I need blades for slitting gauges

[Harlan Barnhart]

I recently made some gauges. I used an abandoned jigsaw blade for the panel gauge but I would like something heavier for the smaller gauges since I want to use them more as slitting gauges. About 1/8" thick and 1/4" wide would be perfect. Any ideas?

200905

200903

[Trevor Walsh]

I think this is a common size piece of bar stock for o1 or w1, check out McMaster.com search "steel" then Bar, sheet, plate and narrow your sizes/ alloy from there. Both heat treat friendly in the home shop. With pieces this small you can grind, cut off from the bar, grip with pliers and heat, quench, then brighten up a spot to watch the temper with a torch. I might even be tempted to leave them untempered for this sort of situation. If you need more, I could do a little demo, I have some o1 bar around someplace.

[Matt Evans]

Just a thought. . .

Spade bits make great blades. Needle files can do pretty well too, as long as they are supported well. (the files are a little more brittle than the spade bits.)

Trevor is correct, O1 is found in those sizes rather commonly, and there are a bunch of online vendors of steel of every grade.

Yet another thought (or five). . .HSS drill bits, the twist type. . .They grind flat rather well, and hold an edge Old steel Circular saw blades work too, but you want to score the blade and then snap it, more like cutting glass than cutting metal.

[Richard Line]

Another option is to cut them out of old circular saw blades. It isn't very hard to cut with a hack saw and the stock is reasonably hard to make a blade. I've made a marking knife from a piece of the circ. blade.

[george wilson]

Hacksaw blades would likely be about an ideal thickness for what you want to do. If it is possible to find "all hard" blades(which are still made,but not commonly found) the blade would have better hardness for your purposes. Blue steel bandsaw blades would be an even better source,actually. They have more even hardness throughout,more like a spring temper. Hard enough to be able to be filed,but still holding a decent edge.

If you have a crosscut or rip saw that is beyond restoration,especially an OLD saw,it would be excellent. To cut it,place the blade in a smooth jawed machinist's vise. Hold a sharp cold chisel downwards against the blade to be cut,so that its cutting edge is down right against the top of the vise's jaws. Hit the end of the chisel with a hammer. It will shear through the blade by cracking the blade more than by cutting it. Get the chisel's edge through the blade,and move it sideways while still hammering to continue the shear. Strive to bend the blade as little as possible while doing this. You can hammer out minor bends on small pieces of saw blade steel.

[Harlan Barnhart]

Wow. So many good ideas... Thanks guys. I work in the kitchen of my apartment so I probably shouldn't be attempting any heat treating. I suppose the jigsaw blade I used was hardened but I probably took the temper out by grinding the bevels. It seems to work fine for a marking.

[Pam Niedermayer]

You may want to check out these kebiki blades, (http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&dept_id=12996) about halfway down the page.

Pam

[Wes Grass]

Electric stove? W-1, lay it on the burner on high until the color matches and quench in water. Not hard, turn it down a couple notches. No smoke, no stink.

[Terry Beadle]

I bought a kebiki blade for a home made gauge about 3 years ago. It was $10 then. Let's see...my math may be folly... Price now is $14 or a 40% increase. Ouch! The gauge is still working great...should have bought several thousand and put them in a 401k ( don't tell Wall Street ! )

Sounds like a visit to McMaster Carr would be a smart frugal decision.

Mr. Grass's suggestion sounds like a niffty way to go too.

[george wilson]

I suppose mr. Grass's suggestion would work for small,thin blades. I think he must have it backwards,though. If the blade doesn't get hard,turn the burner UP. You want the blade to get as red hot as the burner. Quench in water,holding the blade vertical as you plunge it in. Polish off the surface till you see shiny steel,then hat it on a burner on LOW,until the blade turns a light brown color(called straw) if you want a spring,heat it until it is blue. Above blue,it turns gray,which is fully softened again. After you harden the blade,test it with a file to make sure you got it too hard to file. IF it won't file,then go ahead and temper the blade to brown. If it does file,you didn't get it red hot,or didn't get it into the water fast enough. Small blades cool very quickly,so you need to be fast getting it into the quench.

[Ray Gardiner]

Hi Harlan,

Lawn mower blades. The short flat type. The ones available here are some kind of (high?) carbon steel.

Make sure you can get a decent sharp edge on the material before investing too much time on it. Cut out the shape you want with a dremel, or whatever you have available.

Personally I would go get some O1 tool steel from victor.net http://www.victornet.com/report/Flat-Ground-Stock-up-to-1-8-quot-thick-/91.html
But since you are limited in not being able to do much in the way of heat treatment, that's why I suggest take a look at what you can find by way of lawn mower blades.

Regards
Ray

[Zach England]

I have a few blanks of 01 tool steel and I could send you a few small pieces if they are the size you are looking for. If you are interested PM me and I will check the sizes tonight when I get home.

[Joe Fabbri]

There seems to be a lot of options for this, but to add another, you could maybe use an old sawsall blade. Some of the larger blades are probably close to 1/8 inch thick. I'm not sure how great the steel is, but probably pretty good for what you need to do. I have a few old broken blade laying around fo when I make a knife marking guage.

Joe

[Wes Grass]

I'm thinking my stove elements may be too hot for W-1, at an orange color. But I don't know, maybe not hot enough. Can't remember the last time I did anything with water hardening steel. And the last time I did anything in oil it was 416 stainless, which turns out to air harden just fine too in small pieces.

Worth a try ... if you already have some material laying around.

[george wilson]

The trouble with using things like Sawzall blades,or hacksaw blades,is that the teeth may be hardened more than the body of the blade. They do this to avoid getting sued if a blade shatters in someone's eye. Starrett does make all hard blades,but you'd probably have to special order them by the dozen to get any. Any time I run across NOS all hard power hacksaw blades I buy them. They are solid HSS and make good kitchen knives. Usually they are .050" thick. Got some off Ebay a few months ago.

In the case of blades that have HSS teeth welded on,like some bandsaw blades,the rest of the blade's body is probably not going to harden,being a lower carbon steel. Bandsaw blades of the old,cheaper,all blue variety will be the same steel all the way across.

[Joe Fabbri]

Hi Georgie,

Yeah, that's a good point, about only the teeth being hard. I suppose if you were going to temper it yourself, things like sawzall blades might be okay as a starting point.

I have a few snapped older blades (and these are probably 20+ years old). They might be hardened all the way, hence its snapping. So maybe the older variety blades are worthwhile for one to use.

Regarding lawn mower blades, these are probably only hardened on the cutting areas right? But I guess the whole blade would be a good steel if you want to temper (say in order to make a thick plane iron)?

[george wilson]

I USED to know what lawn mower blades were made from. Google around and you can find out. They certainly aren't hardened very much. If they were,they'd snap right off when they hit a snag. I bent one of my blades hitting tree roots. Had to beat the devil out of it on the anvil (cold) to get it back straight. They file easily,too. Not very hard.

About the Sawzall blades: There is a lot of selective hardening done these days,so the teeth could be hardened,but the body left softer.BUT,they also do a lot of just welding the teeth onto softer steel bodies. If that's the case,you'd never get the bodies to harden. Selective hardening is done so much. I was asked to grind the rocker arm shaft of a Volvo engine years ago. It turned out that the shaft was hardened ONLY where the rockers bore against it. This possibly was done to keep the shaft from snapping in unsupported areas.

[Jim Matthews]

I use these from Duluth trading (http://www.duluthtrading.com/store/product/10-pk-circle-cutter-replacement-blades-78010.aspx?kw=blade&processor=content).

[Harlan Barnhart]

Jim, those circle cutter blades from Duluth trading look interesting. Do have any on hand to measure? It would be nice to know the exact dimensions.

[Harlan Barnhart]

More interesting ideas from everyone. I find the circular saw blade option attractive since I have some around. Can anyone tell me how hard they are? Will they take a good edge? The jigsaw blade works well for marking but I want something really sharp to do deep scoring.

[Harlan Barnhart]

You may want to check out these kebiki blades, (http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&dept_id=12996) about halfway down the page.

Pam

Thanks Pam. I like those. $14 is a little more than I had in mind but I'm considering it...

[Pam Niedermayer]

Thanks Pam. I like those. $14 is a little more than I had in mind but I'm considering it...

And it gets worse when you have to pay for shipping if you can't find some other stuff to pad out the order; but these blades are made for slitting/cutting. I'd also think about repurposing an inept chisel. And then there's Woodcraft, if one is nearby, they have Japanese tools.

Pam

[Richard Line]

I made a marking knife from a circular saw blade. It has made a good knife blade, without any hardening. The saw blade I used was one with hardened teeth, not the typical carbide teeth, so the plate's steel may be pretty good quality and would harden just fine. I got the idea of using the circular saw blade from a book (Tool-Making Projects for Joinery and Woodworking, by Steve A. Olesin). In the book they also suggested using them to make plane irons. It says HSS circular saw blades are in the Rc50+ range, carbide tipped blades are softer, but still acceptable.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Note, Japan WW is offering free shipping until Monday (promo code SHIP50) for all orders of at least $50. They also sell a lot of western tools. Really not trying to convince you to take one course of action or the other, just letting you know.

Pam

[John Coloccia]

Harlan: You live in Queens. Hop on the BQE and drop in on Joel at Tools For Working Wood some time next week. He may well have something laying around that can help you.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

My first thought when I saw this was replacable paint scraper blades - the ones I've seen are some kind of high carbon steel, and seem to be the same all the way through. Sure, the bevel's on the wrong side, but a little work with a grinder and you'd be okay. If you get 'em at an actual paint store, they often come quite thick.

[John Coloccia]

My first thought when I saw this was replacable paint scraper blades - the ones I've seen are some kind of high carbon steel, and seem to be the same all the way through. Sure, the bevel's on the wrong side, but a little work with a grinder and you'd be okay. If you get 'em at an actual paint store, they often come quite thick.

Funny. My first thought was putty knife blade. LOL.

[Harlan Barnhart]

Harlan: You live in Queens. Hop on the BQE and drop in on Joel at Tools For Working Wood some time next week. He may well have something laying around that can help you.
John, I love going to TFWW. I don't get there too often since I am usually working during working hours.

[Harlan Barnhart]

My first thought when I saw this was replacable paint scraper blades - the ones I've seen are some kind of high carbon steel, and seem to be the same all the way through. Sure, the bevel's on the wrong side, but a little work with a grinder and you'd be okay. If you get 'em at an actual paint store, they often come quite thick.
Hmmm... I'll look at those next trip to the hardware store.

[Harlan Barnhart]

I went with the kebiki blades from Japan Woodworker, as suggested by Pam. I'm happy with the results. At some point, I will probably regrind the bevel for right-hand use.

[Terry Beadle]

Kudo's to you....nice looking gauges !

The tightening knob on top is a neat touch. I "assume" there's a brass insert in the gauge head that it treads into?

[Harlan Barnhart]

Thanks Terry. There is a regular 1/4 by 20 brass hex nut captured in the body of the gauge.

[Bryan Schwerer]

Masonry nails are hardened because they must go into concrete. They are about an 1/8" thick. Even though they are hardened, ground them down to use as blades for marking knives.

They look like this.
http:// http://www.mazenails.com/catalog/catalog.php?page=PAGE28&group=CUT2 (http://%20http://www.mazenails.com/catalog/catalog.php?page=PAGE28&group=CUT2)

Although these are called a flooring nail. They should be available in any BORG as masonry nails.

[Pam Niedermayer]

They look real good, Harlan, glad the JWW blades worked for you.

Pam