Ole Anderson
07-16-2011, 6:55 PM
I have a 12’ x 24’ deck next to the lake (two sides are actually PVC sheet piling) that heaved at the lake side over the course of 10 years. I had to pull up the old deck to get at the supports that needed fixing, which brought up the point: Do I put the old deck back down or do I replace it with a less-maintenance option? The old deck was premium “Thompsonized” 5/4 PT SYP from the BORG. Not in bad shape,but a lot of split ends due to improper use of the old style deck screws along with a bit of warping and some splinters. And it sat beneath 2 huge old Cottonwoods, a notoriously dirty tree species. And being wood, it needed pressure washing every year and staining every two years, a job I was not looking forward to.
So after researching the newest in composite and PVC decking materials at my local lumber yard (not competitive pricing) and at HD and Lowe’s, I settled on HD’s newest material, Veranda Armor Guard manufactured by Fibron. It is a traditional composite (wood grindings/recycled plastic/binder) with what appears to be an HDPE bonded or co-extruded surface on the top and sides. It comes with a 20 year “stain and fade” guarantee as well as a 20 year “performance” guarantee. Pricing was actually less than their sale price on Trex Accents, I paid about $26 per board compared to $28 for Trex and $10 for premium SYP PT boards, all 12 footers. Trex does make a couple of upgrade products, one is a cellular PVC called Trex Escapes from Lowes at about $34, the third Trex product is a co-extruded wood-plastic composite with an HDPE surface on 3 sides called Trex Transcend at $41 from Carter Lumber. That product is similar to the new Veranda product. As usual pricing is a major consideration; however, I feel I selected the product best suited for my use. So far the only downside is that it only comes in a dark walnut and in grey. The 12 and 16 footers are grooved for hidden fasteners, the 8 footers are not. Unlike Trex, the boards have a wavy pattern on the bottom and are 15/16" thick at the thickest, 3/4" at the thinnest, a bit less than Trex which is 1 -1/8". The width is 5-3/8". The material is rated for 16" stringer spacing when laid perpendicular to the stringers.
http://www.verandadeck.com/
I installed a Trex Accents elevated deck adjacent to the house 4 or 5 years ago. That material of course, has a known fade issue and it tends to fuzz up a bit when pressure washed. The major issue with that product was that mold would penetrate the wood fiber and it is very difficult to cure the problem, there have been class action suits in that regard. I hear that Trex now adds an anti-fungal to the material for that product. Also if you drip grease on Trex from your grill, it is there to stay as it soaks in. The product of choice to fight the mold problem seems to be Corte Clean: http://corteclean.com/HOME/Welcome.aspx (http://corteclean.com/HOME/Welcome.aspx)
I am betting that the HDPE surface will be the easiest to keep clean of any of the products out there. I am thinking a bucket of soapy water, a brush and a hose every spring.
As my original deck was installed on stringers 24” OC, I had to install 2x4 intermediates so I ended up with stringers 12” OC. For any future deck builders out there: Put your stringers at 16” OC even if you can get by with 24” now. Following their guidelines of one tub of fasteners (at $50 each) for every 30 sf of deck for 12” stringer spacing, I would have needed $500 worth of hidden fasteners for a 288 sf deck. No thanks, plus I wanted a wider gap to let the tree seeds fall thru the gaps. They got stuck in my previous deck board gaps and were a major nuisance. Also the clips were black, couldn’t tell if they were SS, if not, no thanks again. So I went with the Veranda Armor Guard surface screws. They are at least #8 SS screws with a Torx head, pan head style. They sit flush without counter sinking if you pre-drill the screw hole. They claim to need no predrilling, but if you don’t they will mushroom the surface, detracting from an otherwise neat install. To be fair, I ran a row of screws down every other stringer, I felt every 12” would be overkill. But with hidden fasteners, you use only an average of one screw per board, so if I went that way, I would have hit every stringer with the hidden system.
And thank goodness for Craig’s List: I put my stash of 47 ten year old 12 footers up for $75 and had 4 serious inquiries. Gone the next day, amazing.
I am a retired civil engineer and have no special interest in HD or Fiberon.
Some thoughts on the project:
· The screws come with a Torx bit at the bottom of the container, no mention of a free bit on the package. The Torx heads are a huge improvement from the square drive composite deck screws I used on my previous Trex project. Absolutely no cam-out in 500 screws, same T-20 bit. $30 per container of 175 screws, not really too bad considering they are SS and include a bit.
· Install the boards starting at one end, then screw the middle, then the other end. Come back later and install screws at any intermediate locations using a long hole template like in the picture. If you haven't guessed, I made double duty of my old shop made shelf hole bracket spacing template.
· I enlarged the end holes of the template just big enough to fit the screw. Drill one end, insert a screw finger tight, then drill the other end, again insert a screw, then go back and zap the intermediate holes. The longer the template, the better will be your production.
· Predrill with a 5/32” bit, better to NOT go all the way thru the board, it is less likely to lift up when you hit the stringer.
· An impact driver works great for the first screws, but once you start running in the screws production style, use a drywall gun if you have one, you will get a perfect flush screw every time. I got my Rigid drywall screw gun two years ago at the BORG at Christmas time, 2 for $99, gave one to my son. Hey every project deserves a new tool, right creekers?
· Don’t bet on the board ends being square. I goofed in this regard. Take an 1/8” off each end.
· The boards will have some bow, so use a string line to make sure the first one is straight before you screw it down, and check every dozen boards to readjust as needed. Kind of like laying roof shingles.
