don't think that style of bench is superior...it just looks so dang cool.

[Chuck Nickerson]

It'll be nice to have this build thread here.

I saw, but didn't post on the other thread. The KFS bench isn't dead, but every bench design involves trade-offs.
The KFS is ready to go for dovetailing (no clamping on your Moxon), but the shoulder vise does get in the way if
you're using handplanes to dimension longer stock. With more of us using handplanes to dimension stock, we're not
as willing to give up the last couple feet of the bench.

[Jim Koepke]

One often heard phrase comes to mind, "it takes a bench to build a bench."

Another phrase that should be heard, "it takes using a bench to know what one wants from their bench."

After a few years of using the same Sjöberg bench my desires are much better known.

One of the things I like most about my bench is the ability to remove the vise quickly.

Ways to overcome those things not liked about my bench are being considered and will be incorporated into my bench build.

The shoulder vise doesn't appeal to me since I often plane boards that are longer than my bench. A shoulder vise would make that very difficult. There are also times when my face vise is used to hold a piece of wood to be sawn at a point beyond the bench. Of course, different methods could be used for these tasks.

In my opinion, a bench should expand abilities, not limit them.

jtk

[David Keller NC]

Hello all,

Someone noted that everybody loves a thread on building a bench (just like you can't have too many clamps?). I'm planning to migrate this thread to SMC:

http:// forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/hand-tools/klausz-frid-scand-bench-dead

I'll continue updates here as i make progress, slow as it might be.

Cheers,
Chris C.

It might be worth noting that a "traditional northern european bench" isn't really what most folks think of. What is now thought of as the above is actually a traditional eurpean design that has been heavily modified to use less material and be faster to manufacture with machines (and therefore cheaper). It's debateable if those "improvements" actually benefit the woodworker rather than the manufacturer/retailer.

[Gary Curtis]

I was nearing the completion of a Scandinavian (Klausz-Frid) bench. 1990 plans from WoodCraft. Very stout bench. Got the base mortised & tenon done out of soft maple. The top is 8/8 European Beech. Already laminated. Two years ago when I read the series of stories in Popular Woodworking by Christopher Schwarz I stopped dead in my tracks. Sold the top, am scrapping the base, and the Veritas Face and Tail vises will be on eBay within a month.

I already made the mistake of buying a Sliding Tablesaw because I didn't match the task to the tool. Hell, I'm a hobbyist. And I like handtools and working at a bench. So I'll build the Ruobo bench from scratch. With a Wagon Vise and Leg Vise and Deadman. Schwarz beautifully breaks down all the varied tasks performed at a workbench. I won't be engaged in more than 40-50% of the jobs he itemizes, but it is clear from reading his book, a Klausz-Frid bench would be useful for only about 15% of those tasks. Some of them quite awkwardly. Moreover, having acquired detailed plans for that bench, some details — particularly mounting a tail vise — had my head spinning.

The Schwarz book is titled : Workbenches - from Design & Theory. A real eye-opener.

[Bryce Adams]

Schwarz beautifully breaks down all the varied tasks performed at a workbench. I won't be engaged in more than 40-50% of the jobs he itemizes, but it is clear from reading his book, a Klausz-Frid bench would be useful for only about 15% of those tasks. Some of them quite awkwardly.

Do you really believe that the Klausz/Frid Scandanavian type bench is only marginally useful for 15% of woodworking tasks? How do you imagine craftsman used these for so many years? How do you imagine a Tage Frid or Frank Klausz managed to make anything using such a bench?

I've got the lumber, face vise, and tail vise to build a Klausz/Frid bench as my 1st bench and will build it as soon as time permits.

Nothing wrong with a Roubo style bench, but I have a hard time believing the Klausz/Frid style can possibly be so inadequate.

[Gary Curtis]

Today is Thursday. I always exaggerate on Thursdays. Maybe not 15%. But here's where I was always 'cramped' while working on benches at the shops of friends. The face vise screw and guide rods always stopped me from clamping wide boards horizontally. Same for long boards vertically. And tail vises were useful, but the owners warned me repeatedly not to bang too hard with a chisel at the Tail Vise.

And the Trestle arrangement didn't make sense. When lots of lumber comes in wide and short dimensions, how do you clamp it to plane the edges? Trestles and recessed legs seem like a missed opportunity if clamping is your objective. Some folks have argued that a Ruobo bench is ideal for milling raw lumber, not furniture making. Perhaps some elaborate clamping is possible on the Scandinavian bench. And I've even tried some of it, but found it excessively time consuming.

[Roy Lindberry]

I'm in the planning/financing stages of my first bench build....and it will be a Klausz. I'm attracted to it for its aesthetics as well as it's apparent fit for the work which I do and want to do. It wouldn't be hard to add a sliding deadman to it, or you could build a "slave" such as Klausz uses when working the edges of longer stock.

[Matt Radtke]

I don't understand the hate the various bench styles get. I DO strongly advocate the Roubo design of a thick top with the legs flush to the front. At this point, you have the perfect platform to make it do whatever you want. Leave it as it or put on the vises you want. My base is actually a trestle style, I just made sure to bring the legs out front.

Mine has a tail (wagon, actually) and leg vice because they were both quick and dirty and let me get it done cheaply. My bench does have endcaps, so it would have been trivial do swap out one for a longer bit and I'd be over halfway to a shoulder vise.

The one thing I do not get is using a bench slave for longer stock. Pardon the flame-bait, but what I hear when people say stuff like that is, "I'd rather use a crutch just build a bench that actually works better." I speak specifically about legs being flush to the front of the bench.

[Tom Vanzant]

My bench is a lightweight, derived from a Lervad carver's bench, with a Klaus-style trestle frame under it and a couple hundred pounds of wheelweights as added weight on the lower shelf. The long stretchers are secured with bolts and cross- nuts. It has a full-width tail vise with dual rows of dogs, and a shoulder vise. Edge-planing longer pieces is with the shoulder vise and a clamped-on rest (slave) at the other end. Since I do not do large pieces, it works for me..... a Roubo would not

[Frank Drew]

What happens when Chris Schwarz has a change of heart and decides that some other bench design is cooler than the Roubo?

I made a Frid-Klausz style bench around 1982, and then used it professionally for almost twenty-five years making custom furniture; in all that time, I never felt that it didn't serve me well. I was luckier than many here in that I'd already worked at other benches so knew what I wanted, and what I didn't want (e.g. a tool trough).

The idea, though, that this well-considered and time-tested design will cease to be useful to woodworkers is, frankly, preposterous.

[Casey Gooding]

I have had this type of bench for years and it works great. Granted, mine is a user made type, not one of the lighter commercially available ones. It will handle almost all of my needs. Larger drawers can sometimes be a problem, but no bench is perfect. My only real wish is that I wish it was about two feet longer, but then I would have to sacrifice space.

[Chris Fournier]

What happens when Chris Schwarz has a change of heart and decides that some other bench design is cooler than the Roubo?

I made a Frid-Klausz style bench around 1982, and then used it professionally for almost twenty-five years making custom furniture; in all that time, I never felt that it didn't serve me well. I was luckier than many here in that I'd already worked at other benches so knew what I wanted, and what I didn't want (e.g. a tool trough).

The idea, though, that this well-considered and time-tested design will cease to be useful to woodworkers is, frankly, preposterous.

This is my sentiment exactly. It's pretty goofy to think that the bench used by an ex-pat European (traditionally trained to boot) woodworker - who actually gets paid to produce goods for sale - would be inadequate for anyone on this forum.

Why people have become so attached to the words of woodworking journos these days is beyond me. There are gerat writers out there indeed but not a one great enough to displace the example of a working master.

This whole "Roubo" fad is very odd. First I'd say that our definition of Roubo is about as useful and accurate as the phrase "new and improved" and secondly the Roubo was exceedingly primitive and had many well known failings given it's materials and construction. It has miraculously blossomed into the new and improved woodworker's bench these days. Golly!

If you feel strongly about flush front legs or certain vises I think that there is merit in discussing those topics but the freshly rebranded "Roubo" fervour is something I hope fades into the past as all trends do.

Now if you've built one and it works for you I think that that is fantastic and I hope that you get to do a lot of work on it and that you have the opportunity to build another bench down the road that may suit your woodworking needs even better. Use/refine/redesign can be a lot of fun.

[Jim Galvin]

I've always been intrigued over the workbench designs, especially how some people view them as altars and how others view them as what they are... a tool. Look at the simple benches at the North Bennett Street school and the work the comes off of them same as the scandinavian benches that were at RISD. I've seen Al Breed take out a cordless drill and screw a his auxillary carving bench to his workbench with drywall screws which he told me causes interesting looks from some woodworkers, and Phil Lowe has build some amazing stuff on his simple bench with just a Record vise and some handscrews.

I have read the books by Chris Schwarz on workbenches and I compare them to being like a thesis on the subject. Being an engineer by training I was taught theory in school but once I entered the real world I found out how things were built practically. I feel there is almost a cult like feeling towards the Roubo bench which if what one wants its fine.

Sharpening has the same kind of reverence with the Shapton stones.

Granted as hobbyists we have time to built the altars if we like or a simple bench but I would rather be building furniture then benches.

Just my views

Jim

[harry strasil]

I just built my bench to fit in what space I had for one and didn't follow or copy anyones design, just started putting it together with modifications as needed as it progressed. I have as many vises on one bench as some would have on several. But it fits the way I work and so far it has done everything I asked of it and then some. The vises I use the most are the leg vise and the Columbian clone of an Emmert. But the clamping method I prefer the most is the bench dogs and wedge system. Like has already been stated, a bench is just a tool, most likely the most used tool in a woodworking shop, but its still a tool. Just build it to suit yourself and put it to work, and ENJOY it.

Just my 2¢ worth.

[John Coloccia]

My Sjobergs Elite 2000 has flush legs. Does that make it a Roubo? LOL.

I happen to work at my local Woodcraft a few hours a week. I see LOTS of woodworkers of all level of skill, with all manner of interest...seasoned pros and amateurs alike. Know how many have ever heard of SMC? Not many. Know how many of them read the magazines? Not many. Ask your buddies who Sam Maloof is....Tage Frid....Frank Klausz....Roubo even. How about all the BORG woodworkers? Think they know they're not supposed to use saw horses, a piece of plywood and some squeeze clamps as a workbench? Shoot, if you screw a Harbor Freight vice to it you got a FANCY workbench. They sharpen their chisels on a grinder...no stones, no strops. I bet they don't even check the edges with a machinists square. The horror! :D

This reminds me of the stuff I read on the engineering message boards. Every so often there's the prediction of the death of C++, for example. ROFLMAO. The problem is that people like me, who make a living engineering as opposed to writing about engineering, drive which technology lives and dies and I have neither the time nor the will to get into a debate about which tools are most philosophically pleasing to theoreticians and/or "technologists" with an axe to grind (or a buck to make). Here again, most engineers do nothing at all with any of the message boards...I skim every so often (maybe once or twice a year) when I'm looking for an answer to a problem. I don't even have a membership anywhere.

So take what you read, including all of this, with a healthy dose of skepticism and go build the bench you want. This isn't the real world, and the magazines aren't the real world. In this little elite corner of the woodworking world we've built for ourselves (and really, as neanders we're sitting under a lint ball in the corner), we're all mostly full of hot air, at best....myself certainly included. These discussions are supposed to be fun and stimulating, and maybe even educational. Something has gone awry when we start feeling like our choice of workbench is inadequate because the woodworking cognoscenti say so.

[Frank Drew]

My only real wish is that I wish it was about two feet longer, but then I would have to sacrifice space.

You bring up an interesting point, Casey: I think for the most part we're designing and building (or buying) a bench for the workspace we're in at the moment, so it has to fit that particular space and work well with everything else that's going on in that space (tooling, workflow, etc.). It would be impractical to design a "perfect" bench for some imagined shop we might or might not move into somewhere in the future.

I agree with what Jim Galvin and others have said, in the traditional way of thinking the point really isn't the workbench, it's what the workbench allows us to do, or helps us to do. The bench is the means to an end, not the end in itself.

[Jim Koepke]

Tool tray or not tool tray, that is the question...

Leg vise, shoulder vise, twin screw too... Wagon vise, tail vise what's one to do?

A slab of wood, some sturdy legs
as long as it won't move
while planing stock,
rabbeting
or when I cut a groove

As long as one can do their work without fighting the bench the bench is fine.

There is not one bench for all. It is as individual a choice as one's preferred hand plane.

My father made a bench in the 1950's. It served him well into the 1990's. It didn't suit my needs so a friend now has it.

It was made for working on mechanical equipment. That is what it is mostly used for today.

The bench should be designed for the purpose and the person. The person and work should not need to be altered to accommodate the bench.

A shoulder vise doesn't fit my way of working. For others, my bench may not provide the features they need.

The bench of my design may have some features of one "famous named" bench or another, but I am not bothering to make it true to anyone's dreams but my own.

jtk

[Jared McMahon]

I made a few pretty complete plans for a Klausz-style bench before switching gears and doing the same with the Roubo design. I ended up making a very simple sturdy Roubo, which I'm very glad I did since my woodworking interests are still shifting substantially. Flexibility was near or at the top of my priority list and the bench I built fits the bill.

It seems like a person would be wise to look at the type of work they want to do and build the bench design that best facilitates that. But with that said, some of the furniture projects I would love to do aren't really useful and practical for me, they would just be really fun to do. You could look at a bench in the same way; if you want to make a Klausz bench because it looks fun, do it. If it doesn't fit your work style, sell it and build a different one.

And I have to contribute my own IT analogy. My last workplace was a very stayed and old-school academic environment, I worked with a bunch of UNIX gurus who thought Java was completely useless and worthless. Now I work in a Java shop and see it used extremely effectively for all kinds of things. Even if a particular tool is only marginally better suited to your needs than others, once you get good with it you can often find ways to tackle an impressive array of challenges.

This post is getting rambly, I'm gonna stop now.

[Roy Lindberry]

Hello all,

Someone noted that everybody loves a thread on building a bench (just like you can't have too many clamps?). I'm planning to migrate this thread to SMC:
http:// forums.finewoodworking.com/fi...and-bench-dead
(Remove the space after // when copying into your browser.)

I'll continue updates here as i make progress, slow as it might be.

Cheers,
Chris C.

Out of curiosity, does anybody here know how to pronounce "Tage Frid"? I can think of about six different ways it could go.

[John Coloccia]

Out of curiosity, does anybody here know how to pronounce "Tage Frid"? I can think of about six different ways it could go.

Close to "Tay Freed".

[Don Dorn]

Another phrase that should be heard, "it takes using a bench to know what one wants from their bench."

In my opinion, a bench should expand abilities, not limit them.

jtk

Agree completely. I'll never say that my current one is my last, but I"m pretty close. I'll move the face vice out to the end next time so I can cross cut from the front, but I built it based on the two statements you made. It's not a dead copy of an existing design, but rather what I need and use.

[Jim Foster]

I think if hand-cut dovetails and casework were my main wookworking effort, I would build a Klausz type bench. With the Roubo being one big clamp-able cube, it's more suited to all-around woodworking use.

[Casey Gooding]

I have heard that he pronounced it "Tay" like John posted. Everyone else I've met pronounced it "Tah-guh".

[Bob Lang]

I heard him explain it as rhyming with "Hey Kid"

Bob Lang

[Gary Curtis]

After reading this, I'm willing to reconsider on my attraction to the Roubu bench. If I wanted something more Scandinavian in concept, can you recommend a good book? (I have the Christopher Schwarz book). Schleining or Landis?

I'll restate my objections to traditional North Europe designs. Installing a Tail Vise looks intimidating. And people rant about Tail Vises being fragile and sagging.

And I get frustrated by the limited board capacity in a Front Vise.

[Roy Lindberry]

After reading this, I'm willing to reconsider on my attraction to the Roubu bench. If I wanted something more Scandinavian in concept, can you recommend a good book? (I have the Christopher Schwarz book). Schleining or Landis?

I'll restate my objections to traditional North Europe designs. Installing a Tail Vise looks intimidating. And people rant about Tail Vises being fragile and sagging.

And I get frustrated by the limited board capacity in a Front Vise.

Landis has a great chapter on the Klausz bench, along with dimensioned drawings in the back, and a broad overview of the build process.

[Richard Darjes]

If you want a tail vice that works take a look at the new Veritas tail vice from Lee Valley Tools. It is not traditional looking but it sure works - Konrad Sauer has one installed on a travelling bench he takes to wood shows. He has a blog entry from last fall (2010) about the bench and the vice at www.sauerandsteiner.com (http://www.sauerandsteiner.com) His bench has traditional looking legs. Another way you could go.

[Larry Williams]

... I like handtools and working at a bench. So I'll build the Ruobo bench from scratch. With a Wagon Vise and Leg Vise and Deadman. Schwarz beautifully breaks down all the varied tasks performed at a workbench. I won't be engaged in more than 40-50% of the jobs he itemizes, but it is clear from reading his book, a Klausz-Frid bench would be useful for only about 15% of those tasks. Some of them quite awkwardly. Moreover, having acquired detailed plans for that bench, some details — particularly mounting a tail vise — had my head spinning.

The Schwarz book is titled : Workbenches - from Design & Theory. A real eye-opener.

Actually, Roubo shows two benches. One for joiners (carpenters) and one for cabinet makers. Unfortunately the joiners' bench with an added "wagon vise" is the one that Chris has popularized. I've worked on a number of the new iterations of the "Roubo bench" and feel the traditional tail vise of a cabinetmaker's bench is far superior and versatile. I've attached an image of Roubo's cabinetmaker's bench.

202845

[Lori Kleinberg]

A few years back Woodworkers Journal did a build/comparison of benches between Klausz and one of their other writers (forgot name).
I promised myself I would build that Klausz bench someday.
I haven't built it yet, but still have the plan, somewhere, and still hope to build it someday.

[Larry Williams]

To add a little:

There's a reason for multiple dog holes in more recent cabinetmaker bench tail vises. There is, or should, be differential spacing of the dog holes between the bench and vise. The dog holes in my bench are 5" apart and the dogs in the vise are about 6 5/8" apart. This means I never have to move the vise much more than about 1 5/8" when changing lengths of cabinet stock no matter what the length as long as it'll fit between the dogs. It's always less than 8 turns of the vise screw. I suspect a lot of people aren't aware of this or have worked on some of the new mass produced benches that have the same dog spacing in the vise or bench top. I often use the vise faces of the tail vise for all kinds of things and I've struggled with round bench dogs too many times to like them.

[Gary Curtis]

Where can I get a set of measured drawings for a Klausz type bench? And what is the downside of having a Wagon Vise as opposed to a Tail Vise?

