Jointer vs TS/Planer question.

[Jerry Olexa]

I've a fairly well equipped but modest shop with the basic power tools but have always been a "holdout" on the jointer. I reasoned (maybe wrongly) that I can carefully straighten the board edges w my Table saw and then do the flat surfaces on my planer. I'm aware of the ongoing debate over what's more important (jointer or planer), or which one you can do without. (Some say BOTH are essential). Would love your opinions as I will be making a decision soon. Specifically:
1. Do you need a jointer?
2. Merits of jointer vs planer
3. What are size/brand recos for a hobbyist shop? Best bang for the buck?
4. What should I look for when evaluating one?

The gentleman that sold me the Jet Mortiser last night has a "like new" Jet 6" cabinet syle "gold" available at an attractive price. Wasn't really in the market for a jointer but good opportunity. LMK your thoughts. Thanks!

[John Hulett]

Jerry,

Mine is certainly not the voice of experience, but I'm in a similar position in that I feel that a jointer and/or planer are probably next on the list of major-ish shop purchases. Having qualified my opionion, here is my line of thinking: After reading a recent thread that basically said, even purchasing S4S stock, it is rarely flat/strait. There were a couple of suggestions to have the lumber milled, either by the lumber seller, or renting time at some shop. Well, I called my local lumber dealer, who redirected me to another local dealer. This second yard has full milling capabilities, but there are a couple of drawbacks: 1) lumber must be purchased from this yard, 2) lumber at this yard is moderately more expensive than the other, 3) their milling fees are, IMO, expensive: Planer = $25 setup fee + $0.14/BF, Jointer = $5 setup fee + $0.19/BF.

It seems to me that both tools/operations are essential if you want to work with square, strait material. With the given information, it seems that the planer would pay for itself in just a few projects. For me, it looks like the Delta 580 Planer is next on the list, as the Jointer fees seem easier to swallow. If I ran accross a "golden" oportunity on a Jointer, that might change those priorities. I'm sure by now you know what the going rate on a jointer would be; $400 on up for a jointer, so armed with that knowledge, that might make your decision easier.

Like you, I anxiously await opinions from more qualified folks, here.

[Mark Singer]

You kinda need them all! Any complete shop needs a joiter and planer. To make edges and faces smooth and straight. You can straightline with a router and straight edge...it is a hassle. Planner insures the same thickness...a good drum sander could do that as well. These tools are essential and save time over handtool techniques.

[Ted Shrader]

1. Do you need a jointer?
No/Yes Per your argument, you can use the TS to straighten the edge. However, it is more difficult to flatten the board. One can build a sled and use a router to flatten one surface.

2. Merits of jointer vs planer.
With a lunchbox planer, the downward pressure from the rollers is not as great as a larger planer. Without this downward presure, flattening with a planer can be done. Edge joint with a planer is next to impossible.

3. What are size/brand recos for a hobbyist shop?
I'm using a 6" PM50 jointer and getting along OK. 12" Ryobi lunchbox and 15" PM jointer. Task kind of determines which gets used. Best bang for the buck?Look for used. Or a good deal from somebody selling mortising machines. :) Otherwise, Wilke Machinery - Bridgewood, Yorkcraft; Grizzly, etc

[Andy Pedler]

The planer is next up on the big tool list for me. However, I'll put a quick vote in for another low-end jointer option; the Tradesman from Lowe's. I'm a newbie and I certainly am not an expert in evaluating jointers, but this one has worked nicely for me, and it comes in under $200. I've had no trouble with it, and unlike many tools, the manual that comes with it is clear and has thorough instructions for setting the alignment, etc.

[Steven Wilson]

You don't "need" a jointer and planer but you must have the capability to perform their functions. I often use a hand plane for edge jointing as it's fast and simple to do, quiet too! Having said that, I had a 6" jointer but found the tables to be too short for how I like to work so I moved up to an 8" jointer. One of the last pieces I upgraded was my lunchbox planer. When I upgraded it I also upgraded the jointer, now I have a 14" jointer/planer (as part of a combo machine) that takes all of 1 minute to change the knives on (Tersa cutterhead)

[Jeff Sudmeier]

You don't NEED a jointer, but it sure is handy. I don't use mine for the intial flatening of boards, but I do use it for edge jointing. You can use the planer for flatening, by taking small bites. If you are getting by with your table saw, you probably really don't NEED one, but it is nice :)

[Jim Becker]

IMHO, a jointer is an essential corner of the work triangle for good and consistant joinery. Although I believe that one should have the biggest, baddest jointer they can find, even a 6" jointer will bring a world of difference to your work once you learn how to use it and put it to use. Remember, jointers are not just for straightening edges...more importantly, they provide a means to get one face perfectly flat so that when you process the ajoining edge, it can be a true 90º to that flat face.

[Dan Gill]

I got a planer before I got a jointer, and worked without a jointer for a couple of years. I like having the jointer, but it is possible to do without it. I have been buying skip-planed lumber and it is (mostly) flat. With a jointer, I can now use wood I couldn't have before.

