Looking for input from the shaper guys on cutting cope and stick profiles

[scott vroom]

I've been using my PC 7518 router table for raised panel profiles (cope/stick/panel cove). I'm frustrated at the amount of effort it takes, particularly on the long stile pieces, to get a smooth, consistent finished profile. No matter how I hold down the stock (featherboards or by hand), I seem to end up with some rippling...mostly on the long pieces.

I'm thinking that a shaper would yield a more consistently smooth profile surface, due perhaps to the hold-downs and/or auto feed capability? Can you shaper guys tell me if I'm correct on this? One irony is that I've got more invested in my router table than a decent prosumer shaper would have cost. I realize shaper cutters are more expensive but if a shaper eliminates the rework I'm experiencing with my router table the added cost is justified.

Thanks

[David Kumm]

I am a big shaper guy but the best bet for your problem is a powerfeeder. Don't know if it is feasible on your router table but it gives the best finish. I don't think shapers should be sold without them. Dave

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Scott, I'm always amazed by how much people invest in a router table, I would rather have a shaper.

I have a Hammer B3 Winner which is a 4 HP sliding table, tilting spindle shaper. I have a stock feeder for it as well.

Yes the shaper and feeder do eliminate the variations you see when you hand feed stock.

A feeder is more forgiving of stock flatness because it has enough hold down force to flatten the stock.

Shapers also can be used with an outboard fence and feeder to dimension and profile in one pass, as they can take the entire edge away.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. I don't know about your area, however you may be able to pick up a good used Euro shaper for a fraction of the new cost.

[Jeff Monson]

Scott, A shaper with a powerfeed will give you great results. As Rod mentioned a feeder holds the stock down and feeds consistently giving a much smoother profile. Larger heavier cutters also help with better cut quality also. I'd look into some insert cutters, if you are going to go down the shaper road.

I still wouldnt be without my router table though. Yes, one can get more invested in a nice table than a shaper...but a router table is still unreplaceable in my shop. While I do have a high speed router spindle for my shaper, the router table is much quicker for small profiles, roundovers, etc.

[Chris Fournier]

Shaper and feeder are the hot ticket as they say. Yeah cutters are dear but I'd look at a muti profile cutter head to start given your needs. Having had a smaller shaper and now a larger industrialish unit I'd say go big or get someone else to do this work for you. A small shaper isn't much better than a good router table - my opinion of course.

[scott vroom]

Chris, define "small shaper". Is the shaper on the B3 Winner considered "big"?

[John TenEyck]

I bought the 1-1/2 HP, 3/4" spindle Grizzly shaper at an auction, new, for about 2/3's the price of a new one. I do wish I had a 1-1/4" spindle however, so that I could use larger cutters, and a tilt arbor sure would be nice, too, but it has been a good machine nevertheless. I have nothing more than feather boards on it and have no trouble getting nice smooth cope and stick joints. You may not be the problem with your router table, it could be that the arbor or bit are flexing as you push the stock through. It's only 1/2" diameter. If you haven't tried taking multiple passes you should. If you suddenly start getting nice smooth edges after taking a final pass at around 1/32" then that was the problem. If you are getting occassional low spots do they correspond with you pausing during the cut? You have to take a continous pass at pretty constant speed. This certainly is a major advantage of a power feeder, but I don't run enough stuff on my shaper to justify the cost of one. Most of the stuff I run is less than 3 feet, so it's really not a big need for me. I don't use my shaper a lot, but it's a much better alternative than a router table for the things I do use it for. If you have a lot of extra space, by all means, get a big one, used would be my choice. But if things are tight now, I'd think real hard about how you're going to fit one in and have enough room to use it. Good luck with whatever direction you take.

[Chris Fournier]

Scott, I'd (and the industry) consider anything with less than a 1 1/4" or 30mm spindle size to be small. The 1 1/4" spindle would be a medium sized machine. This is the size I have with 6.6 hp motor. I don't doubt that a 4 hp motor would suffice.