· Double up your stringers at any butt joints like shown on the fastener container. Don’t toenail the screws.
· I wanted 1/4" spacing on the boards, I used an old plastic speed square with the triangle portion cut to make a 1.5" leg. It served to space the screws from the end of the boards and to space the boards.
Here are some pics of the project:
So after researching the newest in composite and PVC decking materials at my local lumber yard (not competitive pricing) and at HD and Lowe’s, I settled on HD’s newest material, Veranda Armor Guard manufactured by Fibron. It is a traditional composite (wood grindings/recycled plastic/binder) with what appears to be an HDPE bonded or co-extruded surface on the top and sides. It comes with a 20 year “stain and fade” guarantee as well as a 20 year “performance” guarantee. Pricing was actually less than their sale price on Trex Accents, I paid about $26 per board compared to $28 for Trex and $10 for premium SYP PT boards, all 12 footers. Trex does make a couple of upgrade products, one is a cellular PVC called Trex Escapes from Lowes at about $34, the third Trex product is a co-extruded wood-plastic composite with an HDPE surface on 3 sides called Trex Transcend at $41 from Carter Lumber. That product is similar to the new Veranda product. As usual pricing is a major consideration; however, I feel I selected the product best suited for my use. So far the only downside is that it only comes in a dark walnut and in grey. The 12 and 16 footers are grooved for hidden fasteners, the 8 footers are not. Unlike Trex, the boards have a wavy pattern on the bottom and are 15/16" thick at the thickest, 3/4" at the thinnest, a bit less than Trex which is 1 -1/8". The width is 5-3/8". The material is rated for 16" stringer spacing when laid perpendicular to the stringers.
http://www.verandadeck.com/
I installed a Trex Accents elevated deck adjacent to the house 4 or 5 years ago. That material of course, has a known fade issue and it tends to fuzz up a bit when pressure washed. The major issue with that product was that mold would penetrate the wood fiber and it is very difficult to cure the problem, there have been class action suits in that regard. I hear that Trex now adds an anti-fungal to the material for that product. Also if you drip grease on Trex from your grill, it is there to stay as it soaks in. The product of choice to fight the mold problem seems to be Corte Clean: http://corteclean.com/HOME/Welcome.aspx (http://corteclean.com/HOME/Welcome.aspx)
I am betting that the HDPE surface will be the easiest to keep clean of any of the products out there. I am thinking a bucket of soapy water, a brush and a hose every spring.
As my original deck was installed on stringers 24” OC, I had to install 2x4 intermediates so I ended up with stringers 12” OC. For any future deck builders out there: Put your stringers at 16” OC even if you can get by with 24” now. Following their guidelines of one tub of fasteners (at $50 each) for every 30 sf of deck for 12” stringer spacing, I would have needed $500 worth of hidden fasteners for a 288 sf deck. No thanks, plus I wanted a wider gap to let the tree seeds fall thru the gaps. They got stuck in my previous deck board gaps and were a major nuisance. Also the clips were black, couldn’t tell if they were SS, if not, no thanks again. So I went with the Veranda Armor Guard surface screws. They are at least #8 SS screws with a Torx head, pan head style. They sit flush without counter sinking if you pre-drill the screw hole. They claim to need no predrilling, but if you don’t they will mushroom the surface, detracting from an otherwise neat install. To be fair, I ran a row of screws down every other stringer, I felt every 12” would be overkill. But with hidden fasteners, you use only an average of one screw per board, so if I went that way, I would have hit every stringer with the hidden system.
And thank goodness for Craig’s List: I put my stash of 47 ten year old 12 footers up for $75 and had 4 serious inquiries. Gone the next day, amazing.
I am a retired civil engineer and have no special interest in HD or Fiberon.
Some thoughts on the project:
· The screws come with a Torx bit at the bottom of the container, no mention of a free bit on the package. The Torx heads are a huge improvement from the square drive composite deck screws I used on my previous Trex project. Absolutely no cam-out in 500 screws, same T-20 bit. $30 per container of 175 screws, not really too bad considering they are SS and include a bit.
· Install the boards starting at one end, then screw the middle, then the other end. Come back later and install screws at any intermediate locations using a long hole template like in the picture. If you haven't guessed, I made double duty of my old shop made shelf hole bracket spacing template.
· I enlarged the end holes of the template just big enough to fit the screw. Drill one end, insert a screw finger tight, then drill the other end, again insert a screw, then go back and zap the intermediate holes. The longer the template, the better will be your production.
· Predrill with a 5/32” bit, better to NOT go all the way thru the board, it is less likely to lift up when you hit the stringer.
· An impact driver works great for the first screws, but once you start running in the screws production style, use a drywall gun if you have one, you will get a perfect flush screw every time. I got my Rigid drywall screw gun two years ago at the BORG at Christmas time, 2 for $99, gave one to my son. Hey every project deserves a new tool, right creekers?
· Don’t bet on the board ends being square. I goofed in this regard. Take an 1/8” off each end.
· The boards will have some bow, so use a string line to make sure the first one is straight before you screw it down, and check every dozen boards to readjust as needed. Kind of like laying roof shingles.
· Double up your stringers at any butt joints like shown on the fastener container. Don’t toenail the screws.
· I wanted 1/4" spacing on the boards, I used an old plastic speed square with the triangle portion cut to make a 1.5" leg. It served to space the screws from the end of the boards and to space the boards.
Here are some pics of the project: