Brief intro to Shelix

[John Miliunas]

LOML has an affinity to figured woods (me too:) ) and I got a bit tired of all the tearout associated with it. I also didn't cherish the length of time it usually takes me to properly set the blades on my DJ20. So, I finally bit the big one and ordered up a Shelix for the jointer. I'll not bore you with the details of the order, billing and shipping process. That's a whole 'nuther story, which I'd rather not dwell on at present. :rolleyes:

At any rate, once I had all that was necessary in-hand, I proceeded with the installation. No documentation was provided and I only had the parts breakdown sheet from Delta. A statement heard many times before on this forum, kept coming to mind: A jointer, after all, is a relatively simple piece of machinery. With that thought in mind, I attacked it. Considering a few interruptions and my lack of experience in doing the procedure, I still managed to get it accomplished in about two hours. If I were to do it again, I'm sure it would take less time or, for those more mechanically inclined, again a shorter period of time would be involved. Regardless, in my book, it was time very well spent! :) Once installed, the only adjustments necessary were the outfeed, infeed and fence, due to the height of cutting surface was different now than with the stock blades.

For a test, I decided to dive right in and found a nice piece of BE Maple. The piece had pretty significant twist to it, so at first, I thought the sound coming from the jointer may be a bit misleading. What I mean by that is more like the lack of sound coming from the jointer. Quiet! And I do mean quiet!:D I kept at it until I got the twist out, which now meant full contact with the board, at about 6" across. Still quiet! I pencil marked the length of it and shot it through one more time. She cleaned right up AND, absolutely zero tearout! I then ran it through the planer and, once I made contact across the entire width, I adjusted the cut for a couple thousandths and set the feed rate to slow. Still encountered a lot of tearout, with relatively sharp knives. :( OK, took the side back over to the jointer and two light passes and smooth as a baby's behind! A swipe with some mineral spirits didn't reveal *any* noticeable machine marks! :D Yup, I'm happy! If anyone is so inclined and particularly does a lot of work with figured woods, this may be one of the best solutions out there!:cool:

[Dan Racette]

Looks great!

No lines, huh?

I know most of us wouldn't mind a quieter machine!

Keep the updates coming.

Dan

[John Miliunas]

Looks great!

No lines, huh?

I know most of us wouldn't mind a quieter machine!

Keep the updates coming.

Dan
Dan, you're close enough to get a personal audio and visual experience of it, you know! :D Come on up!:) :cool:

[Jim Becker]

Nasty lookin' thang....but I hear the cut is wonderful. Congratulations on a great upgrade to a great jointer!! But, of course...we now expect a long string of awesome figured wood projects from you, John. The pressure is on!! :D

[Chris Padilla]

John,

Can you post some pics of the BE with the alcohol swipe to show us that there really are no lines? I have head that you could see them but that was only "heard" and not seen.

Congrats...that is awesome. I'd love one for the FS-41 Elite but that is a WAYs away if ever.... :D

Also, I heard the feed pressure is significantly less with a cutterhead like yours. This is great...nice buy. I have a TON of figured maple...we'll see how the Tersa FS41 head handles it....

[Jeff Sudmeier]

John,

Congrats on the gloat!! I knew I should know your gloat this morning, but I could not think of what it could be :)

[Andy London]

Thanks for the post, just fired an email off to them. Most of my work is in figured/exotic wood and although the planer works fine on finish speed, my jointer doesn't fair so well with these woods......About how long did it take to install on the DJ20, did they have one in stock, any tips??

Thanks!
Andy

[Dennis Peacock]

Congrats John!!!!! Nice upgrade and thanks for the review!!!! Very well done and very informative. Thank you. :D

[Jason Tuinstra]

Good review John. Thanks! I love figured wood as well so this might come in quite handy in time.

[John Miliunas]

Thanks for the kind comments, gents! I'm pretty tickled with it.:)

Andy, about 2 hours, give or take for the actual install. Remember, this is coming from a guy who is not exactly a mechanical genius! Also, when I ordered mine, it wasn't in stock and I waited a little over 3 weeks for it.

Chris, don't know how much this pic will help, as the alcohol just doesn't do the wood justice, but here 'ya go. LOML actually took the piece I did last night to show someone at work and it's still in her car with her at some crochet class! So, I just grabbed a 4" piece I had laying around and did it. You can kind of see where the wetness from the wipe is present (left side of pic). Like I said, I just couldn't see any tooling marks. The real test will come when I hit a piece with some Velvit Oil!

[John Shuk]

John,,
Is that a custom made item? I do have the new to me big jointer and that may be in it's future. I shudder to think how much a 12" version might be.
John

[John Miliunas]

John, it's "custom" in the sense that it's not a largely stocked item, so sometimes you may have to wait for it. In my case, I happen to know that Byrd has been making the DJ20 cutterhead for at least a couple years. BTW, a 12" jointer cutterhead is just under $900.00 big ones! I don't know what 12" jointer blades go for, but the genuine Delta blades for the DJ20 go at almost $90.00 a pop! With 4 individual cutting surfaces on the Shelix, that equals four blade changes, which almost pays for the whole thing!:) :cool:

[John Shuk]

I can see the value there but $900 is a lot of dough. I think that may be a way off in the future. Although sometimes in my twisted mind I obsess on things until I have to have them!

[nic obie]

John,

How many rows of cutters does it have? The imports (which are square to the rotation of the cutterhead and prolly not the way to go) only seem to have 4 rows. At least that is what I've been able to figure out by looking at the pictures.

So far, so good. I'll wait a few more days in order to see what else you say, then most likely will order one.

Thanks for the info... :)

Nic

[John Miliunas]

John,

How many rows of cutters does it have? The imports (which are square to the rotation of the cutterhead and prolly not the way to go) only seem to have 4 rows. At least that is what I've been able to figure out by looking at the pictures.

So far, so good. I'll wait a few more days in order to see what else you say, then most likely will order one.

Thanks for the info... :)

Nic
Nic, for the DJ20 (and most other 8" units I assume) there are six rows of 8 cutter inserts. I've got a fair amount of Cherry to mill up later this week or on the weekend and may get a bit better idea of total performance. Thus far, from a performance standpoint, this thing ROCKS!:) :cool:

[Erik Rudd]

Sounds to me like your next purchase is for a shelix for your planer.:D

[John Miliunas]

Sounds to me like your next purchase is for a shelix for your planer.:D
Eric, tempting indeed, but from what I can see, they don't manufacture one for the Dewalt 735. If they did, you'd probably be right!:D :cool:

[Alan Turner]

I also have the Shelix on my jointer. It is a 12" jointer with 6 rows of inserts. 4.25" dia. cutterhead. Mine was $1200, but had to be specially made as my jointer is from 1925, and undoubtedly was changed over from a babitted machine at some time by installing beefy pillow blocks. So, I dropped the head off, with pillow blocks still attached, and sent it to them as a unit, and got back a fully machined, new Shelix head, with fresh bearings (extra), and installed it with the 4 bolts I had removed to drop the assembly out of the tool. I think the custom work such as mine is more expensive than the standard fare where they are already jigged up for it.
As John says, pretty amazing. Even in chippy wood where the grain reverses and gets really steep at points, there is essentially no tearout. For me the hardest wood to work is curly bubinga, and on this there is zero tearout.
I am thinking about installing the head on my 4 post 20" planer, but the head is more than the jointer, and a lot of work, and I can't decide if I should await a better planer.
In terms of longevity, I don't do softwoods, and so pitch is generally not an issue. Byrd says the plants it sells to get about 1.0M running feet out of a single side of the inserts, so absent a nail, I may never have to rotate mine.
Alan

[Chris Padilla]

Very nice, very nice. I shudder to think what a 16" cutterhead would run...2k I bet...probably more!

[Pete Lamberty]

Eric, tempting indeed, but from what I can see, they don't manufacture one for the Dewalt 735. If they did, you'd probably be right!:D :cool:

I have an easy solution to your problem, John. Just buy yourself a new planer.

[Dan Racette]

byrdtool's website has all the prices listed. click on jointers and planers.

[John Shuk]

Sure thanks alot guys. I'm starting to feel like I have to have this. You had to go and tell me to check out the website. Now I just have to figure out which nagging feeling to ignore. The one telling me to get the tool or the one my wife is going to give me when I do buy it!