And would it be it be difficult to make the front legs flush with the top edge?

[Frank Drew]

Gary,

I got measured drawings (by Tage Frid) from FineWoodworking years ago; I think they're still available. His bench and Klausz' are very much the same in all important respects, as far as I can see; as already mentioned, the Landis workbench book details the construction of the Klausz bench pretty well. When I made my bench, I left out the tool trough that both Frid and Klausz suggest, since I'd worked at a bench with one and opted for more benchtop surface vs the dubious benefits of the trough.

If I understand a wagon vise correctly, it's fine for clamping work on your benchtop between dogs, but not as useful as a tail vise when you want more workholding options since the slot is so small.



I'll restate my objections to traditional North Europe designs. Installing a Tail Vise looks intimidating. And people rant about Tail Vises being fragile and sagging.

And I get frustrated by the limited board capacity in a Front Vise.

I guess I built and installed my tail vise correctly because it's certainly not fragile and it's never sagged.

Can you expand on your thinking that a front vise limits the board capacity? Do you mean a shoulder vise (as on the Frid/Klausz benches)?

[David Keller NC]

I'll restate my objections to traditional North Europe designs. Installing a Tail Vise looks intimidating. And people rant about Tail Vises being fragile and sagging.

And I get frustrated by the limited board capacity in a Front Vise.

Gary - There's little need to get intimidated by installing a tail vise, at least a commercial, partly metal tail vise. Even the inexpensive "scandanavian" tail vises that consist of two plates mounted perpendicular to the plate holding the vise screw nut is fairly straightforward to build and install. Considerably easier still is the new Lee Valley quick-release tail vise, and if you want dirt-simple, you can install a standard "Jorgensen" or "Record" design in the end (tail) vise position.

It is true that designing and assembling an all-wood tail vise can get quite complicated, but a lot of that is getting close tolerances among many wooden parts to ensure smooth operation. I have a historical interest in these, so I've built a couple, but most folks nowadays choose the easier metallic versions.

About tail-vise sagging: I've certainly found this to be true with the all-wood tail vises that I've made, but not the metal versions. Lie-Nielsen's new one even has gib screws for compensating for this, although if you're flattening your bench on any sort of regular basis, you're going to be re-leveling everything anyway as you take off material.

[Larry Williams]

Gary,

I use my tail vise a lot more than my shoulder vise. The vise faces I most often use are those on the tail vise.

Like David, I did have trouble with the heavily cantilevered tail vise sagging on the first bench I built. Since then I built four more benches and modified the design to eliminate the sag. I moved the legs at the tail back under the vise, it's easy to do. Two of the benches I built are portable and have a tail vise on each side so two people can work on one bench.

I do find the Frid/Klausz shoulder vise gets in the way at times because it sticks out so far. If I was building one again, I just use something like the old Record quick release vise. The shoulder vise I have is great for supporting a variety of fixtures though.

Yes, you could move the legs to the edge but I'm not sure of why this is needed. If you do, it's important to remember to keep the stretcher back away from the tail vise so that things clamped in the jaws can go all the way to the floor. If you're looking to install a sliding deadman it wouldn't be a difficult modification. I find I don't need that. For supporting longer stock in the shoulder vise, I just clamp a 2 X 4 vertically in the tail vise. This 2 X 4 is the same length of the height of the bench and has holes drilled a couple inches apart in its edge. I insert a short dowel in the appropriate hole to support the end of longer stock.

I might use Klausz's plans as a guideline but there are a number of changes I'd recommend. One other important one is the shape of the small land inside the bench dog holes. If you leave that parallel to the bench top as both Klausz and Frid show debris collects there and makes it impossible to set dogs level to the top. just angling that land at about 45º lets you keep that land clean by just removing and reinserting the dog.

I'm attaching photos of one of our portable benches with 2 tail vises and my bigger bench that I've been working on for around 15 years.

http://www.planemaker.com/photos/bench2.jpg

http://www.planemaker.com/photos/old-bench.jpg

[Chris Fournier]

If you take a look at Scott Landis' book check out Michael Fortunes hybrid Euro bench. Less muss and fuss than a classic Euro bench but that's a trade off too. I have built or helped build in my shop 6 of this style of bench and they are work horses.

In my opinion it is the projects that intimidate you that help you improve your woodworking. Intimidated, you take precautions, plan thoroughly and pay attention to processes. At the end of the journey you look down at something that you never thought you could build, yet now you can! Don't build a tail vise, build the process. You can dimension stock, hand cut joinery and assemble components already; in the right order you'll end up with a tail vise. Practicing new and difficult joinery on mule stock is a good idea.

[Gary Curtis]

Thanks all. First off, Amazon shows the publication date of the Landis book as 1998. Is that the latest and the greatest edition?

Tail vises. I believe I mentioned that I already have a Tail Vise and Front Vise from Lee Valley. Both were made in Eastern Europe. The Tail Vise has metal tracks. This is the old-style vise, not that new Veritas type.

Does anyone have a used set of bench plans they'd like to sell me? gary.curtis.s60@gmail.com

What you said about venturing into the unknown makes sense. Consider this. I'm starting a new shop from scratch. We have a phrase in aviation that describes me — 'task saturation'. Simply too many things to do stacked up! And some of them would really benefit from having a bench to work at. Have to build: 3 hanging wall tool cabinets, router table, sharpening bench, 20 feet of wall benches with lower shelves.

As far as building the legs out to the front edge in line with the top: in Architecture school they told us that 'broadening the base and lowering the center of gravity' lends stability.

[Matt Radtke]

Actually, Roubo shows two benches. One for joiners (carpenters) and one for cabinet makers. Unfortunately the joiners' bench with an added "wagon vise" is the one that Chris has popularized. I've worked on a number of the new iterations of the "Roubo bench" and feel the traditional tail vise of a cabinetmaker's bench is far superior and versatile. I've attached an image of Roubo's cabinetmaker's bench.


You've managed to point out what I was trying to say without the fighting words.

The Roubo bench is the perfect (imho) starting point. Though 'English' styles like Bob Rozaieski's and Harry's are just fine too. The big clamping cube, as others have said, is the biggest selling point to me.

Start there and add your vises per your requirements. There's nothing stopping you from slapping a shoulder and tail vise on a Roubo base. Or a twin screw. Or quick release.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Thanks all. First off, Amazon shows the publication date of the Landis book as 1998. Is that the latest and the greatest edition?...

The book's page displays all editions.

Pam

[Halgeir Wold]

Out of curiosity, does anybody here know how to pronounce "Tage Frid"? I can think of about six different ways it could go.


It's supposed to sound Tah-Geh Friid ( mute h's and a long i as the e in "be" ... )
Tage Frid is obviously a name of swedish origin - swedish and norwegian and closely related languages...

[Sean Hughto]

I love my Fortune/Nelson.

202982

[Frank Drew]

Does anyone have a used set of bench plans they'd like to sell me? gary.curtis.s60@gmail.com



Gary, if I can actually put my hands on my Tage Frid plans I'll gladly send them to you, free of charge; I have no idea where they are, though, so here's a place to start looking for a variety of plans and workbench ideas:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/workbench

[Halgeir Wold]

Here's another one ...quite extensive
http://www3.telus.net/steve_n_shelly/WW_files/WW_images/WW_workbench/workbenchwriteup.pdf

[Sean Miller]

Gorilla Glue has a set of plans for the Frank Klausz Workbench you can download for free.

http://www.gorillatough.com/Portals/0/pdfs/Project%20Plans/Project%20Plans%202/WJ102%20European%20Workbench%20FINAL.pdf

[Mark Dorman]

Lot's of information here.
http://www.workbenchdesign.net/index.html

[Chris Fournier]

I love my Fortune/Nelson.

202982

What species is your tail vise made out of Sean? I went with a similar colour scheme just because I thought it looked neat. I used Nara.

[Sean Hughto]

Yours looks like a brother to mine, fer sure.

My tail vise is padauk, which I believe is what the guys used in the book. I did vary from the plan in terms of making my legs and stretcher slightly larger and the top the size I liked, etc.

Like you I found that a rolling cart fits nicely under the ends:
203025

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

I've never used Klausz's bench (which I imagine would be exceptional), but I have used a modern "European", a Nicholson, and a Roubo extensively. The modern Euro benches have tail vises, which are really quite nice, I wish I had one on mine; a decent enough face vise; and are very questionable for planing the edges of long boards or door-type assemblies. Every time I needed to do that it was a huge production involving clamps way across the bench onto the tool tray (which also annoyed me, but it didn't irritate me nearly as much). In Landis's book, Klausz shows a board jack which goes in the tail vise, which would help a heck of a lot provided the board was long enough to reach.

The Nicholson, with its apron and the holdfast holes, handles doors and long boards with alacrity, although I would omit the crochet if I was to build another bench. I'm not really convinced about the merits of leg vises over conventional iron vises in the face position--always feels like six of one, half a dozen of the other to me. But I really miss that apron whenever I use another bench. It's really a joiner's bench, and since I lack power planing equipment, I end up needing that a lot. The usual criticism of the apron is that it largely prevents you from clamping directly to the top--I find holdfasts render this criticism moot.

My Roubo was flawed in a number of ways (thus I replaced it) but the core concept proved useful. I find for my work I prefer an apron, but flush legs helped a lot and the bench was massive enough to bore holes for holdfasts easily.