One other thing - you only have to look at Jim Becker's avatar to see he's a jointer fan - he jointed two edges of his face! :D

[Alan Tolchinsky]

jointer for awhile. I have a 6" Jet jointer but I can do without it on short pieces. These I hand plane expecially when they're over 6" wide. It definitely takes some effort to prepare wood without a jointer. If you want to use rough lumber a jointer/planer combination will make life a lot easier. I can't see owning a planer without the jointer. Even using a sled in the planer seems like a pain if you're doing a fair amount of wood prep.

[Jim Becker]

One other thing - you only have to look at Jim Becker's avatar to see he's a jointer fan - he jointed two edges of his face!
At least I didn't flatten the face first...;)

[Tom Saurer]

You can do without either, but then you would need to buy other tools to get the job done. No one doubts the need to have straight, square stock. It's a must. How you get there is up to you.

A planer and a jointer would probably be the best, fastest, and most expensive option.

You could buy a jointer and then a drum sander to do the thickness planing.

You could buy a planer and then build a sled to do the jointing work with the planer and one for the table saw to do the edge.

You could buy the planer and then a hand plane, scrub plane would be the best, to flatten the stock, with the above mentioned table saw jig for edging.

Any of the four options will work. It's up to you to decide which one to do. It all depends on shop space, money, etc. I personally do the last option, because I don't do this for a living and don't have the space or the money.

[James Carmichael]

I agree that both is best, but I was thinking the other night if I had to pick between a 12-13" planer or 6" jointer, this would be my criteria:

For projects using longer stock (> 5'), I find the planer a necessity, or, if I need to thickness a lot of boards. You can make a jointer sled for flattening, but it looks slow and tedious compared to a real jointer.

If I were going to be doing small projects, I'd opt for the jointer. This occurred to me as I worked a Valentine picture frame for LOML. Since I only needed 1 fairly short board for the whole thing, it was faster to thickness on the jointer than to go setup the planer. Again, though, I wouldn't want to do very many boards that way, besides, the planer puts a nicer finish on them.

I guess either machine will do both jobs, but not real well.

[Colin Gilkes]

It's interesting, both here and in the US, woodworkers seem to fall into two categories.

The first is the "traditional/craftsman" woodworker who espouses the use of handtools over powertools whilst the second are the guys (like many of us) who could not live without their toys (oops, sorry I meant to say powertools)

For example, I'm just advertising two old hand planes (inherited from my Dad) on ebay so that I can fund the purchase of a thicknesser (having already purchased a jointer) yet I would love to get to grips with these tools but simply don't have the time/inclination given the opportunity to get things done so much quicker.

[Charlie Plesums]

When I had a 6 inch jointer, I often just squared the edge of boards on the table saw. With a good rip fence and a good blade on a well-adjusted saw, the saw can do as well (or better) than a cheap jointer.

Flattening the face of the board is another issue. The planer will make two sides parallel, but not necessarily flat. However, if you buy premium hardwood, it is normally wider than 6 inches (FAS grade must be at least 6 inches wide). Therefore I was planning to upgrade my 6 inch jointer to at least 8 inches.

I lost control. Now I have a 16 inch jointer and planer. WOW! is that nice.
Bottom line - I recommend at least an 8 inch jointer.

[Mike Holbrook]

The information I have read recently suggested looking at existing and planned projects in order to decide which tool is need first.

I just bought an Ez Smart guide system. It is very easy to create a straight edge or two on dimensionless lumber with it. I wonder if some of the Ez Smart & Festool cutting system owners here have found it possible to get by without a joiner for a while or indefinitely? I think I will go for a planer first. I also plan to research combo planer/joiners since speed of production is not my major issue and I have limited space.

[Mike Vermeil]

Jerry,

You've got enough opinions already, but I'll add mine. After years of doing it on the side, I'm now a professional remodeling contractor who builds quite a bit of cabinetry - both for parts of larger projects and as stand alone jobs. I also build quite a bit of furniture, though mostly for friends and family.

I own an original Ryobi 10" lunchbox planer, but still do not have a jointer. Would I like one, sure. Will I buy one soon, most likely. But for a decade, I have gotten by without one, with little or no affect to the end product. However, I am pretty darn good now with hand planes, which definitely makes the lack of a jointer a little more doable. Choosing good stock to begin with also makes life w/o a jointer much easier.

Bottom line: There are many ways to straighten the edges of boards, some are faster than others, but all can give good results. But when it comes to flattening the faces of bords, and making them parallel to each other, well, unless you have lots of time, the jointer/planer method is really the only way to go.

[scott spencer]

You don't NEED a jointer, but they sure are handy and work extremely well in tandem with a planer. A planer doesn't flatten a board's face without the help of a sled and shimming....it just smooths it and reduces thickness. A jointer will flatten imperfections, then make an edge adjacent to the flat face.

Best bang for the buck IMO are the direct import machines from Grizzly, Yorkcraft, Sunhill, and Bridgewood. The Ridgid is ok too. A machine that's a step up IMHO is the GI with it's 55" beds, but costs ~ $529.

[Ken Salisbury]

I will taking the desenting opinion position:


A jointer is a must -- absolutely would not be without one !!