Help w/ plane irons (and something strange)

[Peter Cobb]

First the strange thing:
The local Borg (Latin America has it's local varieties) chose to stock hand planes some 2 years ago. They brought in a few Stanley #3c,#4c and #5c (http://www.easy.cl/easy/ProductDisplay?mundo=1&id_prod=111409&id_cat=8872&tpCa=0&caN0=0&caN1=0&caN2=0&caN3=0), at relatively low prices (that 5c tool shaped object costs around 40 bucks). They also, sensibly, decided to bring in replacement blades (http://www.stanleytoolparts.com/12-315-1-02-0c-02.html)... yep::D
They brought in the 2 3/8" blades (fit #6 & 7 if you didn't look at the links, as well as #4 1/2, which they definitely don't stock)...

Well, I bought the last 6 they had for about 30 bucks total with a view to hacking them up as donors for a series of planemaking projects (more on that later).

The question is: Does anyone know the composition of the new Stanley irons (HCS, Stainless, HSS, junk, not A2, O1 or D2 I s'pose)? They say made in England on the packaging (one in a shrink display 5 in paper) but not much more.

Any suggestions on heat treating them to do the hacking process (or do I follow Ron Hock's advice as closely as possible). They are a pathetic 2.2 mm thick (11/128" or 86 thou, whichever you prefer). Or am I losing my time on a crappy product?

Cheers,
Peter

[Joe Fabbri]

I thought about doing just the same thing, buying some cheap Home Depot Stanley or Buck Bros. plane irons, and splitting them or cutting them down to make molding planes or dado planes. I'm also curious about the composition. I imagine it's just plane high carbon steel, but not a great product, I imagine. Maybe for some quick homemade planes, it's fine, which is what I have in mind.

I'm not sure, still, if it's worth it to fuss with prehardened metal, as shaping it might be a real trying experience. That's what others have been telling me. I'm not sure, though. It seem's if I just use a coarse sand paper when fixing a plane iron, I'm able to reshape the bevel pretty quickly (taking out nicks or unsquare bevels). Unless someone took off the temper of the irons in the past (which I guess is possible, since they're old irons), I'd think that you could probably somewhat reshape new hardened irons with a little effort.

I guess it would depend on what you want to do with the irons--making drastic changes, or keeping them pretty much as is. For big changes, maybe it doesn't pay at all.

Anyway, I'd like to know what others say about those irons as well.

Joe

[David Weaver]

If you want to cut them, heat them enough to make them lose their temper and let them cool fairly slowly (they are probably an oil hardening steel).

If you want steel for plane projects, you are far ahead to buy precision ground annealed O1 stock, cut/machine/file/lap it to be what you want and then heat treat it.

I would use those stanley irons to scrape glue, though I did one time in all of the times I've read this forum see someone recommend stanley replacement irons when someone said they had a plane where the iron was pooped out (used to the slot) - likely because it was the cheapest solution.

[Bill Houghton]

Not sure of the composition, but the few recent-model Stanley plane irons I've seen have not been tempered terribly hard.

[Joe Fabbri]

Yeah, for a nice homemade plane, you should probably use tool steel stock and start from scratch. I'm thinking of a premade blade for a quickie plane, something like a one sided rabbet plane, before I find or make a real one.

[James Scheffler]

I bought one of the modern made in England Stanleys several years ago and found that the steel isn't very good. It gets dull very quickly. Not nearly as good as vintage Stanley blades, much less the modern high-quality blades like Hock, LV, etc.

It might be interesting to try annealing and rehardening/tempering one of those blades to see if it's really the steel, or if it's more about the heat treating process that they use.

Jim S.

[Peter Cobb]

Hey Joe,
I also looked at the shape and started figuring out the number of different narrow blades I could hack out of one of those 2 3/8 inch pieces. I'm guessing that it won't be too hard to make cap irons if they turn out to be too flimsy. A narrow rabbet blade for starters.

David, I was wondering who (rather than if, someone on the creek must have bodged away on one of these) had any experience with playing around with them... maybe I'll convert them into marking knives. The cost for transport over here is pretty steep: value + shipping (I'm 5000 miles south from El Paso, TX) + 25% duties and tax on both (yep pay VAT on transport too). I may go that path in the future.
Do you know where you got the oil hardening notion from?

