Forrest WWII 40 tooth VS. New 48 tooth

[Ted Baca]

Since I have recently lost my trusty old WWII to my SawStop mis-firing (my opinion not SS's) I am faced with an opportunity to buy a new blade. I have been using the WWII 40 tooth for years with satisfactory results and am debating between the 40 and new 48 tooth. My concern is will the higher tooth count be more prone to load up or get hot. So if anyone that has used both, would share your experience, I could use some feedback. I do crosscutting, ripping of mostly 1" or less but on occassion some thicker material. I do have a 40 tooth that is my back up that I keep for use when sharpening the other blade. Any input is appreciated.

[scott spencer]

Ted - Forrest doesn't fill me in on such things, but I suspect that the 48T WWII was introduced to compete with the Infinity Super General and Freud Fusion, which are both 40T Hi-ATB grinds with dual side grinds that have performed admirably against the 40T WWII in recent comparisons. They're both general purpose blades but have exceptional cross cut and ply cutting abilities and leave a very highly polished edge on all cuts. While they'll rip very cleanly, their weakness is in thick ripping where they're more prone to burning. In theory, the 48T WWII should have similar characteristics (cleaner cross cuts and ply cuts, cleaner rip cuts but more tendency to burn in thicker cuts), so it should suit your needs well, but I haven't tried one yet so can't say from hands on experience. It'd be a good idea to use a 24T bulk ripper or even the 30T WWII for rips over 1.5".

[Ted Baca]

Scott, I tend to agree with you on the expected performance. As mentioned I do have a 40T which was a spare, and I am thinking that 48T would be of benefit and I do need to look at adding a 30T for ripping. I really don't have a good ripping blade I have always used the 40T and I do get some burning. SO I must decide if I can afford both in one purchase. Forrestblades online has some good prices and free shipping and it seems like a good time to buy. Hopefully someone will chime in that has used both. It is too new to have any reviews yet.

[David Nelson1]

I know this is a bit off subject from what the OP intended, but I have been using the 24 tooth Forest WWII for rips. I have a 1.5 HP craftsman and prior to this blade I was bogging and burning using a Freud glue line ripper in anything over say 5/8-3/4" oak. I'm pretty happy with this blade but I do have to pace the cut still.

[Prashun Patel]

I know the Forrests get great reviews, but I think there are a lot of other good "Combination" blades at a fraction of the price that will crosscut cleanly and deliver reasonable ripping quality. Especially if yr willing to invest in a decent 24-30t rip blade, having a super premium combo blade isn't so critical (IMHO).

In fact, the thing I like about some of the other combo blades is that they have an ATB*R* grind. That raker tooth leaves a flat bottom, which is great if you have to make a quick dado and would rather rip-and-bump with the combo blade instead of installing a dado stack.

[Doug Morgan]

Since I have recently lost my trusty old WWII to my SawStop mis-firing (my opinion not SS's) I am faced with an opportunity to buy a new blade. I have been using the WWII 40 tooth for years with satisfactory results and am debating between the 40 and new 48 tooth. My concern is will the higher tooth count be more prone to load up or get hot. So if anyone that has used both, would share your experience, I could use some feedback. I do crosscutting, ripping of mostly 1" or less but on occassion some thicker material. I do have a 40 tooth that is my back up that I keep for use when sharpening the other blade. Any input is appreciated.

I had a miss fire from my Saw Stop. My saw wasn't even up to speed when the brake engaged. I was upset to say the least. My Forest Woodworker II was dug into the brake and I was upset. I don't know if you have been told this but take packing tape and line the inside of the brake. The wood may not be wet enough to trigger the system but it builds up on the brake and can cause a misfire. Another common issue was the adjustment for the gap from the brake to the blade. If its on the very edge it may take some time but will cause a misfire. Measure your gap then decrease the gap by 1/32".