There are a number of blemishes in commercial benches that are not fundamental to the form--modern Euro benches don't have planing stops or holdfast holes, and they tend to be light enough to move around during vigorous planing. But these can be fixed relatively easily; the recessed leg design leading to awkwardness planing long boards is more fundamental. All the fixes I've seen for this defect either don't work with wide boards (in the case of boring holes for dogs into the meat of the bench) or don't work with short boards (in the case of the leg jack in the tail vise) or get in the way (in the case of a freestanding leg jack). It's not impossible to revive the form and make it useful, and certain aspects of it are really nice (tail vise comes to mind) but I haven't seen any such modifications really address the workholding issues.

[Halgeir Wold]

Hm.. some really nice bits of info here...

I think the style of bench we prefer is based partly on tradition and to some extent on the influence o fother writers on fora like this. The Ruobo is probably easier to build, and requiring less fiddly hardware than the Scandinavian design.
I think one's bench ideally needs to be adapted to the work . I can see a cabinet maker possibly wanting a wider bench than the joiner... it's also the first time I see the cabinet version of teh Ruobo - nice info...

The Scandinavian style bench is more of a universal or multipurpose bench - maybe not perfect for most tasks, but also quite suitable for most tasks. I grew up with these benches, as in the old norwegian educational system, there was 1 day a week with woodworking, from 4th to 7th grade. Most people those days ( around mid 60s) also added 1 year with a sort of continuance, where we had 1.5 day a week with woodworking, making quite advanced stuff, like cabinets, coffee tables etc.

I'm planning a new workshop, and a new bench, - Scandinavian style, but possibly trying to add a leg vise....
( I have some strange plans ahead... :-) )

What I'd really like to find, are some detailed plans of different end vises.... As I can no longer get simple stuff like vise screws or similar stuff over here, - at least not easily, I have to ponder a bit on what to do.
I can of course import the stuff I need, but expenses will be at least twice of what you guys pay... :-(

[Gary Curtis]

203053Here's what the folks at a Canadian Bed & Breakfast hotel did with their workbench. Not meant to be inflammatory. For years my only bench was a small model Sjoberg. It was wholly useless in the shop so my wife and I used it as a portable bar when we had parties. I'd park a Stanley #5 on top to provoke conversation. Never could make a darned thing on that bench.

[Chris Vandiver]

Halgeir,

Do you know of these benches? http://www.workbenches.se/modellma.php

[Halgeir Wold]

Those are some real beauties! Classic design, wooden screws and all! And No- I've never seen those before...swedish maker....
We also have a norwegian maker Hamran ... http://www.hamran.no/hamran/høvelbenker/snekkerbenk -
Prices for these range from appx 1600 - 2000$..... all birch..

As it happens, I have all the wood for my bench... I dismantled some large japanese transport crates at work. The framing was a to me unknown wood, -very light in colour, very little figure, but weight and hardness seems to close to birch...
I also got quite a number of large and heavy plywood pieces to make cabinets... good catch -
( closest I can get to dumpster diving around here.... :-) all hardwood have to be specially ordered - at astronomical prices compared to yours ,, )

[Chris Vandiver]

Helgeir,

I think Leif's benches go for around $1500.00 dollars. Might be worth a trip over to Sweden, just for the wooden vise screws, yes?

[Christopher Charles]

Hello all,

Thanks for all the good discussion. A couple of notes...

For those who want it all (or can't decide)...
http://woodtreks.com/design-build-traditional-woodworking-workbench-tail-shoulder-leg-vises/1651/

The Klausz article on the gorilla glue page above is an excellent resource. I also found this extensive write up by Steve Odut:
http://www3.telus.net/steve_n_shelly/WW_files/WW_images/WW_workbench/workbenchwriteup.pdf

This will be my second bench and my leanings toward the KFS bench stem in part from the fact that I don't do (or plan to do) much large case work dimensioning of stock with handtools. Mostly, i'll be doing joinery and prepping pieces for finishing--the bulk of the heavy lifting will be done by machine. I don't edge plane long boards very often at all. And, frankly, I think it's a better looking bench to my eye (and i'm blessed by the fact that this is a total luxury build-if I didn't already have a bench or if i needed to be making money, i'd definitely build a roubo and be done with it as i'm sure it would be a 20-40% faster build)

I'll post pics of my old bench and the german tail vise screw that recently arrived soon.

Cheers,
Chris C.

[Bill Moser]

Odut's bench, and write-up, are unbelievably good. I chose a much simpler design (Charlesworth's) for my bench. Chose -- yeah right -- it's what I could do. I'm glad to see that the Klausz design is not only alive, its looking better than ever.

[James Owen]

203053Here's what the folks at a Canadian Bed & Breakfast hotel did with their workbench. Not meant to be inflammatory. For years my only bench was a small model Sjoberg. It was wholly useless in the shop so my wife and I used it as a portable bar when we had parties. I'd park a Stanley #5 on top to provoke conversation. Never could make a darned thing on that bench.

LOVE IT!!!

My first bench, back when I didn't know any better, was the smallest Sjöbergs model -- it weighed a grand total of about 60 whole pounds. At first, I literally chased the bloody thing all over my shop when trying to hand plane, then finally stabilised it some with 100 lbs of sand bags on a couple of 2 x 4s across the trestles. After that, it worked ok, but not great. There's now a larger (and much heavier) bench in my shop, so the small one gets used for stuff that I don't want to do on the bigger bench (sharpening, metal work, etc).....

[Christopher Charles]

Howdy,

Here's an update that's barely on-topic, as the shop-, fence-, picnic- table builds are all taking precendence over direct progress on the bench. Nonetheless...

Last weekend did manage to haul my wood collection out of storage (my mother in-law's garage) to the new shop space. The wood is dominated by several hundred bf of 20 year air-dried local walnut upto 14" wide--here's a couple piles of fun waiting to happen...

204536204537

The lumber rack went up this morning and has mostly QS white oak from the Columbia River gorge soon to be a sofa table for a friend.

As promised, here's the old bench--it's been great and I was absolute thrilled to get it when I was a starving grad student. 6'x18" pine 2x3's. My wife found it for me for $25 when we were in upstate NY. Happily, i feel like I've outgrown it.

The bench screw is the German one from woodcraft and will become the tail vise. I'm planning to order a LN screw for the shoulder vise. Needless to say, the tail vise screw is a bit beefier than my current vise hardware.

204538

Finally, here are the slabs that will become the base and part of the top. Mostly elm from a local park. I managed to mark these out before we started moving and I'm planning to rough cut them as soon as I get the rewiring done in a couple weeks (after I double-check the measurements!).

204540

Cheers,
Chris C.

[Christopher Charles]

Hello all,

I've made substantial progress since my last workbench post, with some twists and turns to boot. I'll post a series of updates over the next couple of days.

The biggest twist is that I've ended up going the route of a Roubo with a BC wagon vise. This was a challenging decision, but one that I made for two very specific reasons:

1) the wagon vise will allow the bench to be as long as can be and still fit into the space I have planned for it (thanks to Derek for pointing out this consideration)

2) I will use the bench above for dovetailing and other work after moving the end vise to the front with a new chop to make a large twin screw vise and raising the height a couple inches. This is the set up Jim Toplin shows in one of his recent books.

If I was only able to have a single bench, I would have gone with a LN tail vise (and still second guess this choice periodically; I still shudder to think of the karmic consequences of not following Larry Williams advise (no pun intended, really)). The economics were a consideration as well, but I was very fortunate to have two separate fine friends who gifted me wood for the base and top, so the difference in price of hardware was easier to justify. The gift of wood also played a role as the Roubo requires more lumber and if I'd been paying, I would have gone the less expensive route. Finally, time was also a bit of a factor, as I perceived that the Roubo would take less time to build (may or may not be true and over the course of years, any difference I would consider trivial in the end).

The wood for the base came as two 4.5" x ~ 20" x 10' slabs of elm. I helped mill these as green logs salvaged from our local city park and then let them sit for three year (while making all the decisions above...), moved them to a new house and chased them around the new shop for almost a year. Here are a few shots of the process of breaking down the slabs.

263295263296

[Jim Koepke]

Wow, that is a nice hunk of wood.

I have one piece about as thick but only about 5' long. Been thinking about making some short legs for it and making a shaving/carving bench.

jtk

[Zach Dillinger]

The very first thing I built once I got serious about woodworking was a Klausz-Frid workbench. I even made the wooden screws with one of those Woodcraft tap and die sets (1"... I didn't know any better at the time). I still get a lot of use out of it. It is my in-the-basement bench so that I can work in the winter. It's only 5 feet long or so and not the most stable thing in the world (due to my lack of skill at the time, not an inherent flaw of the bench). I'll get pics if someone wants, but trust me its ugly.

[Chris Hachet]

I don't think it's dead, I think it's just too complicated for most of us building our first bench...especially building it with only hand tools, even though that's the way they were built for centuries. It's actually not that complicated, but if you look at all the dovetails, moving parts, splines and careful planning, it seems like a daunting task.

I just put the finishing touches on my Holtz-ominy bench and I'm loving it...but the scandanavian bench is still a goal of mine. One of these days I would love to make a hardwood scandinavian bench with wooden vise screws, a traditional tail vise, and tusk tenoned stretchers...but that's out of my price range, time constraints, and experience level. It's also pure desire, not need, on my part. I don't think that style of bench is superior...it just looks so dang cool.

agree with you on this, it is on my bucket list to build one!

[Chris Hachet]

Gary,

I use my tail vise a lot more than my shoulder vise. The vise faces I most often use are those on the tail vise.

Like David, I did have trouble with the heavily cantilevered tail vise sagging on the first bench I built. Since then I built four more benches and modified the design to eliminate the sag. I moved the legs at the tail back under the vise, it's easy to do. Two of the benches I built are portable and have a tail vise on each side so two people can work on one bench.

I do find the Frid/Klausz shoulder vise gets in the way at times because it sticks out so far. If I was building one again, I just use something like the old Record quick release vise. The shoulder vise I have is great for supporting a variety of fixtures though.

Yes, you could move the legs to the edge but I'm not sure of why this is needed. If you do, it's important to remember to keep the stretcher back away from the tail vise so that things clamped in the jaws can go all the way to the floor. If you're looking to install a sliding deadman it wouldn't be a difficult modification. I find I don't need that. For supporting longer stock in the shoulder vise, I just clamp a 2 X 4 vertically in the tail vise. This 2 X 4 is the same length of the height of the bench and has holes drilled a couple inches apart in its edge. I insert a short dowel in the appropriate hole to support the end of longer stock.

I might use Klausz's plans as a guideline but there are a number of changes I'd recommend. One other important one is the shape of the small land inside the bench dog holes. If you leave that parallel to the bench top as both Klausz and Frid show debris collects there and makes it impossible to set dogs level to the top. just angling that land at about 45º lets you keep that land clean by just removing and reinserting the dog.

I'm attaching photos of one of our portable benches with 2 tail vises and my bigger bench that I've been working on for around 15 years.

http://www.planemaker.com/photos/bench2.jpg

http://www.planemaker.com/photos/old-bench.jpg

Very nice work...interesting that you would go with the record style front vise...I have thought of taking that route, but I think it would be more difficult to dovetail with that arrangement...but a lot easier to build...!

[Chris Hachet]

I love my Fortune/Nelson.

202982.

A very motivational photograph for me...a lot of the visual bang of the euro bench, with a nice simple record style front vise arrangement....eye candy!

[Mike Holbrook]

"Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking" Book 3 Furnituremaking, Chapter 3, Furniture to Make Furniture, Workbench- 19 pages of text drawings etc. on how Tage built his workbench. Interesting to me that Tage's bench is only about 60" long x 12" wide.

I had the pleasure of attending a few of the seminars Tage did at Highland Woodworking. He was not a big guy and he did a fair amount of sawing with a bow saw standing up in a position that allowed him to use his entire body. It may also be of interest to know that according to Tage's book he came up with his bench design to solve the issue of suitable benches for students to use in the first woodworking school he worked in in the US. Apparently they made a bench for every graduate student, sometimes doing "production" runs of 15 benches a time in the space of a few days. I suspect that the cost of the hard maple to make these benches and the space constraints in a school influenced the design. The design was apparently similar to the one Tage worked on at the school he apprenticed at. Klausz may have learned on a similar bench so this design may be a classic design built by or for students in the type of schools these two woodworkers learned in.

I think John has the pronunciation of his name pretty close.

[Chris Hachet]

"Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking" Book 3 Furnituremaking, Chapter 3, Furniture to Make Furniture, Workbench- 19 pages of text drawings etc. on how Tage built his workbench. Interesting to me that Tage's bench is only about 60" long x 12" wide.

I had the pleasure of attending a few of the seminars Tage did at Highland Woodworking. He was not a big guy and he did a fair amount of sawing with a bow saw standing up in a position that allowed him to use his entire body. It may also be of interest to know that according to Tage's book he came up with his bench design to solve the issue of suitable benches for students to use in the first woodworking school he worked in in the US. Apparently they made a bench for every graduate student, sometimes doing "production" runs of 15 benches a time in the space of a few days. I suspect that the cost of the hard maple to make these benches and the space constraints in a school influenced the design. The design was apparently similar to the one Tage worked on at the school he apprenticed at. Klausz may have learned on a similar bench so this design may be a classic design built by or for students in the type of schools these two woodworkers learned in.

I think John has the pronunciation of his name pretty close.

Interestingly, this smaller size is kind of what I am after...thanks for the reference!

[Christopher Charles]

Howdy,

After breaking down the base and lots of milling, I was surprised to see how small the piles of parts were compared to the slabs. Being pressed for time, most of the joinery for the base was completed with power tools, though everything was fitted with planes. I started breaking down the slabs last November and had the base dry fitted in late Feb.

Cheers,
C

263769263771263772

[David Weaver]

Goodness...nothing at all wrong with doing joinery with power tools. Especially on what is essentially a large piece of shop hardware.

Looks good so far.

[Chris Hachet]

Goodness...nothing at all wrong with doing joinery with power tools. Especially on what is essentially a large piece of shop hardware.

Looks good so far.
The voice of rational reason...thank you for this post!

[Christopher Charles]

As promised, here are a few shots of the doweling plate. The backing board is a piece of scrap American cherry and the clearance holes were drilled oversize to let the dowels clear. I did not counter bore the plate itself and barely did anything to flatten the face. Works like a charm with rived stock and I also found it to be a remarkably therapeutic activity. Not sure if the benefits came from release of aggression or a harking back to pounding wooden pegs on a toy workbench....

Cheers,
C

263831263832263833

[Chris Hachet]

Wonder how many people here in this forum actually also use power tools?

[Bob Lang]

The productive ones and the honest ones.

Bob Lang

[Zach Dillinger]

The productive ones and the honest ones.

Bob Lang

Ouch :)

I'm sure there are others here who are productive and honest.

[David Weaver]

I'm sure there are a few also. I do use power tools any time I have to build something someone else wants me to build, though. That's the honest part. The items that please me the most are the ones that were made completely by hand, though. And the process pleases me the most, too, all the way down to ripping boards.

[Winton Applegate]

Wonder how many people here in this forum actually also use power tools?
Every single one of us use power tools.
Don't take me toooooo seriously when I get all about the hand tools.
After all it is the hand tool forum and I am getting in the spirit of the thing and encouraging new bench makers to enjoy themselves here.
I do feel strongly that it is worth learning to make with hand tools FIRST and that helps understand how to get the most out of the machines when being efficient.

[David Paulsen]

I don't have a single power tool in my shop. (except an old drill press that runs on some voltage that I don't have access too, and therefore it just stands there, and looks handsome)

[Hilton Ralphs]

What's the verdict on using different wood species for the slab? I want to build a 21st Century bench but I can't afford the fancy maple or beech for the entire top. Would everything go pear-shaped if I use say maple/beech/ash for just the first two or three laminations including the vise and then something less expensive for the rest of the slab?

What's more important, density, grain or colour?

Fanx.

[Zach Dillinger]

Every single one of us use power tools.


Many of us don't use power tools at all.

[Winton Applegate]

Many of us don't use power tools at all.

I must say I am shocked. I have done some resawing of the mucho hard woods with a custom made frame saw, that I made my self with an extremely sharp slightly modified three or four tooth (I forget which now it has been years) bandsaw blade over four feet long. Similar to the two man saw you have probably seen Frank Klausz and his brother using in the photo "for old times sake".
I am very fit. Used to running marathons, 100 and 200 mile bike rides in a day. Pump iron. Horse stance for ten minutes. You get the picture.

Resawing. I can do that. Right ? Make the frame saw. NICE SAW !

Slow going, only really practical with two people at that. I'm talking bubinga, purple heart, oak etc., all of it six or eight feet long, ten inches wide.
Oh sure, I'll resaw by hand little walnut planks six inches wide and a couple of feet long all day. But I find the other stuff just silly difficult and inaccurate and wasteful of such expensive wood.
Love my Laguna bandsaw !
A must have.

You guys are TOUGH ! (or you are sawing green wood)

PS: before that I was using the most monster Japanese saw I could find. A giant saw I refiled from the combination tooth pattern to rip.
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product/156300/1512-Sakimaru-Willow-Leaf-Pattern-Log-Saw--Hikoza.aspx
Of coarse I have the prerequisite 6 tooth rip panel saw. Nope.
I couldn't find anything with fewer teeth back then.
263926263927

[Christopher Charles]

Hello again,

Milling the legs and the joinery was straightforward (combination of dado, d/p, chisels, auger, shoulder plane). Lined everything up, carefully labeled everything, got a pile of dowels ready and fired up the low rent glue pot...


264166264167


264168264169

glop, glop, clamp, clamp, glop, bang, glob, bang and it was all together.

Looked great until I went to lay on the ship-lapped shelves and discovered that I had milled the groove for the ledger strip on the wrong side of the lower rail (I did get the orientation correct during glue up; just that my labels were wrong...). The result was the ledger strips on the front and back rail were at the proper height, while the sides were ~2" too low. The correct height can be seen on the left side of the left photo below. So, I milled up two filler pieces, added a couple pieces of flair

264170264171

and then covered them with the shelves (at least I'll know they're under there)...
264172
(shown with a preview of 1/2 of the top).

Cheers,
C

[Chris Hachet]

Keep those pics coming...I am going to finish a couple of already started projects before I start the bench, but seeing your work is getting me excited about starting.