Hey James,
I may be the guinea pig then. Have to wait until it stops raining before I botch a bed of coals together.

Cheers,
Peter

[David Weaver]

Just a guess on the oil hardening, and could be wrong, but it doesn't hurt to try one.

They are probably some sort of chrome vanadium alloy, and I don't know what the hardening schedule would be on something like that.

[James Scheffler]

Just a guess on the oil hardening, and could be wrong, but it doesn't hurt to try one.

They are probably some sort of chrome vanadium alloy, and I don't know what the hardening schedule would be on something like that.

I recall hearing that they are chrome vanadium. Don't know for sure. Their on-line catalog says "high-carbon chrome steel."

[Don Dorn]

I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea how the HD blades are hardened, but I bought three of them for practice when I was learning to grind. I sharpened one and decided to keep it as a back up for a #4 so I didn't have to stop to sharpen. I am actually very impressed as to how long they hold an edge which is about third to twice longer than the stock Stanley. I would assume that means they are a bit harder.

[David Weaver]

Don, are those the ones that are in the "buck bros" packaging?

I've seen clips of the buck brother's hardening of chisels now, and it appears that they are electrically hardened and tempered (what's the commercial term for that?). I'd assume at the price of those irons, the same might be done to them.

[Trevor Walsh]

For what it's worth I stuck one of those replacement blades in a 9 1/2 I also got an ICB, night and day difference in how sharp I could get the ICB. I don't think the new Stanley blades are worth the thought.

[Don Inghram]

I have one of the Buck bros. irons from the Home Depot in a homemade smoother I made. I'm mildly impressed with it. Flat to begin with and holds an edge well. What more could you ask for a few bucks.

[john brenton]

The last time I went to Peru I went to the hardware store in Ayacucho and saw a Chilean made plane that looked pretty decent for a good price. I think the No. 8 was something like 30 bucks. This was just in January. I can't remember the name of the manufacturer, but it had baby blue "japanning". I should have bought it. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Peter Cobb]

Chilean made plane???? That's new. To be honest, no, I haven't seen them.
If you remember the name please give us a shout.
Cheers,
Peter

[Derek Cohen]

I believe that the early blades were HCS and Valadium would only have come in after WW2.

I have a bunch of old used up Stanley plane blades. I re-use the steel for knives.

If the steel is soft, simply harden it. Try oil first for quenching - always safer - and it that does not work, then use water.

Some knives do not even need hardening. For example, this letter knife does just fine with untempered steel as the blade edges are unsharpened ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/Letter%20Knife/Letterknife-parts1.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/Letter%20Knife/Letterknife2.jpg

... or build carving knives ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Tools%20that%20I%20have%20made/Chipcarvingknives.jpg

I recall that Jim Krenov would cut down the length of the blades (allowing the twin ends to stand free) to use in his early planes (before he went to Hock). If it was good enough for JK ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Peter Cobb]

Really beautiful examples. Your work is inspiring, Derek.
I guess Krenov going to Hock probably means something too.
I'll certainly have a go at heat treating them (the good thing of picking 6 up) and compare.
Cheers,
Peter

[Brian Rabinovitch]

For what it's worth I stuck one of those replacement blades in a 9 1/2 I also got an ICB, night and day difference in how sharp I could get the ICB. I don't think the new Stanley blades are worth the thought.

Hi Trevor

Thank you for the kind words about the IBC blades. We work hard to produce high quality products at a reasonable price. The IBC/Cosman matched blade chip breaker set is now sold separately without the DVD, which removed $20 from the original price. They now retail for $79.95 for the 1 /34” or 2” and $84.95 for the 2 3/8” model. This product was created to vastly improve the performance of older bench planes. Based on the opinions of various wood tool experts and woodworkers like you, it does perform as advertised.



Another IBC/Cosman collaboration that will hopefully be ready for release in the next few weeks is the new dovetail marking knife. This too will be a high quality reasonably priced wood tool. For now, all I can reveal is that the blade will have some unique features, the handle will be bright red just like the 30 year old modified one Rob had been using for many years, and, it will include a spare blade.


I will be listening to all feedback on that as well.


Brian Rabinovitch (IBC)