Also spring for the tilting spindle, I'd consider the tilt a must have if you're going to get a shaper to make money. One straight cutter is any bevel you want...

Felder has pretty good $$$ on shaper cutters but metric is the prevelant spindle bore. I have a local supplier of cutters and they manufacture them in house and the quality exceeds the Felder stuff by a fair bit for a tad more $$$.

[Rod Sheridan]

Scott, no the Hammer shaper isn't big.

It is a reasonable quality, however if you're looking for commercial look at ACM, Martin, Felder etc.........Rod

[Mike Schuch]

I seem to be able to get equally good/crappy results out of my 5hp sliding table Jet shaper and my fathers Porter Cable 3 1/4 hp router table. The larger diameter of my rail and style shaper cutter does seem to have a bit of and advantage over my fathers Freud bits. I wish I could justify a power feeder!

[Peter Quinn]

A 3 HP 3/4" spindle shaper does a fine job making cabinet doors and raised panels, particularly with a feeder, even on a light commercial basis. The idea that every small shop needs a 5HP+ shaper with a 1 1/4" spindle is a strange misconception. I have both a 3HP and a 5HP shaper, and I certainly do appreciate the difference. For larger moldings and larger cuts like passage door cope and stick, the 5HP really has the advantage. For some of the work I do I really must have the larger shaper, but for cabinet door work, I hardly notice the difference frankly. The smaller shaper is so much more capable than a router table for cabinet joinery its hard to describe.

Now, if I were looking to expand to shaper capability, and the budget allowed, I would certainly recommend getting a 5HP 1 1/4" machine because ti will take you farther than the smaller machine. But if your budget has room for only the smaller shaper it will most certainly do what you are presently seeking with ease. There are quite a number of good 3/4" cutter heads available from the likes of Freeborn, infinity, Amana, Freud, and others.

[Chip Lindley]

I have never used the router for rail/stile work, but the same principles as shaper use can be employed on a router table to give you better results than you seem to get now.

My first "real" shaper was a 3hp WoodTek import with 1" spindle, which still serves me well today for coping the ends of rails on a Weaver coping sled.

Use of an outboard fence for shaping the sticking groove and profile. Hand feeding can be just as consistent as with a power feeder, but more labor intensive. The straight outer edge of the rails/stiles are pushed against the outboard fence under spring-loaded pressure of featherboards or other hold downs.

Leave it to hold downs to apply pressure to the workpiece, top and side. You must only push the piece past the shaper cutter. A sturdy push stick can be used as you near the cutter. The feed need not be interrupted at all. Also, try cutting the part in two passes rather than only one. The outboard fence can be set 1/8" farther out than needed to cut a partial profile, then a 1/8" hardboard shim can be inserted to bring the cut to full depth. Removing less material makes feeding easier, with a smoother cut. The redundancy will be made up for by better results.

~~Chip~~

The principle of Weaver's stile jig can be used for a shop-made fence. Check it out.
201474

[Chip Lindley]

I have never used the router for rail/stile work, but the same principles as shaper use can be employed on a router table to give you better results than you seem to get now.

My first "real" shaper was a 3hp WoodTek import with 1" spindle, which still serves me well today for coping the ends of rails on a Weaver coping sled.

Rather than push stock against the router's split fence, use an outboard fence for shaping the sticking groove and profile. Hand feeding can be just as consistent as with a power feeder, but more labor intensive. The straight outer edge of the rails/stiles are pushed against the outboard fence under spring-loaded pressure of featherboards or other hold downs.

Leave it to hold downs to apply pressure to the workpiece, top and side. You must only push the piece past the shaper cutter. A sturdy push stick can be used as your fingers near the cutter. The feed need not be interrupted at all. Also, try cutting the part in two passes rather than only one. The outboard fence can be set 1/8" farther out than needed to cut a partial profile, then a 1/8" hardboard shim can be inserted to bring the cut to full depth. Removing less material makes feeding easier, with a smoother cut. The redundancy will be made up for by better results.

~~Chip~~

The principle of Weaver's stile jig can be used for a shop-made fence. Check it out.
201475