[John Miliunas]

Sure thanks alot guys. I'm starting to feel like I have to have this. You had to go and tell me to check out the website. Now I just have to figure out which nagging feeling to ignore. The one telling me to get the tool or the one my wife is going to give me when I do buy it!
Well, being the polite types we are, you're most certainly welcome, John!:D :cool:

[Dave Richards]

John, that's a cool head you've got there. I just got an e-mail from Popular Woodworking--one of their monthly things. There was a short thing about a similar cutter head from Sunhill. Link to Sunhill if that's not against the rules. (http://sunhillmachinery.com/Conversion%20Page.htm) An 8" head from them is regularly $475 and is on sale for $415. 6" reg. $365, sale $318.50.

I called Sunhill to find out how much replacement carbide cutters cost--$3.00/ea.

I have no experience with Sunhill or this product. I'm only relaying what I read. Maybe one of our more adventurous would like to give this a go and see how well they work.

[Gary Sutherland]

Dave:

I believe the heads Sunhill sells ARE Byrd heads.

gary

[John Miliunas]

John, that's a cool head you've got there. I just got an e-mail from Popular Woodworking--one of their monthly things. There was a short thing about a similar cutter head from Sunhill. Link to Sunhill if that's not against the rules. (http://sunhillmachinery.com/Conversion%20Page.htm) An 8" head from them is regularly $475 and is on sale for $415. 6" reg. $365, sale $318.50.

I called Sunhill to find out how much replacement carbide cutters cost--$3.00/ea.

I have no experience with Sunhill or this product. I'm only relaying what I read. Maybe one of our more adventurous would like to give this a go and see how well they work.
Dave, as Gary points out, they ARE actually a Byrd Tool product. As a matter of fact, they are drop-shipped directly from Byrd! I got mine through the company in question for $398.00, so they've already raised the price!:mad: Byrd's regular price on it is, I believe, right around $450.00. I know $35.00 bucks is $35.00 bucks, but for the difference in price, I'd probably go directly to Byrd, but that's just MHO. I'll not go into it any further than that here on the forum.:) :cool:

[Corvin Alstot]

Byrd says the plants it sells to, get about 1.0M running feet out of a single side of the inserts, so absent a nail, I may never have to rotate mine.
Alan
It looks like it is expense to replace the cutters (around $10 for ea.), or $480 for the DJ-20, if my math is right. If you can use all four sides it would appear that the high cost is offset by the longevity.

[Chris Padilla]

Way back when I asked Byrd for a quote for my FS41-Elite. I guess they are still figuring it out.... :rolleyes:

[John Miliunas]

It looks like it is expense to replace the cutters (around $10 for ea.), or $480 for the DJ-20, if my math is right. If you can use all four sides it would appear that the high cost is offset by the longevity.
Corvin, if the individual cutters were $10.00/ea., then your math is correct. They're actually $30.40 per 10-count. That figures up in the area of $150.00, if/when one needs to replace all of them. The unit already shipped with an extra set of 10 cutters!:) :cool:

[nic obie]

Dave:

I believe the heads Sunhill sells ARE Byrd heads.

gary


It looks like Sunhill sells both types

8" spiral - $229 (I think this is what Grizzly uses)
8" helical - $415

http://sunhillmachinery.com/Spiral%20Cutter%20Conversion.htm
http://sunhillmachinery.com/Conversion%20Page.htm

[John Miliunas]

It looks like Sunhill sells both types

8" spiral - $229 (I think this is what Grizzly uses)
8" helical - $415

http://sunhillmachinery.com/Spiral%20Cutter%20Conversion.htm
http://sunhillmachinery.com/Conversion%20Page.htm
How about that! I think you're absolutely correct on that, Nic. With only 3 rows of cutters and those set perpendicular to the material, I don't see a whole lot of advantage in the actual cut. Maintenance would be easier, IMHO and it probably is quieter, as well. In the final analysis, though, it appears to me that in that configuration, you're doing almost exactly what the regular blades do, albeit, in much smaller bites. You're still taking 3 perpendicular cuts per revolution, although they look like they're a bit staggered. Don't know. I imagine there may be some performance increase. Guess if I were to start all over again, I'd buy the same one I already bought!:D :cool: