Wrapping trim around a newel post

[Jim German]

I'm working on a newel post for my new stair railing thats going to look something like this:
http://www.stairsupplies.com/eng/popup_images?item_id=127&numb=3

I've got most of it made up and am just in the process of putting the trim on, but am having a very hard time getting it to go on well. I seem to either cut the pieces a hair short/long, or not align it properly and as such the last piece never fits well, and looks terrible. Does anyone have any super tips on a better way to do it? I'm currently trying to mark the boards with the post, and use a square to put them up level.

[Josiah Bartlett]

Don't assume that the post is square, and it may be tapered from end to end. It is tricky. A miter jack and a sanding block is a nice thing to have for final trimming- its easier to cut it close and then trim to perfect rather than trying to fine tune with a saw.

[michael a nelson]

if you post a pic i might be able to give you an answer

[Jim German]

Here you go!
201649

201648

[michael a nelson]

i would just cut the molding an 1/8th to big and just sneak up on the fit just taking hairs off at a time with the miter saw

[ray hampton]

can a coping saw be use to undercut, I cut the angle as close as possible than clamp the wood to the post and use a hand saw over and over sawing between the post and the end until the joint were close

[Tom Ewell]

Hopefully your post is square (ish) and your miters are pretty close.

I suggest using a zero clearance fence on your saw, you can mark the fence with a good starting length for reference as you fit the trim.

Precut two sides long, hold one corner tight to the post and mark the backs of the trim for length, cut and check, if the fit is good, work your way around the post until four sides are complete.

"whisker cuts" be done by bringing down the saw blade (non spinning) and gently bringing the trim into the blade plate, hold all still and raise the blade to clear the teeth and make your cut.

Preassemble three sides and slide over the post, put the fourth one on, square it up to the post and attach.

On your particular newel, if it is fairly true, you might even be able to preassemble the whole trim and work it down the post.

The trim should be snug but not so much that potential movement of the newel will break open the miters.

[Joe Fabbri]

On the piece of astragal, if that's the correct name, that is sticking out, is there a space between that and the newel post itself? I can't tell from the picture. If so, then maybe you cut it a hair long. Or the piece is mitered slightly too little--less than 45). If there's no space, maybe the post itself is not square. If that's the case, then maybe you have to adjust the miter to match the corner.

Alternatively, if the corner is out of square, you might be able to thin down slightly the back of the trim at the corner that's sticking out. This way you could bring it back to square without fussing with the post itself. And the slightly thinner back would probably not be noticeable at all.

Just curious, are you gluing this, or are you fastening it with nails or brads?

[Mike Schuch]

I've never done this so I am just blowing smoke at you...

I would give up on wrapping the post and make a picture frame and slide it over the post when it is finished like another poster mentioned.

When making a picture frame the perfect 45 cut is usually less important than having opposite pieces the exact same length.

I would start by stacking two pieces of stock and use a touch of hide glue or something to keep them together. Then I would cut the two opposite sides out of this stacked stock at the same time to make sure they are exactly the same length.

I would then cut a piece of 1/4" plywood 1" bigger than your post. So if your post is 4 x 4 cut the plywood to be 5 x 5.

Cut a 1/4" x 1/2" dado down the back of each piece of trim.

Assemble the trim by gluing it on the 5 x 5 piece of 1/4" plywood using the plywood to keep the trim pieces square.

Once everything is dry use a flush trim bit on your router to cut the inside piece of plywood out of the middle of the trim frame. Use a chisel to square the corners. The remaining 1/2" plywood frame inside of the trim frame should keep the trim together and flush over the years.

I would (grabbing at thin air) use some silcone sealer to glue the frame to the post which would allow for wood expansion and contraction over the years without causing any joints to open up.

But I am just blowing smoke!

[Mike Schuch]

Since I am tossing ideas around I thought I would toss one more idea out here.

Make the trim frame making sure the opposite sides are the exact same length but this time make the frame an 1/8" too small for the post.

Then cut dados around the circumference of the post 3/32" deep and the width of your stock. Now assemble the frame in the dadoes in the post. This will allow for wood movement but the trim will always look like it is flush to the post because it is actually set in the post. This slack will also allow you to compensate for minor squareness issues in the post.

But I am just tossing out ideas!

[Mike Schuch]

Ahh... Heck...

For the second method spline 3 sides together like in the first method and then peg the 4th piece on with a couple of dowels. Then you could just float the whole trim piece in the mitered grove in the post. Use a bit of Styrofoam behind the piece on all four sides to keep it from rattling... I use styrofoam in my rail and style doors because I can never find those little balls I bought way back when for this purpose.

[Richard Wolf]

First, I run a line around the post with a square to indicate the bottom edge of the molding. If they meet up, your good. It is difficult to cut each piece, but like others said, you have to sneak up on it. Of course, once it's too short, it's garbage. Also, while I know this will be at the beginning of your staircase, it is a small detail in the grand scheme of things. If they are a little off, a quick hit with some sand paper goes a long way to make it look good. Once stained and finished, put the worst side on the inside and it will be forgotten about shortly.

[Jim German]

The post is perfectly square, so thats not an issue. I'm installing the trim with pin nails and glue.

I'll have to give assembling three sides on the bench a try. Just a bit of glue on the corners to hold it together?

[Neil Brooks]

Lots of people just use tape to hold them together. Masking should work.

[Tom Ewell]

Just a bit of glue on the corners to hold it together?
Couple of pins and a spot of glue on the miters, if the fit is good continue on.
If something goes wrong it should be easy to pull apart before the glue is set.

Heed Richard's advice as well, a little sanding and "hiding" from sight is all part of the process.

[Kevin Stricker]

If the post is square, then likely the problem is in your equipment or technique. Make sure your miter saw or tablesaw is cutting perfect at 45. Make sure your stock is not creeping on you while you cut (use a clamp). A ZCI will help line up your cut, or just make a sub-fence that clamps to your miter saw.

I would build it as follows:
Assemble one corner with 2p10 and spring clamps then reinforce with some 23ga pins then clamp that piece to the post. Now mark the cutlines on the exposed edges (cut 1/4 long intentionally)with a utility knife. Take off and make cuts and glue on one more piece (sized identical to the opposite piece) then install the three piece assembly so the final side is on the least visible aspect. Cut the final piece slightly long and creep up on the cut with a block plane.

[Jim German]

If the post is square, then likely the problem is in your equipment or technique. Make sure your miter saw or tablesaw is cutting perfect at 45. Make sure your stock is not creeping on you while you cut (use a clamp). A ZCI will help line up your cut, or just make a sub-fence that clamps to your miter saw.

I would build it as follows:
Assemble one corner with 2p10 and spring clamps then reinforce with some 23ga pins then clamp that piece to the post. Now mark the cutlines on the exposed edges (cut 1/4 long intentionally)with a utility knife. Take off and make cuts and glue on one more piece (sized identical to the opposite piece) then install the three piece assembly so the final side is on the least visible aspect. Cut the final piece slightly long and creep up on the cut with a block plane.

What's a 2p10 and a ZCI?

My miter saw is pretty much spot on 45 degrees, so I don't think thats the problem. Looking at the post a little more carefully, I think my issue isn't with cutting it properly, but with aligning the end of the cut exactly with the edge of the post.

[Neil Brooks]

2p10 is an adhesive.
ZCI is a Zero Clearance Insert.

Just a quick Google, if you need more info :)

[Neal Clayton]

looking and measuring isn't so great for such things. feel it. hold the piece where it goes, run your finger underneath and feel the point in the miter with your fingernails. sneak it up until you can't get your fingernail on the point anymore.

[Keith Weber]

It's hard to see from the pic, but if the two pieces of wraparound trim are both coming into contact on the inside corner (which they appear to be), then your problem is that your trim is not cut at precisely 45 degrees. If the trim is cut at 45 degrees and the inside corners are aligned, then the outside profile will align as well, assuming that the trim is uniform in thickness. If your miter saw is set at 44.5 degrees, and you cut the mating piece on the opposite side of the blade, then the mating piece will be at 45.5 degrees, for a difference of 1 degree. The error will double. It's also very hard on a stock miter saw to get accurate repetition for short pieces because, well... the aluminum fences aren't exactly what I'd call precision. I use what I call my Crown-Cutting Idiot jig to increase the accuracy of my cuts (pic attached). It's screwed to the saw, so it doesn't move.

201933

If your trim is cut at a true 45 degrees, then I suspect that your trim is not uniform in thickness. Measure both pieces with a vernier caliper, and I'm sure you'll find that it varies in thickness (not uncommon if you use a router table and use hand pressure to make the cut).

Hope I was able to help.

Keith

[Joseph Tarantino]

good suggestions from keith. i tried mitering trim without a jig like his, and it was much easier and more accurate when i took the time the build the jig first. just my $.02.