Grizzly owners...

[Joe Unni]

Well - I've finally out grown my basement shop (just a year doing this thing professionally) and have moved into 2600 sq ft in an old mill - wide open - lot's of natural light - and the price was right.

With this new space, I'm now looking to round out my shop with three new machines - jointer, planer and bandsaw. Have not had thus far. I've been buying S4S lumber - really quite limiting and expensive.

Thus far I've been doing built-ins, book cases, entertainment units etc. But I'm beginning to promote the furniture side of things.

I'd really like to get the most value for my money - that's why I'm turning to Grizzly.

Budget...I'm thinking of the $500-$700 range per machine.

Could you please provide any insight and/or experiences with Grizzly as I'm a very motivated buyer and will probably be placing an order within a week.

Thanks in advance,
-joe
Unni WoodWorks

[Kent Cori]

Joe,

2600 SF?! :eek: Wow, that's bigger than many homes. You are a lucky dog! :cool:

I have a Griz 1023SL cabinet saw, a 1182HW 6" jointer and the 0555 BS. I am more than happy with each of these units. About the only change I would make is to go to an 8" jointer but I don't have the room needed in my garage shop. I certainly intend to buy more Griz stationary tools in the future.

Have fun spending your $$$!

[Richard Ferment]

I only own one Grizzly machine GO500 8" jointer it has a 4 blade cutter head and a 75" table the long bed realy helps out on long pieces. I realy like it. It has plenty of power,and cuts smooth. A small bit of advice from personal experence,don't go with the dispos-a-blade system ( no adjustment) stick with the HSS 8"blades It is a good machine and will serve yo well IMHO :)

[Larry Crim]

Same here I have the 0500 jointer, 1023SL TS and the 0555 BS very happy with all and have had good CS with Griz. The only thing I would have changed was going to a bigger BS with a bigger table but the 14 is good for most things I have done just see one in the future when the projects get bigger.
Pat

[Erik Rudd]

I have a lot of grizzly machines in my shop, the 1023SL tablesaw, the G0500 jointer, the G0513 bandsaw and the G0551 planer. I bought these because I think that they represented the best overall value at the time that I purchased them, I had the financial ability to purchase any brand that I wanted I just couldn't find a large enough qualitative difference between Griz and the other brands for it to make sense to buy Delta or Jet or PM for these tools. I like them all well enough that I'd buy them all over again. Although I'd probably get a larger jointer and a larger planer if I had it all to do over again.

Erik

[Cliff Newton]

I have the 1023S 3hp tablesaw. the 0500 8" jointer, the 1029 dust collector, the 0555 bandsaw and a grizzly drill press. One day I'll probably buy a grizzly lathe. If I had the room I'd get a griz drum sander. I love my grizzly products. High quality at a budget price.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Joe,

I have one Grizzly machine, the 1018HW jointer. Its an okay machine. Fit and finish are kinda rough and dust collection isn't great with my woodsucker which surprised me. It arrived in rough condition--the shipping container was broken and it needed quite a bit of adjustment. It did align easily and so far I haven't had to use shims on the dovetailed ways. Since I don't adjust my tables much I think it should stay that way. From a jointer perspective, I wish I'd bought the DJ-20, I think I'd have been happier with it. I didn't think the Grizzly experience was worth the money I saved buying their machine. I thought shipping was high ($130), it backordered for three months, I had problems with Overnight (their shipping company), and the machine is crudely made. Even though it works well, I won't be buying another Grizzly machine.

[Richard Wolf]

Hi Joe,

Some advice from someone else with a large pro shop. Everyone thinks a large shop(2000 sq. ft.) is a dream come true, don't be mistaken, I love my shop, but planning is very important in a large shop or you will walk many extra miles in a day.

I also think you should increase your price range if you can or you will be upgrading very soon. An 8" jointer is a must. A 15" planer will do, but think cabinet style. And I would strongly suggest a large bandsaw, 16" to 20". You will be surprised how useful a powerful bandsaw is.

I know spending money sometimes is difficult, but I sure wish I had all the money back I wasted on entry level machines that really compromise and slow down production.

Good luck.

Richard

[Joe Unni]

And I would strongly suggest a large bandsaw, 16" to 20". You will be surprised how useful a powerful bandsaw is.
Richard

I know spending money sometimes is difficult, but I sure wish I had all the money back I wasted on entry level machines that really compromise and slow down production.
Thanks everyone for your responses, but Richard, this is the stuff that I need to hear - though may not like. Spending money IS difficult given the added expense of rent, but slow production was one of the major reasons I took the next step to bigger space to begin with. That said, what are some of the caveats that you ran into with the entry level machines? Also - and please forgive the ignorant question - what does a 16" or 20" bandsaw buy me?

Waiting to hear,
-joe

[Robby Phelps]

Hi Joe,

I am going to go out on a limb here and advise against the Grizzly equipment. I have worked in two pro shops that have utilized their stuff and it has in many respects been a real let down. Check the other post by Scott Parks ("Follow up with Grizzly table saw") I know the cost is a real issue but for a production facility that will use the tools daily the Grizzly stuff just does not hold up and in many respects the quality is just not there. Now many will argue with me on this and i would not be suprised to wake up tommorrow to hate mail:mad: but i just felt i would give my opinion. I was in your shoes not too long ago in setting up my shop for full time production with my furniture business. I just waited a little longer and saved more to buy really good quality equipment.
Again I really hope i havn't ticked anyone off. The grizzly tools have a very LOYAL following.

Hope this helps and if I can help any more please do not hesitate to ask.

[Bill Arnold]

... I'd really like to get the most value for my money - that's why I'm turning to Grizzly. ...joe Unni WoodWorks
Joe,

I have the G0513 17" bandsaw and am very satisfied with it. I agree with one of the other posters about going with this size bandsaw for the additional power and resaw capacity. Since I finally got this saw a few months ago, I wonder how I ever got along with a smaller one for so many years. The saw comes with a 1/2" blade on it; for additional blades get Timberwolf or Woodslicer.

Regards,

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I have two Grizzly machines in my shop (used to have three but I sold the small DC) and there'll be more this year. I have had nothing but good experiences so far!

[Joe Unni]

Robby,

If I were to pay heed and get better machines, would you advise for or against getting bigger and better used machines?

Having these machines would make some upcoming projects a heck of a lot easier.

Please note that all of this information (Grizzly fans and not) is extremely helpful to me and my one-man operation. Making informed business decisions is critical.

Again - thanks.
-joe

[chris toomey]

i have had great experience with my grizzly products. customer service also has been excellent. try to find someone local who has a few machines and see for yourself. i know one thing....if i were doing woodworking all day long in that kind of space...i'd be looking at bigger machines. .........12 - 16 inch jointer. big planer....drum sander. good luck. i'm jealous.

[Tom McMahon]

Find a used industrial machine daeler near you. There are lots of small shops going out of buisness and lots of good industrial equipment for sale cheep. Sometimes you can get it for less than the hoby stuff.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Find a used industrial machine daeler near you. There are lots of small shops going out of buisness and lots of good industrial equipment for sale cheep. Sometimes you can get it for less than the hoby stuff.

Tom, I think that's the route I'm going to go to upgrade. I've had my 8" jointer for three years and am surprised by the number of times I wish I had a wider one. That old iron looks mighty tempting.

[Mike Scoggins]

Joe,

As you've seen, you'll get mixed reviews and opinions on this one. I have the G1023S table saw and the G0500 jointer. In the long run, I have been pleased with both and have not been disappointed. However, in my case, it was a bit painful getting there. See this thread for more information: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=6277

I'm a hobbiest, and I believe these two machines are more than enough for me.

Mike

[JayStPeter]

I have two Grizzly machines and like them a lot.

If I was a professional, I might spend the money up front and get some PM or MM machines. It depends on the quantity of work you do and your willingness to spend some time getting them set up and running properly relative to saving some cash. If your max budget is truly what you've specified, I don't think you can beat the Grizzly stuff.

Jay

[Scott Parks]

I have worked in two pro shops that have utilized their stuff and it has in many respects been a real let down. Check the other post by Scott Parks ("Follow up with Grizzly table saw") I know the cost is a real issue but for a production facility that will use the tools daily the Grizzly stuff just does not hold up and in many respects the quality is just not there.
If my paycheck depended on the tablesaw, I'd be upset. I wouldn't spend my time or $ on trying Gizzly to save a buck. I'd buy PROVEN equipment that others use everyday in their pro shops. But for my hobby, I think the Grizzly saw is acceptable. For my level of WW, the $500-$1000 I saved was worth it, just a bit frustrating. Before I bought it, I looked at a 10 year old Grizzly in a lumber store. They said it gets abused 6 hours a day for the last ten years, and never even once has had a problem.

This is probably the last Grizzly machine I'm buying. Mainly because I already have every big machine I need, except bandsaw. I'm leaning towards a Rikon, maybe a MiniMax if I stumble upon wealth...:D

[Robby Phelps]

Hi Joe,

I would have no problem buying used equipment as long as it was from a reputable dealer. In my previous state of Oregon, i bought most of my equipment from Barbo Machinery and they have a huge selection of used equipment. They also have a few very qualified technicians that go over the machines with a fine tooth comb and make sure everything is up to par. If not they will not buy it to sell it. I would be very cautious buying equipment from individuals. I suppose if they kept really good records of all repairs and maintenace and it appeared to be cared for I probably would. Perhaps ask for some type of warranty in writing. (Barbo offered warranty's on their used equipment) One benefit of the used equipment is that they made stuff really beefy in the past and many of the machines are just plain tough.

