need a good square cut on a 4" thick billet.. suggestions??

[David Coburn]

I need to make a very precise cut of a 4" x 4" x 50" glue-up. Think of it as a perfect 4by4 of hard maple that is 50" long. I need to cut both ends such that they will be perfectly square to the 50" sides. In other words I should be able to put a good combination square on the base and its' length run flat against the sides (on all four sides)...

My problem is by table-saw (where I would normally make this cut) only comes up about 3" so that won't handle it. The tools that I have available to me are as follows:
1) standard 10" cabinet saw
2) 18" Rikon bandsaw
3) Pretty decent router table setup
4) lots of hand tools and power tools
5) Planer, Jointer, Drill press, Lathe (but I don't see how these would apply)

I also can most likely find a local cabinet shop or something where I can make the cut if I have to.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

thanks,
david

[David Peterson]

Can't you just use the table saw? First pass can get you over half way there. Flip it and finish the cut from the other side? I did this a lot before getting a bandsaw. You'll want to devise a stop of some kind to make sure the second cut is precisely in line with the first. A sled would help with that size stock. With a good sharp blade the table saw will give you the cleanest cut with a minimum amount of clean up.

[David Coburn]

That's where I'm at right now, but in all honesty this really isn't very precise, IMO... IF everything is absolutely square... blade to table (90dg), sled to blade (90), absolutely no slop in sled in slots (maybe yours, not mine), billet is absolutely parallel and flat, etc... All of the these issues (and more) just become more problematic when you flip the billet...


Maybe I'm being a bit type 1 about this, but we're talking wood here, not steel... and we're talking woodworking tools not machine tools... I just think the cut would be considerably more precise if I could do it with either a single cut or some innovative jig or approach that I haven't thought of...

I may be exactly at where you suggest in the final analysis and simply have to take great care with it... but I thought I would throw the question out there first.

thanks,
david

[Kent A Bathurst]

How's about this option:

Cross-cut as deep as you can with the TS, then finish the cut with a handsaw? Probably leave the hand-cut 1" section slightly proud, and go at it with a handplane to get the full end cut dead-nuts flat.

[Lee Schierer]

Mark your piece all the way around for your cut line. If your miter gauge is sloppy in the miter slot, then get rid of the slop by putting some UHMW tape on the sides of the miter bar. Or make a good cut off sled that fits the miter slots. Then make the first cut on your TS. Rotate the piece 90 degrees so the cut faces the blade and with the saw off carefully align the cut with the blade teeth. Make the second pass and rotate the piece once more aligning the cut with the teeth. Make the final cut and you should have a perfectly flat ans square end. Try this the first time closer to the end of the piece than where you want the finished cut to be.

[glenn bradley]

That's where I'm at right now, but in all honesty this really isn't very precise, IMO... IF everything is absolutely square... blade to table (90dg), sled to blade (90), absolutely no slop in sled in slots (maybe yours, not mine), billet is absolutely parallel and flat, etc... All of the these issues (and more) just become more problematic when you flip the billet...

If you use a stop to set the billet position, flipping the piece should be no problem. If your saw alignment and sled stability are as you describe, maybe there is a reliable machine nearby that you could make a few cuts on(?). An accurately aligned tablesaw and sled would be my choice. I clamp a stop block to my fence (or rig something else if the reach is beyond my fence) to allow an exact repeat of my blank's position.

On longer pieces as you describe I make sure I have good support all the way through the cut. Forcing your stock to "stay still" while performing a cut is a sure invitation to inaccuracy. With the stock well supported and a reliable setup "stop", I would not hesitate to cut 2-1/16", flip the blank and finish the cut.

P.s. your stop block would have to be sized to meet the entire end of the blank as I assume the end is not currently square enough to use as a reference except by the "most proud" point. That is; You want to be sure that whatever part of the blank you are referencing from is always used as the reference point.

[John McClanahan]

I agree with others on using the table saw. As you know, if the blade isn't at true 90 deg. it will leave a mark. You can minimize this somewhat by setting the blade to cut thru just over half way for each cut, rather than cutting most of the way then flipping.

[David Coburn]

Thanks everyone.... several good ideas above to integrate into the cut... Looks like the sled (improved with a little UHMW tape to get rid of the slop), cut half way, flip, finish off with my saw, plane to flat....

Don't see how I can use a stop block though since my billet is 50" long and my sled is maybe 20" to the left of the blade....

Glen, you said " Forcing your stock to "stay still" while performing a cut is a sure invitation to inaccuracy"... Could you go into this a bit more, please?

[Neil Brooks]

Count me in the camp that says -- in effect -- if your TS isn't capable of doing this (other than pure depth-of-cut reasons), that it's time to whip that thing into shape :)

Otherwise ... I'd like my shop to be capable of doing about 95% of what I need to do. For the other 5%, I'm happy to call the local cabinet shops and toss a few bucks and a few beers their way for things like this, if they ARE beyond the capacity of my shop.

Good luck !

[Rod Sheridan]

One of the local cabinet shops will have a 12 inch or larger sliding saw capable of making the cut in one pass.

That's what I would do...........Rod.

[David Peterson]

I would screw a 55" member to the sled to act as a temporary fence, then clamp my stock securely to that. This would provide a mount for a stop block. Supporting the outside length is going to be important. An adjustable height roller stand might help.

[Justin Chen]

How about using one of those edge clamp guides and circular saw?

Miter saw with appropriate side supports?

[Neil Brooks]

How about using one of those edge clamp guides and circular saw?

Miter saw with appropriate side supports?

I like these ideas, too.

I could easily do this with my 1956 DeWalt MBF radial arm saw, but only because I know it's dialed in for perfect crosscuts.

[Frank Drew]

You can often mount a larger blade than a saw's nominal size, it just won't retract all the way below the saw's top (but you don't care about that in this case.) You could cut a 12" disc from plywood, bore a hole for the arbor, then see if this would work on your machine.

But if this is just one 4x4, two cuts, then, as others have mentioned, the easiest thing might be to find a local shop with a saw that could handle it, accurately, in one cut.

[Steve Jenkins]

David, If you want, you are welcome to come by and I'll cut it for you. We can do it in one pass on my table saw. I wouldn't charge you anything to do it. My number is 469 742-9694. I'm about 10 miles east of McKinney past New Hope.

[David Coburn]

Well, I want to publicly say "thanks" to Steve Jenkins. I went out to Steve's shop and he cut all four of the columns for me (two cuts each). He's a super nice guy, has a really fine shop, and just a sweet setup in general out there in the country.

Thanks again Steve.

david

[Thomas Canfield]

Can't you find someone with a 12" miter saw to chop it for you. A full 4" would exceed a 10" miter saw I think.

[Neil Brooks]

Can't you find someone with a 12" miter saw to chop it for you. A full 4" would exceed a 10" miter saw I think.

He did find another Creeker to cut it for him :)

[Jim Neeley]

Assuming you could get two sides perfectly parallel you could run the piece through at max depth, roll it over and make the second cut about 1/16" long and then use a router with a flush cutting bit (bearing at the tip) to bring the surface perfectly flush.

I did something similar to the end of my 3-3/4" x 3' x 7' workbench top perfectly square after glue-up, I:

Used a large square to make a perfect 90* line,
Clamped a straightedge to the top, offset by the width of my router base,
Used the router with a straight bit to make a cut about 2-1/4" deep.
Roll the top upside down and use a bearing-guided flush cut bit (with the bearing riding against the fresh-cut surface) to bring it all flush.
Worked like a charm!!

As for me, I'd take Steve up on his generous offer!!! :-)

Jim

[pat warner]

Disk or edge/radius sander will fix the saw mess and square to ninty, no problem.

[Scot Ferraro]

You can also use the bandsaw and get very square cuts as long as the edges are parallel. First cut the face at 90 degrees and then rotate it and use the kerf from this cut to guide the cut on the bandsaw. I think that there are some videos on Youtube that show the procedure. The cut and flip technique works too with a router cleanup on the edge.

Scot

[Carl Beckett]

Glad you got the job done David, and great of Steve to help out.

This is what I love about this forum - a couple of strangers with similar interests, get together to help each other out (sharing, learning, friendship even)

Perhaps the best site on the internet in this regard - thanks to the moderators, and thanks to the community for keeping it this way (so many sites just turn to junk)

:)

[Aaron Berk]

I know this issue has since been solved, but I'd just like to put a shout out to all my fellow Radial Arm Saw owners who never have to deal with this type of problem:D

4" cut? no sweat:cool:

I can justify a RAS in 100 different ways:)


Hijack over;)

[Josiah Bartlett]

If your lathe bed was long enough, it wouldn't be irrelevant- you could chuck the billet up in the lathe and then use your favorite parting tool to square up the ends. Commonly done in metal working when you need a precisely square end on a rectangular or cylindrical object.