SAWSTOP Industrial vs UNISAW - Sliders Excluded

[tim walker]

Went to one of the local WW stores here in Houston (big city so we have choices)// Looking at 52" saws. I have read all the postings on SS vs Uni Vs Sliders. I love the safety aspect of the SS. BUT, I am 66" tall and the Delta with mobile base installed was about 1 1/2" taller than SS with mobile base, advantage Delta. The blade angle adjuster on the SS is located on the side, kindof a pain. The angle gauge is an old style gauge. The Delat is in front and has a clock style gauge, adv Delta. Dust coolection, out of the box advantage SS, but one can easily be built for the Delta. Safety -SS.

The look and build of the Delta Unisaw just seemed better to me. And Delta has been around for some time longert than SS.

Any comments appreciated.

[Cary Falk]

I don't have a dog in this fight either way but here are my thoughts.
1.5" height difference is easily made up with a platform between the saw and mobile base.
The angle gauge of the Delta is only accurate to a 1/10 of a degree. I don't have the Delta but I never use the gauge on mine.
Delta has and the Unisaw has been around for a long time but the new Unisaw is a new design. Delta just got sold off. I would consider this a wash.

Both are nice saws.

[Prashun Patel]

I have a Sawstop.

IMHO, the ergomic advantages of the Unisaw are minor compared to the safety and dc advantages of the Sawstop.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Tim, as Cary has said, this isn't the old Delta company, it's a new mostly offshore endeavour.

If you're looking at spending that amount of money, the SS is a no brainer in my opinion due to the safety improvement.

Both machines seem to be about equal in build, so the SS safety feature tips the decision in that direction.

Regards, Rod.

[Neil Brooks]

I'm knee-deep in the same decision process, and have YET to find a single (non-political) reason NOT to go with the SS.

I'm eyeing the 5HP ICS with the 52" rails, mobile base, and overhead dust collector.

But .... if you're in the market for a PM2000, a Uni, or a SS ... you won't be buying a bad saw, whichever one you choose ... IMO.

[Paul McGaha]

Hi Tim,

The good news is that there are a lot of good choices out there for a 52" cabinet saw.

The Sawstop not only has the safety feature but by all the reviews I've seen is a very good saw not counting the safety feature.

I'd throw the Powermatic PM-2000 in the mix. Some of my best tools are from Powermatic.

Dont know if you need anything else but the Grizzly equal would probably save you enough to purchase another tool like a jointer or planer if you need an upgrade.

Just my $.02.

PHM

[Prashun Patel]

Here are some other things to think about:

a Grizzly G0691 will be 2/3 the price, which will give you plenty of $$ for aftermarket niceties like a great miter gauge or even a sliding table and an overarm guard/dust collector.

I've also discovered 2 not-so-nice things about the Sawstop:

1) Misfires are not all that uncommon. Contact with a metal miter gauge (DAMHIKT), hitting nails in wood, etc can cause the brake to fire. This will require a new cartridge AND a new blade.

2) The standard brake does not accomodate an 8" dado stack; that requires a special brake. So, if you like cutting dados on yr table saw - and for $3000, who wouldn't? - know that in addition to messing with shims and chippers, you'll have to change the brake and then change it back when you want to cut with a 10" blade.

Factor these probable maintenence costs into your decision.

[joe milana]

They're both just cabinet saws. Pick one and in time you will discover the weakness in either one. The laminated plywood fence faces on the SS suck. I spent many hours shimming with playing cards, tape, etc trying to get them flat and square. The rubber edging they use on the fence faces causes the wood to swell, so those should be removed and the fence faces trimmed down. The little UHMW pads the fence rides on wear, so check your alignment from time to time. Not sure, but I believe the uni has the same fence design. An extruded aluminum fence is a much better way to go IMO. As far as cross cutting, there is not a decent miter gauge on the market. They're just too flimsy. Look at an old oliver or northfield and you will see what I mean. Plan on building a sled (or two, or three...). Heck, I'd throw PM into the mix and toss a three sided coin...and go make some sawdust.

PS: I'd take a serious look at the Hammer listed in the classified section and also on the Bay. Good luck with your decision!

[tim walker]

But couldn't you install an 8" dado stack without the brake and it would be the same as any other saw?

[brian watson]

The sawstop brake is made in the USA, the blade in China, the rest in Taiwan. So one component communist china, which if you've got an issue with you certainly can buy one made somewhere else.

