Joes 4x4 Hybrid ?

[Mike Wenman]

My homebuilt Blacktoe has given me enough fits, I'm about to the point of tearing it all apart and building a 4x4 hybrid instead. For those of you that have this build, any ideas of how a chain drive system would work instead of R&P or Acme Lead screws?

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

Imo, a chain drive is just not a good choice for a router. To work half way decent, it needs to be really tight. And if you can get it really tight, it'll stretch, requiring constant re-tightening.

You're best bet is to go with the rack and pinion.

Consider the Blacktoe a lesson learned at the school of hard knocks. It's just not strong enough for an 18"x18" machine, let alone 2x4 or 4x8. Home built CNC's have progressed tremendously over the last 5 years, yet the BuildYourCNC machines perform no better than some of the earliest homebuilt machines from 6-7 years ago. They may be easy to build, but don't have much else going for them. But you know that now.

[Mike Wenman]

Don't get me wrong here, Patrick (Buildyourcnc) is a fantastic guy and has been a pleasure working with him, but I have had nothing but struggles with both the book machine he offers and my current Blacktoe build. It's not the chain drive aspect of stretching etc that I have had issues with...its the fact that I can never seem to get things truely squared up to cut right regardless of how many times I cut and recut parts and use squares etc to help keep things square when building. Inevetibly, I end up woth something askew. Most recent issue is that my router base is approx 3/8" out of square to the table so I will never be able to get a nice flat, crisp, clean cut.

Soooo, time to look elsewhere. I know that many are going to R&P systems which are promising, but in the essence of cost reduction, will probably have to go with a leadscrew build as it is much cheaper and perhaps can always upgrade to R&P in the future.

[Shane Sura]

I have the R&P drive Joe's 4 x 4. I know nothing of the chain drive systems but I certainly think a R&P drive would be far super and accurate in comparison. In terms of price comparrisons between the Lead Screw or R&P I was always led to believe it is slightly cheaper (though if you start upgrading either it throws any comparison out of whack). Either way I would recommend the R&P just for ease of set up and it is less reliant on the HDPE parts. I would also recommend v-rail from the outset as I wish I would have done so and it will probably be my first upgrade.

[Mike Wenman]

The system I currently have uses .75 x .75 6051 aluminum angle and V-Groove Bearings so will definitely be salvaging and using those components.

[Mike Heidrick]

Love the R&P Cast CNC Joes setup. Another $100 sign came off it today and compared to most here I think I am cheap.

Shane, you see where Harry distributes V rail now?

Dont think I would use alum rails on my build though. I did not like the angle iron either - hardened V rails has definately been an improvement.

[Shane Sura]

Hey Mike...yea I saw Harry is into that. I made a firm commitment to myself that I will do absolutely no upgrades until I actually make some $$ with the machine. Until I do it is strictly in "hobby" status.

[Bill Griggs]

Shane whatever you do, don't use aluminum angle with Hardened steel wheels. You will never be able to keep it from wearing out the aluminum. Either stick with the plans or upgrade to hardened V-rails. Seems everyone is complaining about the angle iron but I have been running mine for over two years with no problems. Of course I bought my angles from a steel supplier not Home Depot or Lowes.

Bill

[hai hong]

I don't know much a CNC other than that it is run by a computer program to make prescision cut on certain material .I don't even know if my last statement is correct .I just know I want to build one and ready to get the kit for a 4x4 from Joe .Does anyone here know where I can find a picture of a CNC machine with all the name of each part ,so I can have a better understanding of what you guy are talking about .What's a V-rails ,angle iron ? When you guy are talking about lead screw ,is that the same as what most garage opener use to raise or lower the door ? Can someone tell me what is the cost to build one ,if I have a $3000 budget can I build one ? This is strictly for hobby ,I just like building things and is a 4x4 big enough for cabinet doors ?

[Mike Heidrick]

I don't know much a CNC other than that it is run by a computer program to make prescision cut on certain material .I don't even know if my last statement is correct .I just know I want to build one and ready to get the kit for a 4x4 from Joe .Does anyone here know where I can find a picture of a CNC machine with all the name of each part ,so I can have a better understanding of what you guy are talking about .What's a V-rails ,angle iron ? When you guy are talking about lead screw ,is that the same as what most garage opener use to raise or lower the door ? Can someone tell me what is the cost to build one ,if I have a $3000 budget can I build one ? This is strictly for hobby ,I just like building things and is a 4x4 big enough for cabinet doors ?

Take some time and read this thread about the parts I used doing my Joes upgrade to learn more about vrail and parts of a CNC. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?156718-CastCNC-Alum-carriages-for-my-machine-coming-in-2011

Lead screw info example: http://www.fignoggle.com/components/acme-lead-screws-delrin-anti-backlash-nuts.htm

You can build a standard Joes CNC 4X4 rack and pinion machine minus software and PC costs for close to $3000 - maybe a buit less or more. About 10-12 $300 paymants is what I figure.

Truthfully there are much better ways in woodworking to build cabinet doors in my opinion - at least the way I build them. A shaper and cutters and a good jointer, planer, chop saw, and tablesaw would make superior doors. But yes I am sure you can do them.

Let me know if you join Joe's site and decide to build a machine. I can save you some money on carriages and help you get started. I have helped several folks with their build now.

mike at thewoodworker dot com is my home eamil address.

Best of luck to you. You will love the build.


Also, did you see www.cncrouterparts.com (http://www.cncrouterparts.com) has a 4X4 R&P machine kit out now too?

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Mike hit the nail on the head. Too many people think they CNC Router is the answer to replacing tools in a wood working shop. For less than the money you will eventualy put into building a production machine I can put in place a couple of tools that will run circles around the CNC for creating cabinet doors. A couple properly setup shapers with power feeders can whip out door parts. I know cause I worked in a cabinet shop. I got it down so that I could create all the parts for a door in a few minutes.

Now if you are creating laminate style euro doors, the best way is to cut the panel and then use the CNC to cut the holes and pockets.

[hai hong]

Thank Mike and Michael ,I'll probally be using it for other things beside cabinet doors ,once I learn more about it and what it capable of doing .

[Bill Griggs]

I have a set of carriages for sale in the classified forum if you are inteested. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?176375-For-sale-Gantry-Kit-for-Joes-CNC-Hybrid


Bill