[Christopher Charles]

Well, with kid projects (wooden maces, knife making; what could be better?) and other summer fun:


267566

progress on the bench has been slow. Nonetheless, I now have the top nearly complete, including the routing of the dog hole strip. One interesting bit in the BC design is that the dog holes can be backed by a 3/8" strip for the length of the bench to make the wagon vise gap wide enough, or a rabbet can be cut in the right hand end of the bench to do the same. The dimensions for my lumber worked out such that it was easier to mill the rabbet, which has the aesthetic advantage that the boards in the top remain approximately the same width rather than having a thin strip in the mix. A couple of pieces of scrap helped support the router:

267567267568

VERY happy to have the dog hole strip and this rabbet milled as the shavings and dust went everywhere!

[Tony Shea]

Beautiful rainbow trout!! It is interesting that his spots are abundant in his rear than his head area. But a great fish none the less. And on a fly rod I see, good to see. I am fairly jealous of where you live. Some of my absolute best fishing was on the Green River in Utah and your rainbow reminds me of the fish we caught all day there. It got a little busy there which is unfortunate as I usually like nice secluded areas but the incredible fishing made up for the fact. Every fish we pulled in was huge and beautiful. Oh and your bench is nice too!

[Christopher Charles]

Thanks Tony! Actually the fish is a westslope cutthroat trout (the state fish of Idaho), hence the difference in spotting. I do feel blessed to be here, though that fish is four hours away. And in contrast to the places I've lived on the east coast, I'm more than an hour from any good fishable water.

[Tony Shea]

My mistake Chris, a pretty stupid one at that. Here I am a fishing nut and I missed that id on the fish. I was going to suggest say it looked like a cutthroat but didn't want to sound stupid but still managed to do so. Either way you westerners really do have some beautiful fish. That's not to say we don't but I do catching your rainbows, browns, and cuts an awful lot. Our fish are very technical to catch and require a near perfect imitation for them to take. But it has done a lot for my tying abilities, but now everyone is begging me for them.

We have some great brook trout that are a blast to catch and of course plenty of landlocked salmon.

I am in the same situation Chris, decent fishing holes are a bit of a drive for me. But they are well worth it.

[Chris Hachet]

Well, with kid projects (wooden maces, knife making; what could be better?) and other summer fun:


267566

progress on the bench has been slow. Nonetheless, I now have the top nearly complete, including the routing of the dog hole strip. One interesting bit in the BC design is that the dog holes can be backed by a 3/8" strip for the length of the bench to make the wagon vise gap wide enough, or a rabbet can be cut in the right hand end of the bench to do the same. The dimensions for my lumber worked out such that it was easier to mill the rabbet, which has the aesthetic advantage that the boards in the top remain approximately the same width rather than having a thin strip in the mix. A couple of pieces of scrap helped support the router:

267567267568

VERY happy to have the dog hole strip and this rabbet milled as the shavings and dust went everywhere!Summer has slowed me down a little bit, but glad your making progress!

[Christopher Charles]

As fall has approached, I feel like I can see the light at the end of the tunnel of this project... Skipping back a bit, I milled the hard maple for the top using a bandsaw, 6" jointer and lunchbox planer (dw735). Touched up the faces with a #7 and several glue-ups later, I had two slabs a dog hole strip and the front strip of the top to later be dovetail to the endcap.

270726270727270728

I then flattened one face enough to run each slab through the planer using my #3 "scrub" and a #5:

270729270730270731

I decided on a full width end cap. A minor lapse in measuring with the router meant I got to glue a shim onto the tenons, but o.k. in the end:

270732

[Christopher Charles]

Hello all,

Having some trouble with keeping the thread for this post linear-- a few ended up in a side thread here:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?169730-Is-the-Klausz-Frid-Scand-Bench-Dead/page2&p=2117349



At any rate, the bench is being built more or less following the BC plans, with the leg vise being the major deviation, and perhaps of the most interest to those here. I had purchased the German bench screw from woodcraft prior to staring the project (~$70), but did buy the roller kit from Benchcrafted. Then, I found this while at a local salvage yard.

271970

For $10, I figured I'd give it a shot. I did some quick work with a file to make four flats to register the square hole on the wheel, added some shimming to account for a larger opening on the back side of the opening, and had a bit of machining done at the local machine shop to make the shaft long enough to fit all the way through the wheel. The wheel is held by the original pin, though the photo on the right is prior to the machining.

271971271972271973


A couple of more modifications were needed. First, I machined a bushing out of leftover HDPE plastic. I think the bore was a single shaving of plastic, but I didn't pull it apart to find out!

271974271975

I also had to mill out a space in the upper stretcher for the vise nut on the back of the leg because the nut is different that the BC hardware and because I made the stretchers oversize on my bench. Fortunately, I realized the need for this prior to assembling the base!

271977

And then for a test drive prior to assembly :)
271978

[Christopher Charles]

Hello all,

Having some trouble with keeping the thread for this post linear (I was having a hard time finding where I left off...clicking on 'last' sends to a dead end here: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?169730-Is-the-Klausz-Frid-Scand-Bench-Dead/page2&p=2117349). And somehow a few recent posts ended up in a side thread and responses have been oddly silent. Are folks seeing this?

Thanks,
Chris C.



At any rate, the bench is being built more or less following the BC plans, with the leg vise being the major deviation, and perhaps of the most interest to those here. I had purchased the German bench screw from woodcraft prior to staring the project (~$70), but did buy the roller kit from Benchcrafted. Then, I found this while at a local salvage yard.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271970&d=1380562409&thumb=1 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271970&d=1380562409)

For $10, I figured I'd give it a shot. I did some quick work with a file to make four flats to register the square hole on the wheel, added some shimming to account for a larger opening on the back side of the opening, and had a bit of machining done at the local machine shop to make the shaft long enough to fit all the way through the wheel. The wheel is held by the original pin, though the photo on the right is prior to the machining.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271971&d=1380562675&thumb=1 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271971&d=1380562675)http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271972&d=1380562677&thumb=1 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271972&d=1380562677)http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271973&d=1380562678&thumb=1 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271973&d=1380562678)


A couple of more modifications were needed. First, I machined a bushing out of leftover HDPE plastic. I think the bore was a single shaving of plastic, but I didn't pull it apart to find out!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271974&d=1380562796&thumb=1 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271974&d=1380562796)http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271975&d=1380562798&thumb=1 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271975&d=1380562798)

I also had to mill out a space in the upper stretcher for the vise nut on the back of the leg because the nut is different that the BC hardware and because I made the stretchers oversize on my bench. Fortunately, I realized the need for this prior to assembling the base!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271977&d=1380562954&thumb=1 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271977&d=1380562954)

And then for a test drive prior to assembly :)
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271978&d=1380563012&thumb=1 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=271978&d=1380563012)

[Christopher Charles]

Hello again,

I'm still having trouble posting to the end of the thread so it shows as the last of the pages. Any suggestions?

Cheers,
C

[Chris Griggs]

Hello again,

I'm still having trouble posting to the end of the thread so it shows as the last of the pages. Any suggestions?

Cheers,
C

Probably just your display setting. Go up to the display dropdown and select "switch to linear mode". That's how I keep mine setup and so everything shows up in chronological order for me.

[Christopher Charles]

Perfect, thanks.

C

[Christopher Charles]

Well the next step was to add the end-cap, which I made as a full-width piece in case I later decide to go "split-not" top roubo. All was going well until the dry fit. The first attempt is the left half, the correction is on the right:

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I also decided to cure the hardware using linseed oil (unboiled) and did 2 coats. The curing gave a nice bronze tone, a warm texture and what seems to be (most importantly) substantial rust protection.

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Fitting the tailvise is definitely a fiddly proposition, but worth the effort. Some invisible shims saved the day. Have also milled the benchdogs, assembled and fit the leg vise, and all that remains it to level the base and flatten the top.

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Thus far the very early experiences with the new bench and vises have indicated that i'm in the process of a quantum leap over my previous set up (~6' pine bench that was too tall with 2 standard metal face vises). Once done, I'll post some final shots along with a wrap-up analysis including costs, etc.

Cheers,
Chris C.

[Christopher Charles]

Hello all,

Here's part of a final analysis on my bench:

9/1/2008 Woodmizered elm slabs thanks to a friend
7/19/2011 Leg vise screw (woodcraft) $70
10/16/2012 Began breaking down elm slabs
11/1/2012 BC tailvise, bench bolts, plans and leg glide guides $469
11/7/2012 Maple for benchtop (gift from friend)
4/1/2013 Handwheel from salvage yard $10
4/1/2013 Machining for leg vise screw $35
5/1/2013 Small hardware (lag screws, endcap bolts, brass screws for bench dogs) $15
6/1/2013 Boiled linseed oil $5
5/1/2013 Gift certif. to friend who gave me lumber $75
Total cost, direct materials $679
Weight 385 lbs.
Price / pound $1.76

Indirect costs
Router bit $30
Bandsaw blade $37
Planer blades ~$30
Dowel plate 0

Power tools I used (ranked by importance)
Band saw (processing raw slabs and rough milling legs)
Planer
Jointer (rough milled lumber)
Router
Drill Press (mortising, vise fitting)
Table Saw (leg tenons w dado head)

Total hours: ~100, cut by 20%-40% if using dimensional lumber

Note that the timeline was stretched by a move, kids, demanding job, etc. etc... That and I'm no Derek Cohen (yet :))

Hope that's helpful; final pictures and more thoughts to come sometime over the holidays.

Cheers,
Chris C.

[Tony Wilkins]

Like the dovetail detail.

So update us please, how's she working for you.

[Christopher Charles]

I finally got around to taking some shots of the finished bench while moving the entire shop around to put down some OSB on the floor. The bench is normally spun around 180 degrees from that shown in the first photo.