[brian watson]

1) I would not consider contact with a piece of metal a misfire. A misfire would be it just going off for no reason. The metal will conduct the electrical current so it should fire. If it doesn't its not working.

2) It takes a very small amount of additional time to change the brake. Less than a minute.

[Prashun Patel]

No. The saw will not run without a brake correctly installed. You can run the saw in bypass mode so the brake won't fire, but it still must be installed correctly for the saw to even power on.

[David Kumm]

I think the Delta is assembled in the US of parts sourced overseas. If you want an American made machine go to the Woodweb Machinery exchange and look at the used saws for sale. Sawstop technology aside, $3000 in a used saw gets you build quality way above the current offerings. Dave

[Brian Loran]

I recently went through this same decision. I went with the Delta. Bigger table with the blade further back, stouter trunnion design, better riving knife and blade guard, takes 8" dado without additional cartridge swap, US motor (and a lot of other parts are US as well), assembled in US. No regrets.

[Doug Colombo]

I recently went through this same decision. I went with the Delta. Bigger table with the blade further back, stouter trunnion design, better riving knife and blade guard, takes 8" dado without additional cartridge swap, US motor (and a lot of other parts are US as well), assembled in US. No regrets.

+1 for Delta. As Brian, I also just went through the same decision and also purchased the Delta Unisaw for many of the same reasons. As he states, the saw is assembled in the US, and talking to the Delta rep, the major castings are also cast / machined here in the US. The table board assembly is, IMO, more robust then the one I saw on the SS at Woodcraft. Having the riving knife release lever on the front of the saw is great - you can easily move the knife to the lower position for a non-through cut without tools or any hassle. Split blade guard is also very easy to use. I have never looked back on my decision to purchase the Delta.

[Bob Falk]

I have owned both and I prefer the SS for the safety aspect (in fact, I sold the Unisaw to buy the SS). I am tall (6'5") and any geometry difference is unnoticed by me. I am actually thinking of buying an older cheap Unisaw again and dedicating it solely to dadoing and use the SS for all other operations. Relatively, dadoing is a pretty safe operation and IMO doesn't really require the SS safety feature.....a dedicated Unisaw would avoid having to change the blades and cartridge in the SS every time I want to do a dado. My $0.02 bob

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I will remind everyone .....political statements, comments, debates or discussions are not allowed here. Please refrain from doing same.

[Joe Angrisani]

Aww... C'mon Ken. You gotta admit that was a good one.

[Craig Kalkman]

I bought the SS for two reasons. First is safety. Are you really willing to risk a finger for the dollar difference or the other minor operational differences? NOBODY intends to have the accident, EVERYBODY swears they will pay attention so it doesn't happen to them, but a lot of woodworkers are a digit short on their hands.
Second, I wanted to use the Incra fence, and they sell the SS ala carte, so you can buy everything except the SS fence and buy the Incra fence separately. I LOVE the Incra fence. Take a look at it before you decide. By the way, I've used Delta, Jet and Powermatic and I'll put the SS Industrial against any one of them for quality and accuracy.

[Steven Hsieh]

How do people get their fingers near the blade?

Our woodworking school is forced to replaced all 10 delta unisaws and replaced with sawstop.

Due to liability issue.

Most of the instructors don't care for its brake technology, but we all love the riving knife:D

[Homer Faucett]

I have had a SawStop ICS for quite some time--actually, since before it was called the ICS, since it was the only saw that they were selling. I bought it for the safety features, namely the brake and riving knife, and I have been very pleased with the performance and build.

However, everyone weighs features differently. For me, while the PM2000 and the New Uni are nice machines, I would not have spent the money for them, as you can find a nice Grizzly with a riving knife that will get the job done for much less. For me, the blade brake technology was the deciding factor, and it was something I can't get on another saw. I would suggest you consider what the features are worth to you, and pull the trigger. No one else can make that decision for you. Either way, you'll have a great saw, I have no doubt.

Good luck.

[Julian Tracy]

There was a sawstop on the local CL around here for $1800 - seemed like a great deal to me.

JT

[David Hostetler]

While I don't care for the methods the SawStop inventor is using to try to advance his invention, I do like the machines. The SawStop is a well reviewed saw, and in every way the equal to, or superior of the new UniSaw. With the minor differences in price, if it were me, I would go with the SawStop...