Hope this helps and good luck!

[Scott Parks]

If your max budget is truly what you've specified, I don't think you can beat the Grizzly stuff.

Jay
That's why I bought the Grizzly. My budget would not support anything more$. Even what I spent on the Grizz was over doing it for me. For a couple hundred less I could have got a nice contractor saw, but that is what I was trying to get far away from... Now only time will tell if it stands the test of time. At least I only use it for about 2-3 big projects a year...

Another downside to the green machines is not having local support. I would have rather had someone come and fix it under warranty, or do a local exchange. Even though they have a warranty, it still costs your labor under the hood. They would have fixed it for me, but I would have to crate it and send it back (I didn't have the shipping crate anymore). They would fix my saw and send it back, not exchange it! If comething else goes wrong, I'll be telling them to send a new saw, and I'll send back the old one in the crate the new one comes in....

[Chris Livingston]

I used to be a big Grizzly supporter. You seem to get a lot of tool for the money but after looking a lot closer and my machines I am kicking myself for spending the money I did when a little more would have got me very high end manufacturers and a lifetime tool. Keep out my post on my 12" 5hp saw problems.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=16619&highlight=g5959 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=16619&highlight=g5959)

I've also got one of their 3hp dual bag dust collectors that went through 2 motors the first year. Their least expensive 12" 3hp jointer that it absolutely terrible for dust collection and the castings were so rough and sharp I got tired of cutting myself and got the die grinder out and spent 2 hours working on the undersides. Sold the 14" band saw and got the 20" which is a great machine for the money but wished I would have got the MM or Laguna. Spend days improving the dust collection on my 12" saw. Got tired of reaching 12" under the table for the switch and mounted it under the fence rail. and on and on and on.

[Bart Leetch]

Another thought about Grizzly equipment is your a 1 man shop & if you expect to stay that way I wouldn't worry about it. 1 because you'll take care of the machines yourself & 2 you'll keep track of the adjustments & keep them tuned up properly. I know of several 1 man shops that run Grizzly tools & don't seem to have any problems. I think you'd have problems with any tool if there was a several people running them with some more knowledgeable than others. Some with an attitude of its not my tool I don't care.

[Scott Parks]

I used to be a big Grizzly supporter. You seem to get a lot of tool for the money but after looking a lot closer and my machines I am kicking myself for spending the money I did when a little more would have got me very high end manufacturers and a lifetime tool. Keep out my post on my 12" 5hp saw problems.

Chris, after reading your problems, I'm afraid to put a longer straightedge on mine!:eek:! I only have an 18" rule, and my wings don't match up perfect (off by about .010"). With a longer rule, I'd probably be scared...

[Chris Livingston]

I'm afraid to put a longer straightedge on mine!:eek:! I only have an 18" rule, and my wings don't match up perfect (off by about .010"). With a longer rule, I'd probably be scared...
I had a 24" and had only checked from wing tip to miter slot and thought I had it close but had never placed it across from miter slot to slot. Even the 24" showed the dip in the table.

$350 later the thing is about as flat as cast from Asia is going to be and from wing tip to wing tip is is very flat.

[Richard Wolf]

The biggest problem you will have with entry level machines is lack of power. Power means capactity and speed. I'm not saying you have to rush all your work but being able to do things in one pass saves time. Example: I purchased a Delta 16-32 drum sander. Its not cheap, I think it was around $700, but not sure. It would work well for a hobbiest or home owner but try run 125 square balusters thru it. You can only take light passes at slow speed and the operation takes literally hours, can't make money that way. I'm now looking at dual drum sanders with much larger motors. I feel like the money spent on the delta was wasted.

Larger bandsaw also have larger motors, I don't know what you are making but bandsaws are great for resawing, ripping 12/4 stock, cutting jointery. A bandsaw is also much safer than a table saw if you are cutting small parts.

If you a using longer stock and trying to joint in on a 6" jointer it is possible , and someone is going to say they do it all the time, but it's not easy and it is slower than if you had an 8" jointer.

I do have some Grizzly machines, some are better than others, and I think they can fill a need for some of the machines you many need, but also try to find used stuff, although that is not always easy.

I wish you the best of luck and hope I answered some of your questions. If you have more, just ask.