So far, I've had no issues whatsoever. In particular, having a decent face vise (wagon vise) with _good_ bench dogs has been a game changer. Definitely have no desire to go back to round bench dogs.

The sofa table in the photos is a WIP, the second project off the bench. The first was a small Odate style japanese toolbox with a couple of trays for my son, who collects feather. In other words, his "dovetail box".

Two questions for the long term will be whether I'll regret not having used a traditional tail vise instead of the wagon vise and how long before I add a chain or criss cross to the leg vise.

Thanks to all for the feedback and encouragement.

Cheers,
Chris C
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[Tony Wilkins]

Very nice - beautiful and functional looking. Please do keep us updated on how it works for you.

[Michael Peet]

Nice-looking workspace and great bench. I wish I had somewhere to burn the mountains of scrap I accumulate.

Also, I love the giant wheel you have on the leg vise. Enjoy it!

Mike

[Winton Applegate]

I like the big'O hand wheel !
Fun !
And look at all those dogs. Nice to have.

[Christopher Charles]

Thanks Mike and Winton. I did forget to mention that the wheel is fabulous. And doing a big batch of dogs seemed like the way to go in the long run.

Cheers,
C

[Jim Koepke]

Nice looking bench.

Is the wheel available commercially or was it just a lucky find?

I do not see a handle for the wagon vise.

I made a batch of dogs and like them so much I make a few more when the chance presents itself.

My current bench uses round dogs. I can see some advantages to square dogs. Maybe we should have a thread just for folks to voice their reasons for preferring one or the other.

jtk

[george wilson]

He said he found the big wheel in a junk yard. Go back a page or 2 to see the round handle for the wagon vise. For some reason I just read this whole thread!

[Christopher Charles]

Hello Jim and George,

Opps, forgot the tail vise pic.

And George is correct, the hand wheel came from a salvage yard in town that specializes in re-purposing building materials and it is larger than most. I think it is 9" dia.

One thing that I'd definitely do again is to cure the handwheels and threads with flaxseed oil. Gives a wonderful, warm feel like a good coat of wax and added a great bronze tone. Worked so well that i'm tempted to try on a metal plane as rust-proofing. Anyone tried?

Cheers,
C

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[Zach Dillinger]

Hello Jim and George,

Opps, forgot the tail vise pic.

And George is correct, the hand wheel came from a salvage yard in town that specializes in re-purposing building materials and it is larger than most. I think it is 9" dia.

One thing that I'd definitely do again is to cure the handwheels and threads with flaxseed oil. Gives a wonderful, warm feel like a good coat of wax and added a great bronze tone. Worked so well that i'm tempted to try on a metal plane as rust-proofing. Anyone tried?

Cheers,
C

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Dunno, but you season cast-iron cookware with oil and heat so I suspect it will work.

[george wilson]

I would not put flax seed oil on your planes. If it dries(are you referring to EDIBLE flax seed oil?),it will stay a little gummy,and might wear off in little balls and be a nuisance. Frankly,I don't know if edible flax seed oil dries. It will if you heat it up to simmering for about 20 minutes. That starts polymerization. I used to use it in varnish making because it is much clearer than hardware store linseed oils.

[Jim Koepke]

He said he found the big wheel in a junk yard. Go back a page or 2 to see the round handle for the wagon vise. For some reason I just read this whole thread!

Oops!!!

I likely read it before, but the thread is getting a bit aged, like my memory.

jtk

[Christopher Charles]

Hello George,

Yes, I used edible flaxseed oil and cured in the oven, the same way one would cure a new cast iron pan. The finish is very hard after cooking. It's pretty dry here and I don't have a big issue with rust, but might be fun to try, so long as cooking at 500 F won't warp the tool.

Cheers,
C

[Christopher Charles]

Hello Jim,

The thread is getting pretty aged as well--it's been a long process :)

C

[Christopher Charles]

Hello all,

Brief update. For better or worse, I decided to "unsplit" my split-top bench. After 3 years, I did not once pull out the spacer and use it as a split top, though will admit that I haven't been in the shop much during the last year and a half. The gap, well, it just bugged me. So I milled a snug fitting gap, glued all three pieces together and decided it was a good time to re-flatten the top and do a bit of other tuning up. As a process, the split-top is a great one and I was able to do all of the work myself except a flipping of the top after it was completely glued together. Thus, I would build as a split top again, with a final jointing as I did in the end.

Here are a couple of shots, including a ~1/16" benchtop onthe floor in front of the stove.

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[Brian Holcombe]

Nice looking bench!

[Reinis Kanders]

Nice bench.
On the other hand I use my spacer gap quite often as a planing stop or crosscutting stop or sometimes I remove it and then use the gap for clamps. Mine is the setup to be a bit less than 1/2 inch above the bench when in the elevated position.

[Christopher Charles]

Thanks Brian! I took the other fork in the road and built a Roubo rather than scand bench after much hand wringing, as documented in this (long) thread. After all the back and forth, I must say that I'm pleased as a peach with my bench, but there is something about the aesthetics of a scand bench that still has a strong pull. If I were to build another, I might go the other way. And a scand bench would be most likely if I could only have one bench (I have a second bench slated to have a dedicated dovetailing vise).

Best,
Chris

[Christopher Charles]

Thanks Reinis! Glad to hear you're finding a split top useful.

[Robert Engel]

Nope, not dead.

Yes, complicated build!!

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[Christopher Charles]

Hello Robert,

That's a beauty! I'm sure you're pleased with it. Is the tail vise wooden/traditional?

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Brian! I took the other fork in the road and built a Roubo rather than scand bench after much hand wringing, as documented in this (long) thread. After all the back and forth, I must say that I'm pleased as a peach with my bench, but there is something about the aesthetics of a scand bench that still has a strong pull. If I were to build another, I might go the other way. And a scand bench would be most likely if I could only have one bench (I have a second bench slated to have a dedicated dovetailing vise).

Best,
Chris

The shoulder vise is really handy to have for dovetail work. Other than that I think the Roubo has many advantages over it. If I had room for another bench I'd probably shrink down my scandi bench (and make it a little more traditional) and build a Roubo.

[Robert Engel]

Hello Robert,

That's a beauty! I'm sure you're pleased with it. Is the tail vise wooden/traditional?Yes it is.

[Christopher Charles]

Robert, my hat is off to you. I stared at plans for that vise for a long while, but in the end went with a metal vise.

Brian, sounds like the answer is simple. We both 'need' two benches and the culture war can end :)

[Robert Engel]

Robert, my hat is off to you. I stared at plans for that vise for a long while, but in the end went with a metal vise.

Brian, sounds like the answer is simple. We both 'need' two benches and the culture war can end :)

So did I LOL!! Mostly did it for the challenge. I actually think a wagon vise is more practical.

Don't know how many times I walked away from it during the build.
I guess the tail vise too about as long as the whole top.

[Christopher Charles]

Double good on you then for sticking it through. Interesting to hear that you think a wagon vise would be more practical; I've wondered the opposite :) My only lingering doubt is whether I would be getting more use out of a traditional (metal) tail vise. I nearly ordered the LN one. That said, thus far I haven't encountered any real issue and don't really anticipate one. The BC install was a bit fiddly, but straightforward.

[Robert Engel]

Christopher,

I think it depends on what you do. I can't really think of any advantage of a tail vise over a wagon visel
Main difference is building/installation is much easier. You still have vertical clamping ability, just not as wide.
Of course, an endvise can accomplish the same thing.

One could opt for a double vise or moxon as a substitute for a shoulder vise.

I don't use the vise part of the tail vise as much as I thought I would.

In the end I chose the traditional tail vise because I wanted to stay true the original bench + the challenge.

[William Fretwell]

The Klaus/Frid bench style is my favourite. I hope it's not dead but this thread is 'slow'! I am building one but changed the tail vise design making it twice as long. The 7' 1" bench takes it well. Doubling the tail vise length does several things:

1) It keeps most work in the middle of the bench. Clamping starts nearer the middle and grows with the work.
2) It lets you move the tail vise leg under the vise without compromising clamping; this is BIG because it stops the bench hanging out so far and keeps the leg out of your feet.
3) It moves the tail vise mouth closer to the shoulder vise to hold long boards for edge planning in a more useful way.
4) It reduces tail vise droop, at 13 inches extension droop is 1/8". When you clamp there is no droop.
5) You have more space above the stretchers to add tool storage if required.
6) You loose nothing by doing this and it's not much extra work.
7) It reduces binding of the guide rails to the extent that the second rail is hardly needed but I kept it for the look, but I tested it without.

This modification adds to the Klaus/Frid design and works for a larger bench. I can't help but think most people building a bench forget that a captured tail vise adds nothing to the length of the bench and you loose the massive jaws; both are huge benefits.

Yes the traditional tail vise looks intimidating and does involve real woodwork but break it down and you can build it. Once you have, it makes furniture look simple!

Lots of bench threads and articles start with 'easy', 'simple', 'poor mans', all scream compromise! A place to start but not something to aspire to; a bench that will never have a peer.

People starting out compromise on most things; tools, a bench and space. That is normal but if you aspire to some of the modern benches with restrictive front vise hardware, captive tail vises, twin screw gizmos etc. you are missing out! If you are sure that's all you need then fine but I for one can't predict what I may make down the road. If it's just the 'scary' tail vise putting you off then embrace that fear and build the damn thing. When you do you will look at it and say "that's firkin gorgeous" and it works!

Keeping the Klaus/Frid bench alive and better.

[Christopher Charles]

Hello William,

Glad to hear you're building a Scand bench. Would love to see some pictures, even as WIP. I agree that folks shouldn't hesitate to go Scand with a tail vise.

Best,
Chris

[Glen Canaday]

I'd like pics, too.

I never did see how well that elm worked, Chris. That stuff does not break, how does it hold up to abuse?

[Chris Hachet]

Nice seeing sixths thread come back from the dead...I love that style of workbench....

[Christopher Charles]

Hello Glen,

The elm has worked out great, no issues at all. In fact, I'm working on a couple of tables from the same tree. I'd recommend elm to anyone who can get it for a good price for such an application. I also made a nice side table from some of the bench scrap a while back. An underrated wood, assuming one can get straight grained stock. Will tear out like the devil if not using sharp tools/properly set chip breaker though.

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[William Fretwell]

349496
Hi Chris,
I started putting oil on the top, legs and tool tray not attached yet. Found some black walnut at a good price due to knots & cracks etc. Fine for a work bench. Legs are oak, feet cherry, tool tray cherry. Tail vise faces are 5" square. I used all those odd, unusual lumps of wood I've collected. Each hole has a fitted dog of mahogany with a rounded shoulder so it does not fall through. The holes angle at 2 degrees in the bench body and 3 degrees in the vice just in case there was more play but there is not!
There are three fitted dogs in the back edge of the bench as well for panel/door construction. Apron is 5 inches deep.

[William Fretwell]

Two shots showing the classic construction (but steel thread) of the support/guide rails. The construction is straightforward but precise. The tail vise is about 30 inches long so the rails are longer. The underside of the bench top was only planed where it needed to be to keep as much wood as possible.
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[William Fretwell]

To add a little:

There's a reason for multiple dog holes in more recent cabinetmaker bench tail vises. There is, or should, be differential spacing of the dog holes between the bench and vise. The dog holes in my bench are 5" apart and the dogs in the vise are about 6 5/8" apart. This means I never have to move the vise much more than about 1 5/8" when changing lengths of cabinet stock no matter what the length as long as it'll fit between the dogs. It's always less than 8 turns of the vise screw. I suspect a lot of people aren't aware of this or have worked on some of the new mass produced benches that have the same dog spacing in the vise or bench top. I often use the vise faces of the tail vise for all kinds of things and I've struggled with round bench dogs too many times to like them.

I find this misleading. The real reason for multiple dog holes in the tail vise is to keep as much vise under the work as possible; not so you can have differential spacing. You want the wood supported as solidly as possible so you keep it over the bench dog holes as much as possible. This means the first dog hole in the end vise gets the lions share of the work.
If you do the maths, differential spacing increases turns at the longer end of the bench range. With 5 inch dog spacing in the bench and 4 & 7/8" spacing in the tail vise I average at most 12 turns to clamp because you leave the vise where it was; which is typically open half a dog hole width and you don't have to change two dogs! Building furniture, you plane say 4 sides of four legs with 1 turn of movement. In this example extra turns occur after 16 operations of the tail vise, not so terrible!

Your differential spacing gives you fewer dog holes in the vise, in a manufactured bench this would look like they were cutting costs to a customer.

Regular spacing based on maintaining structural integrity between holes (3.5" of wood in my bench) gives you as many holes as possible to keep the work piece off the vise. It minimises turns at the long end of the bench range when the work encroaches on the vise. I considered differential spacing for my bench but rejected it based on the above.

[Christopher Charles]

Hello all,

After a couple of years using the BC roller design, I decided to upgrade the leg vise. I went back and forth between a criss-cross and Anchora Yatch Designs chain vise. I decided on the chain vise b/c I didn't want to make a new vise chop. When retrofitting the BC roller design (as spec'ed in the original split-top BC bench), a new chop needs to be built because the criss cross requires a longer chop extending to near the floor. And the $s were about the same.

I must say the chain vise is a clever design and well-executed package. I went with the 'middle' package that included one set of angle brackets for the lower roller. The upper roller was mortised into the bench after a hole was bored for the chain. Rather than take my bench apart, I used a guide block and auger to bore the hole and did the mortising by hand from under the bench. In retrospect, the latter would have been a bit easier if I'd taken the trouble to at least tip the bench onto it's front face.

I've been using the vise a bit since January and am very impressed as it is a marked improvement over the traditional vise with roller (which were fiddly). My thanks to Jim for his efforts and a clever design, and for Derek for posting his experience and review.

Best,
C

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[Jim Ritter]

Your welcome Christopher. Nice use of the guide block for drilling the hole square.
Jim

[Graham Haydon]

Hand wheel is pretty special. Great work.

[Christopher Charles]

Thanks Graham, I've been very pleased with it. And the chain vise continues to work flawlessly.

Best,
Chris

[Robert Engel]

Something I would do differently is the spacing of the dog holes in the tail vise. I followed Klauzs' recommended spacing and I've found some degree of aggravation in that.

Maybe about 2/3 the distance apart as the bench holes would reduce cranking. I'm contemplating boring a couple holes for some pop up dogs.

Of course you could opt for the quick release screw.

[William Fretwell]

203053Here's what the folks at a Canadian Bed & Breakfast hotel did with their workbench. Not meant to be inflammatory. For years my only bench was a small model Sjoberg. It was wholly useless in the shop so my wife and I used it as a portable bar when we had parties. I'd park a Stanley #5 on top to provoke conversation. Never could make a darned thing on that bench.

Yes I stayed there for my sons graduation! I took photos of the underneath of the tail vise out of interest. It was easier then as it was turned around the other way and off the wall.

[Eric Keller]

I copied the Scandanavian design in the Scott Landis workbench book, was that the Klausz design? Anyway, I do think that having a little different spacing on the tail vise than the bench is nice. I think my spacing is pretty much the same. I like the design, I like the face vise, but of course the tail vise gets the biggest workout. I need to tune mine up, it has been in service for almost 25 years now. I'm scheming to put a cabinet underneath it, I really need the storage space.

[William Fretwell]

I took the basic design in Tage Frid's book and changed it in several ways. I used inexpensive metal screws to get lots of movement.
I made mine longer so I can make house doors. I doubled the length of the tail vise which achieves lots of things:

You can move the leg beyond the tail vise opening and incorporate pegs on the leg to hold long boards for doors.
It moves your standing position more towards the middle of the bench so your feet clear the right leg and improves stability.
It eliminates droop of the tail vise.
It increases storage space for a cabinet under the bench some day.
The tail vise looks super cool and when open 13" (the max) you only see wood at the back of the opening.

If you double the tail vise length you will need to use the simple screw hardware, the expensive hardware won't really work so you save money!

Mine is 38.5" tall, the trestle legs are very substantial. I liked the Scandinavian concept but designed my own not using any books or plans. I can draw stuff in my head. The wood you have dictates how it will go also.

Dog spacing on mine is slightly different on the tail vise but not much. I did the maths and it offered a little advantage at the small sizes but not the far end of the range. You want the work over the main bench until you have to move it to the right so you use the end dog almost all the time.

My shoulder vise is substantial with 8" of usable space and serious holding power with no flex. I was pleasantly surprised with how solid it is.

I have 3 dog holes at the back of the bench also for panel work.

The thought process during building has been the most fun part, my engineer son will inherit it someday and then appreciate the thought I put in.

[Christopher Charles]

Hi all,

One of the cool things about SMC is zombie threads can live a long time!

Realized a couple days ago that I 'finished' this work bench exactly ten years ago, which got me reflecting.

The bench was my second and the first I built. The design is a slightly modified BC split top. I glued the halves together after a couple years and have no regrets. Jim's chain vise still works great, as does the BC wagon vise. I've also since added a Moxon made with Tom's hardware and souped it up with inspiration from Derek.

Has seen a move to a new shop, one or two major projects a year, and a whole bunch of little projects. The quick projects with family are probably my favorites, including bending a street sign that one of my sons (very teenage at the time) turned into a skid plate for under his Subaru. A few random shots from over the years:

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Was a bloody lot of work and took a long time. I remain grateful for all the inspiration and guidance from folks here and encourage anyone to build that bench--any bench--if you're thinking about it. While the Roubo craze seems to be waning a bit, whatever design you use, it will be great for somethings and less good at others. Would I change things now? A couple, but I have no regrets at all and the design is a fantastic all-around bench, especially when paired with a Moxon.

And I was moving wood around a couple weeks ago and it got me thinking about building a joinery bench...(the sickness is real).

Best,
Chris

[Eric Brown]

As long as work can be done, every workbench is good. Technique will develop around the limitations of a workbench. Where there is a will there is a way. My own bench has served me well and not many changes come to mind. Probably the one thing I would change is the hole locations on the skirts. They should have been offset from the top holes to avoid interference. I would definitely keep the Tucker vice and the adjust-a-bench legs. The next person to get my bench will have no problem with the height. Here is my bench:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?102856-WorkBench-by-Eric-Brown-Comments-welcome&highlight=

[Mark Rainey]

that is a fine bench Chris!

[Christopher Charles]

Eric, I fully agree-my first bench was pretty spectacularly bad in comparison! And while traveling or visiting family and faced with a task, I've been surprised at how little a functional bench needs to be. Would love a Tucker vise--too bad (and a bit surprising) that there's not a solid pattern maker's vise still available.

Thanks Mark!