[Will Rowland]

For the OP, I noticed during my lunchtime Houston Craiglist perusal that there is a brand-new 5 hp Unisaw for sale with a "make offer" price:

http://houston.craigslist.org/tls/2500198197.html

I have an older 52" Unisaw, which I love, but if I were in the same position today I would probably go with a Sawstop, purely on the basis of safety.

[Chris Tsutsui]

203031

Here's a cheesy shot of the sawstop trunion I took on saturday at the vegas AWFS show.

I video taped their brake firing demo. It scared the crap out of me because I was right next to the operator and it sounds like somebody takes a sledge hammer and whacks your saw table.

I learned that Sawstop is developing a slider that has new brake technology that saves the blade.

The downside is it will probably be 2013 before it hits the streets...

As much as I love the sawstop, I say get the Unisaw "if" you want simplistic heavy duty design. The sawstop risks mis-fires and is seemingly more complicated and might not be the same saw in 10-20 years where I suspect the unisaw will be the same in 10-20 years. Only time will tell though...

[Jim Neeley]

Hi Tim, as Cary has said, this isn't the old Delta company, it's a new mostly offshore endeavour.

Regards, Rod.

Hold it, guys.. This saw was designed by the old company and the new company hasn't been in place long enough to make "improvements".

I bought one of the new Unis when they first came out and they're a heckuva saw. Your point on new owners will be key on my concerns for new models but for established models, in the short term, I don't see it as an issue.

I have nothing bad to say about the SawStop either.

[Cary Falk]

Hold it, guys.. This saw was designed by the old company and the new company hasn't been in place long enough to make "improvements".

I bought one of the new Unis when they first came out and they're a heckuva saw. Your point on new owners will be key on my concerns for new models but for established models, in the short term, I don't see it as an issue.

I have nothing bad to say about the SawStop either.

Jim,
My comment was mainly concerning parts availability. People are always concerned if you will be able to get brakes down the road. Delta has been bought and sold so many times and recently sold to an Asian company that it is anybody's guess how long parts will be available.
Cary

[Matt Hutchinson]

I have worked part time at a Woodcraft store for a few years now. We've had a SS - ICS and the Unisaw on our floor ever since they hit the market, and the store workshop has an ICS that I have used a good bit.

The SS fence is great, but as stated previously the fence faces are lousy. Be prepare to fiddle with them....a lot. Also, as the pad on the underside of the fence wears it WILL put permanent streaks across the cast iron top. Doesn't noticeably dig in, but I recently had a customer who wasn't thrilled with this. SS cannot be turned back on while the blade is coasting down. You HAVE to wait until it stops before restarting. Also, you can only use a 10" blade. Sounds odd to be a downside, but there can be clear benefits to using smaller blades for certain specialty cutting processes.

I really like the engineering changes on the Unisaw. The front lever to adjust the riving knife, more table in front of the blade, and front mounted wheels...all good stuff. The fence deflects quite easily, and this is a clear weakness on the Uni. Plus, if I recall correctly, the Beisemeyer fence can't be adjusted for squareness to the table, only parallel to the slot/blade.

As for angle setting accuracy on either saw, I always use a digital angle gauge now so it's not much of a consideration.

I am a big fan of high quality blade guards. I think both the SS and Uni have done a nice job in this department.

Overall, I don't think you'd be disappointed with either.

Hutch

P.S. From a safety standpoint, I wish I could have a brake on my current old style Unisaw when using a dado blade. A stacked dado set is a meat grinder. If anything touches it, it's gone....period.

[Mark Engel]

Sliders excluded, huh? Too bad.

If safety is a major consideration (as it always should be), sliders are inherently safer to use vs a standard cabinet saw. And no 'destroy the blade' brake needed.

[Don Bullock]

I don't have a dog in this fight either way but here are my thoughts.
1.5" height difference is easily made up with a platform between the saw and mobile base.
The angle gauge of the Delta is only accurate to a 1/10 of a degree. I don't have the Delta but I never use the gauge on mine.
Delta has and the Unisaw has been around for a long time but the new Unisaw is a new design. Delta just got sold off. I would consider this a wash.

Both are nice saws.


I have a Sawstop.

IMHO, the ergomic advantages of the Unisaw are minor compared to the safety and dc advantages of the Sawstop.

+1 for both of these replies. Yes, I am the owner of a SawStop and I think it's a great saw. I wouldn't recommend anything else.