[Ted Baca]

Thanks Doug, I didn't ever think of adding the tape and making that clearance adjustment. It was the original cartridge and maybe the original SS blade and the Forrest are different in diameter. Now here's the rest of the story: A 23ga. pin was in the MDF and Cherry blank I was cutting. The MDF is 1.25" with a .25" cherry overlay. The pin was still in the board, SawStop claims that the debris from that pin got lodges between the blade and the brake. I don't agree as the pin was in tact and in the MDF and in no way was grounded. About a year ago I accidentially cut through a board with a deckscrew in it and saw sparks but no blade brake trigger. I think the addition of a insulating layer of tape sounds like a very feasible solution, and will add that now that the brake is new. Great idea and thanks for sharing. Prashun, thank you, call me anal but I have been so happy with Forrest blades I won't run any other brands. I started with them when I had a Craftsman Contractors TS and swear it added power to the saw. I am one of those brand loyal guys. And Forrest blades and sharpening have served me well.
I have looked at the other brands and read the reviews but this horse has gotten me cross stream to many times.

[David Kumm]

Ted, Watch ebay and CL for odd tooth forrest blades as they often go pretty reasonable. Even with the cost of sharpening, $50 isn't too big a risk. Dado blades can also be a good deal as they are seldom used very hard by hobby guys. Dave

[scott spencer]

....In fact, the thing I like about some of the other combo blades is that they have an ATB*R* grind. That raker tooth leaves a flat bottom, which is great if you have to make a quick dado and would rather rip-and-bump with the combo blade instead of installing a dado stack.

Prashun - I agree that there are other outstanding general purpose blades that will rival, or even eclipse the WWII (sometimes for a lot less), and that the ATB/R leaves a "flatter" bottom, but it's not truly flat. The raker tooth would leave a flat bottom if it were all by itself, but in order for the ATB teeth to be effective they must protrude slightly above the flat raker, which in turn leaves slight grooves (aka "bat ears") along the outside of the kerf...much like those on most dado sets. It can be pretty small, but it's there.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSk-KwS3gz9KYh_Ha5ymBbRzOZSecri8V2fk7r7MrteX_BwuUTV&t=1 http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawparts/Saw%20Blades/ATB-R_profile.jpg

[Prashun Patel]

Scott, yes, you are (as usual ;)) correct. However, the batwings are miniscule and clean up easy with a swipe of sandpaper or even a chisel. With the ATB grinds, the wings are slightly larger. They take a little more care to clean up.

Here's a question for you, Scott: Do the combo blades in the 50 tooth range use this ATB/R grind and the deeper gullets every couple inches to combat heat and make them more efficient rippers?

[scott spencer]

...Here's a question for you, Scott: Do the combo blades in the 50 tooth range use this ATB/R grind and the deeper gullets every couple inches to combat heat and make them more efficient rippers?

Not sure why they do what they do for sure, but the combination grind has been around a while and supposedly gives two possible cutting strengths....ATB teeth slice more cleanly in crosscuts, and the flat raker is more efficient for ripping. In theory, the larger gullet between the groupings of teeth helps remove the larger chips from rips, but there's a finite amount of area around the perimeter of a 10" blade, so the gullets between the ATB teeth are smaller because of it, so I'm not sure how much they really gain in gullet area overall, if any.

Wood Mag's tests a couple of years ago stated that the modern premium 40T ATB general purpose blades tended to rip more efficiently plus leave a cleaner cut than the 50T ATB/R grinds, which is consistent with my experience in general, but that's not an absolute, there are exceptions, and there are also several contributing aspects to the term "cleaner cut". There's also never a free lunch....as a generalization, the better 40T ATB general purpose blades tend have tighter side clearance geometry than most of the better 50T ATB/R blades, which in turn gives them a more polished edge when things are optimized. However, anytime a blade gives a more polished edge it'll also be more prone to burning and more sensitive of setup, material, feed rate, and several other factors... it's just the physics of it. The 50T ATB/R blades tend to have more generous side clearance geometries so they don't tend to polish the edges as much....this gives them a tendency to leave slightly more pronounced swirl marks than the typical premium 40T ATB blades, but it also makes them more forgiving of other situations, which makes them very easy to get good results with. Both are very versatile and are capable of clean cuts and glue ready edges, so the differences between the better examples of each is less significant than these type of discussions might indicate, but it's always interesting nonetheless.

[eugene thomas]

as to watch ebay. i think forrest is in same catagory as lie nielsen. they go so close to retail price that almost better to buy new than to save maybe if lucky 10% in buying used.

[David Kumm]

Eugene, you may be correct about 10" forrest blades. I generally buy 12-14" which are discounted pretty heavily over new. You are close to Woodworker Toolworks so you have access to a great sharpening service as well. Dave