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Zach England
07-11-2011, 12:27 PM
I don't see much discussion of classical guitars here. I think an attempt at building one may be in my not-too-distant future. I've been taking lessons for a few months now and want to get a little more playing proficiency and a little more study under my belt before I dive in. Is there anyone here who is involved in classical guitar, or is there another forum I should seek?

Shaun Mahood
07-11-2011, 12:49 PM
Zach, the luthiers forum over at Delcamp has tons of really, really good information. Pretty great for other classical guitar stuff as well - I started playing 2.5 years ago, it's really a lot of fun.

Building a classical guitar is what started me on wanting to start woodworking, although I think I have a long road before I get one finished (there are a lot of detours that I'm enjoying too).
I've picked up a few books and read a ton on the internet, but no practical experience. If you have any questions about where to look for beginner information feel free to bug me, I might be able to point you towards some good places to start looking. Of the books I've got, one is geared to handwork, one for machines with lots of jigs, and the other is somewhere in between.

Also, Luthiers Mercantile International (lmii.com) sells kits with all the wood you need, and you can get specific things serviced for you if you want. For a first guitar, I've been given the advice that it's not worth it to go with the really high grade wood. Apparently the grade is based on looks alone, and the acoustic properties are a crapshoot unless you inspect the wood yourself and know what you are looking for.

Unfortunately, any advice I can give you is secondhand and may not be completely correct.

Zach England
07-11-2011, 1:03 PM
I recently picked up John Bogdanovich's book and have pretty much devoured it over the past several days. I ordered some gouges in the sizes he recommends from Lee Valley, wince those were the only hand tools I didn't have. I think the only other major purchase I will have to make to get started is a bending iron and maybe a few clamps.

I am actually very interested in exploring luthiery in general. Classical music has become a very big part of my interests and passions in the past 4-5 years and I am quite frustrated and disenchanted with my current career. One of the best violin-making schools in the country is here in my city, but I can't exactly quit my day job to attend it for three years. I can dream, right?

Shaun Mahood
07-11-2011, 1:35 PM
Zach, if you can get an extended vacation there are a few luthiers that teach shorter courses. There's one in Saskatchewan that teaches 7 week courses, and I know there are others. There's also a luthier local to me who will teach you on your own schedule, but it's about $5000 for one guitar worth of instruction and shop time so kind of out of my budget. I know there are some who offer much more affordable instruction, but I can't think of any that I've talked to who are in Utah.

Any opportunity for night classes or weekend seminars? It would be a real shame if you couldn't find some way to take advantage of that school being nearby.

Roy Courtnall's book (Making Master Guitars) is my favourite of the ones I have, and the one I'm planning to follow. LMI sells full size copies of his plans if you need them, I found photocopying and blowing them up from the book quite difficult and am planning on ordering the full size set.

Zach England
07-11-2011, 1:42 PM
I have an acquaintance who is attending the local school (http://www.vmsa.net) and she has offered to give me a tour and introduce me to some people when they start up again in September. I wish I had known when I was 18 that I am happier working with my hands than doing anything else.

Zach England
07-11-2011, 1:50 PM
I just ordered the Jonathan Natelson book. Which others should I look at?

Shaun Mahood
07-11-2011, 2:02 PM
I'll take a look when I get home tonight at my other books and see which ones might be useful. I haven't actually got the Natelson one (everyone seems to refer to it as the Cumpiano book), so you'll have to let me know how it is compared to the Bogdanovich. From everything I've read I think a good approach to the first guitar would be to just start at the beginning of one of the books and follow it all the way through, referencing other books (and posting or searching on the Delcamp forums) when you run into problems or questions. I've also had numerous people recommend starting with spruce and indian rosewood and following a plan exactly, since then you will have something to compare with and have a way to track down your mistakes.

If you want something really crazy take a look at the Ervin Somogyi books - 2 books for $265. Everyone who has read them seems to get a lot out of them, and they are geared more for the high end learner.

Chris Fournier
07-11-2011, 2:38 PM
This book is a great first resource for you. There are many many guitar building books out there and in the end you'll likely grab production methods from different places that fit your outlook on building and your shop capacity.

There are great books out there that basically give you specs on famous guitars. They are great to have but typically pretty expensive.

You could go to a school or take courses which is one way to learn. The other road is to spend your money on tonewoods and tools and learn by yourself with the aforementioned books to guide you. In the end you will need tools and wood, tuition is an expense that you can forego.

Make your first guitar using accepted techniques and tonewoods. Boring? Maybe but it will give you your best shot at having an instrument that sounds and plays as a classical is expected to. After you have a guitar under your belt then you can start to tweak the design and material choices, you've got a benchmark to work off of.

Zach England
07-11-2011, 4:23 PM
I think that for the past few days I have spent more time dreaming about the guitar i want to make than practicing with the one I already have...

Chris Fournier
07-11-2011, 5:09 PM
I think that for the past few days I have spent more time dreaming about the guitar i want to make than practicing with the one I already have...

This is what happens. They say that every luthier is really a frustrated guitar player!

Zach England
07-11-2011, 5:53 PM
This is what happens. They say that every luthier is really a frustrated guitar player!

Truth is I only picked guitar because I think my hands are too big to learn violin easily.

John Coloccia
07-11-2011, 6:36 PM
I haven't actually got the Natelson one (everyone seems to refer to it as the Cumpiano book), so you'll have to let me know how it is compared to the Bogdanovich.

It's because Natelson's been out of it for a very long time. William told me something along the lines of he decided he wanted to make money instead of guitars and became a lawyer. I hope I got that right, but he's definitely out of the guitar biz.

Shaun Mahood
07-11-2011, 6:38 PM
It's because Natelson's been out of it for a very long time. William told me something along the lines of he decided he wanted to make money instead of guitars and became a lawyer. I hope I got that right, but he's definitely out of the guitar biz.

Ahh, that makes sense - I always wondered about that.

Shaun Mahood
07-11-2011, 11:48 PM
Zach, I've had a chance to take a look at the books I have.

I made a pretty big mistake in my posts above - I mixed up two of my books.

The book I was referring to above should have been Roy Courtnall's "Making Master Guitars". It's a great read with lots of information, focused on handwork and the traditional way of building guitars. I've read in a few places that the not all of the guitar plans are exactly accurate, but it has been recommended to me by a number of different luthiers as a great book to start with. From the point of view of someone who know nothing but wants to learn to build a guitar the traditional way, this is a book I would absolutely recommend.

The John Bogdanovich book "Classical Guitar Making" seems to be geared towards setting up a production guitar shop, with lots of jigs and machines. I've read a number of luthiers comment that it seemed like a lot more work to build all the jigs than it would be to just build a guitar. It seems like it would be a very good way to get enough production out of your guitar shop in order to feed your family, but it doesn't make sense to me as a way to learn how guitars are made. I want to learn the skills to be able to make a guitar based on Hauser, tweak it in repeated builds until I'm satisfied, and then decide what I want to do next. I would love to be able to build a Panormo or Lacote to play Sor on. I don't think the Bogdanovich book is bad, it's just doesn't talk to me as a way to build guitars.

The other book I have is Rik Middleton's "The Guitar Maker's Workshop". I don't think I got anything out of it that wasn't covered in the other two books. It is much, much smaller (less than half the size of the others).

I'm sure I will refer to all of these books when I get to particular steps, but the Courtnall book is going to be my guide.

Chris Fournier
07-12-2011, 9:37 AM
I believe that Jontahon Natelson was a lawyer when the book was written.

I can't recall the builder but I watched a VHS (gasp) years ago of a Mexican luthier who's go to tool was a knife. He built a lovely guitar with minimal tools to say the least. Of course he made it look easy, a lifetime of practice will do that. I think that it was an LMI VHS offering.

Josiah Bartlett
08-18-2011, 7:25 PM
Truth is I only picked guitar because I think my hands are too big to learn violin easily.

That's why I play the bass, my hands are too big to play guitar. :)

Bill Dillon
09-14-2011, 11:38 AM
Hi Zach, In June I took the three week course Basic Guitar Building at The Vermont Instruments School of Lutherie. The course was absolutely outstanding! George Morris teaches it, only takes five students at one time. You walk in empty handed and leave with a guitar (classical or steel string) which built from scratch with your own hands. I couldn't overstate the value of the course or the competence of George Morris both as builder and teacher. I didn't do it when I was 18. I did it now that I'm 75 and am now building two ukulele's and finishing another classical guitar. I have all of the books that have been mentioned to you, plus a handful more than those, all of which I find helpful. The available forums, such as this one are also decidedly helpful. The classical guitar I built in Vermont and came home with sounds every bit as good as the Spanish made one I've been playing since 1976. The process of building one is every bit as delightful as the finished product.