Richard

[Steven Wilson]

As a pro your time is also valuable and you need to consider downtime for maintenance, blade changes, machine alignment, and repairs. You might consider looking at a jointer/planer like the FS35 from Minimax. The FS35 is a 14" jointer, 14" planer with a quick change Tersa cutterhead. Blade changes take under a minute and there are no blade adjustments to make; much better than the time it use to take me to realign a Powermatic 60 after a blade change. Although the new price may be outside of your current price you can find used machines on the Felder and MiniMax forums periodically as folk's upgrade to larger units. As for bandsaws the Centuaro bandsaws marketed by MiniMax are top notch, at present they have a good deal on the MM16 as they are replacing the current model with a newer unit.

[Paul B. Cresti]

Joe,
This past April I turned pro. I had all the "normal" and some not normal machines I had aquired over the past 10 years of my serious hobby growth. I sold my Unisaw, PM60 (USA one) and General (Canadian one) 14" planer and replaced them all with MiniMax machinery. I no longer struggle with sheetgoods, processing solid stock is easy, accurate and safer. I no longer have to think about the size of lumber I buy as I now have a 16" j/p. They did cost a bit but once setup/dialed in that is it. No more fooling around with adjustments, no more wondering how am I going to do that or handle that piece of wood/sheet....I do not have time to use inaccurate, flimsy, unsafe machines. Only you can decide how much to spend but this is you livelyhood and your machines are the only means of production. They should not hinder you at all.
European wwodworking machinery are light years ahead of the traditional American machines.

[Mike Holbrook]

Joe there is a company here in Atlanta that sells a great deal of refurbished equipment. They have a very wide range of new gear too, might be worth a call. I just bought several things from them and have been pleased with the results.

Redmond & Son, Inc
www.redmondmachinery.com

If you call them ask for Zach, he is a good man and tries hard to get you the most bang for the buck.

[Russ Massery]

Joe, I have the 1023SL which I'm happy with though I wasn't too happy the way they shipped it. the unit was damaged due poor packing and a bad shipping company(overnite). I had there 14'' bandsaw G1019 also but sold it wasn't real happy with it. If your doing this for a living I would look a some good used equipment first. I don't think I'll buy from grizzly again.:(

Hope it helps ,Russ

[Garry Smith]

I have a Grizzley 8 inch jointer and the new 14 inch bandsaw and feel for the money they were a good investment. I wish I would have waited for the new 8 inch jointer though with the handwheels.

Garry

[Joe Unni]

Lot's of great information here! I will take much of it under advisement.

At the risk of changing gears...

I checked out a local woodworking machines house - Brentwood Machine in Brentwood NH.

There is something about local support that I hadn't considered as part of this process. Purchase from them gets me that and if I spend more than $1000 I get a membership into their VIP club which gives me 10% off parts and accessories for 1 year.

At the risk of hijacking my own thread...here is what they offered me:

Jet 16" planer (JWP-160S) - $899.
Powermatic 6" Jointer with 66" bed (54A) - $799.
Jet 14" bandsaw (JWBS-14CS) - $549 (comes with free miter gauge & fence)

It all adds up to: $2247. (my original budget was around $2100)

With the different manufacturers promotions I'll get an additional $300 off which brings things down to $1947 - under budget.

This all said - this sounds pretty good to me - with local service and support to boot.

Additional input is welcome.

Thanks again,
-joe

[Robby Phelps]

Hi Joe,

The list looks great to me. I have the Powermatic 6" jointer and love it. Like everyone else i wish sometimes i had the 8" but oh well. It is a nice machine and works perfectly. Never once had to tinker with it.

I am glad the local support issue was brought up. I have been VERY impressed with WMH tool group and their determination to help. I have a Jet 3hp (jtas-10xl) table saw. After running it for 23 months the arbor pully keyway for some reason got sloppy. They had a technician at my shop the next day at no charge. (I live out in the middle of nowhere, the tech had to drive 2 hours to get to me) Now that is service.

Good luck with your growing business and keep us posted on the progress.

[Mark Singer]

I would try to get an 8" jointer. I have the DJ 20...really nice. I had a 14 " Jet bandsaw I upgraded to a 20" Agazzani and kept the 14" Jet so I think getting the 14" is a good move! I have the Jet 16"planer...it is very nice. So the 8' Jointer is the only change... I have had some Grizzly stuff...this is a notch or 2 better and I think you will appreciate the difference

[John Bailey]

Doesn't look like you would save much, if any with Grizzly. The local support is worth money, especially if you are in the business. Sounds like a no brainer.

John

[Scott Parks]

I had planned on buying the Shop Fox tablesaw instead of the Grizzly. I was going to buy it at the local tool store, but their price went up when I was ready to buy. You know how much more it would have been? Only $86! Now I really wish I had bought it instead of the Grizz. The $86 more would have been a great deal to have local support!