Piercing

[Robert McGowen]

I have been doing some research on piercing after seeing some of the great work being posted lately. There appear to be 4 ways to go and I am looking for some guidance and/or feedback on which tool would be the wisest use of funds.

1. Dremel type - Appear to be what people use when they just want to see if they think that they want to do piercing until they can get something else. For sure the cheapest.

2. Foredom - Variable speed, it turns about 18,000 rpm and I was told by a highly recommended dealer that it was a little slow to be using for piercing. It has a lot of accessories and can be used for carving, sanding, and a multitude of other things. About $250 in a kit.

3. Micromotor - From the same people that make the above Foredom, it turns about 35,000 rpm. It is supposed to be good for piercing and engraving. It is electric and could be used indoors if you vacuumed up or the spouse was not home. ;) Costs a little more than the Foredom.

4. NSK Presto - top of the line turning at over 300,000 rpm's. Uses an air compressor, which is no problem for me other than I would always be in an unheated or non-airconditioned shop. Can't find it in kit form for less than $450.00 and not sure what else I could do with it besides piercing.

Leaning towards #2, but don't want to buy it and then end up with something else if it really isn't fast enough. Any opinions or options that I might have missed would really be appreciated. Thanks!

[Justin Stephen]

What I have seen written in a couple of places was that you want a minimum of 250,000rpm for piercing. I also asked one of the more prominent turners who does piercing at the AAW symposium about the Foredom (I think it was Fennell) and was told it was too slow. I am pretty sure you can do piercing with a slower tool, but your control and cut quality will suffer.

Another option is the dental style tools that Brian McEvoy (onegoodturn.ca) sells but it ultimately looks to be as expensive as the NSK Presto when you get everything.

On the other hand, it seems to me that it would be useful to have one of the cheaper tools anyway (for example, a Dremel with the flexible attachment) for doing a lot of other non-piercing work (texturing, etc.).

[Mark Hazelden]

Robert.

I got my piercing drill by asking my dentist if he had any old dental air drills laying around. He gave me one for free. It is an angled head drill but I find it comfortable to use. It turns at 450,000 RPM. I buy bits on eBay for a buck a piece.

Mark

[Cecil Walborn]

Anything slower then an air tools will cause you to have catches and maybe ruin a piece. I got my turbo carver from wood carver supply. The cost is about $250. It runs at about 400,000 rpms. You need some carbide bits also. They have some of them also. The speed that they turn does cause some burning of the wood. Also the turbo carver is an oil less carver. Some of the other air carver need some oil to keeps them running good. I have had good results with mine. I use a dremel on any piece that is big and need to remove a lot of wood.

Hope you can find what you want and I am sure you will enjoy the pierce carving.

Cecil

[Wally Dickerman]

After doing a little experimenting I decided to go for the NSK tool. I got mine from Bihn Pho along with his DVD on piercing. Plus, Bihn is great about answering email questions. I also get my burrs from Bihn.

You need the tool plus a controller to maintain the correct air pressure. It does run around $400. I paid for that with the first pierced piece I sold.

You do need the high speed for good tool control. You probably already know that the walls of the vessel must be about 1/16th inch thick.

[Richard Kennedy UK]

Hi may I stick my spanner in the works! (nicely and with all due respect!) but I don't think you need an air powered tool to pierce work you can manage with a dremel type multi tool but its not as easy or enjoyable due mainly to the weight and cumbersome nature of the flexi shaft. Micro motor type tools avoid this by having the motor in the handpiece I appreciate they don't run super fast but I feel that sometimes all that speed increases the amount of charring that occurs I use an electric handpiece that runs up to about 25,000 rpm I appreciate that the dental tools utilise much finer burrs however this can be limiting with regard to removing more substantial waste. I am looking at upgrading my piercing set up and think that the foredom micromotor looks a good idea. I haven't used an air powered handpiece in anger except at a trade show for about 2 minutes so I cant say I have experience of them but I did make this with the electric handpiece

200786

Try before you buy thats all I would suggest!

[Russell Eaton]

I have the micro motor. It works pretty well. I need to get some different bits to achieve the end results that I want.it is comfortable to use and will pull a fairly large tool. One other thing it has a reverse witch can come in handy. Hope this helps.

[Tim Thiebaut]

Hi may I stick my spanner in the works! (nicely and with all due respect!) but I don't think you need an air powered tool to pierce work you can manage with a dremel type multi tool but its not as easy or enjoyable due mainly to the weight and cumbersome nature of the flexi shaft. Micro motor type tools avoid this by having the motor in the handpiece I appreciate they don't run super fast but I feel that sometimes all that speed increases the amount of charring that occurs I use an electric handpiece that runs up to about 25,000 rpm I appreciate that the dental tools utilise much finer burrs however this can be limiting with regard to removing more substantial waste. I am looking at upgrading my piercing set up and think that the foredom micromotor looks a good idea. I haven't used an air powered handpiece in anger except at a trade show for about 2 minutes so I cant say I have experience of them but I did make this with the electric handpiece

200786

Try before you buy thats all I would suggest!

Wow this piece is incredible...I am in the process of looking at Wood Burners and noticed that the Larger Burnmaster unit is a Burner & Pierceing tool all in one, I seriously considered it but its just to much money for me right now.

[Scott Hackler]

my $.02....

I have pierced a few things with my dremel and it will work OK. I don't have a flex shaft for mine but I can definitely see the advantage to having that attachment. Holding the large dremel isn't very comfortable after a bit.

I recently bought the NSK Presto and there is a GIANT difference between it and the dremel. The dremel has a LOT of vibration in the bit (comparably) and because of the relatively low speed, the dremel can (and WILL) occationally run with a hard spot of grain or knots. You can remove a lot more material for bulk removal with the dremel and the larger bits available for it. The NSK, doesn't "run" at all BUT it is meant for delicate carving and delicate piercing. Think 3/32" to 1/8" walls for a good experience with the NSK.

I like to turn that kind of stuff pretty thin and pierce for that "lace look" so I haven't used my dremel hardly at all since the NSK Presto showed up, but its A LOT more expensive.

I am really getting into altering my turnings through carving, hand shaping and pyro and have been looking at a Foredom tool for easier "bulk" wood removal, but they don't "give away" the Foredom stuff either!

[Justin Stephen]

Scott, what has been your experience with visible charring with the Presto versus the Dremel?

[Jeff Nicol]

I have a bunch of different things that I use, the first is the "Mastercarver" ultra with 3 hand pieces with one being a recipricating carving handpeice. It will go from 0-30,000 rpms witch is a very good range of speeds to do any type of piercing or wood removal. The second is your basic Dremel style tool with flex shaft and I use it for a lot of small cutting and sharpening jobs along with using the small sanding drums for carving and wood removal. The third is a small die grinder in "Pen" form that is run on air and can be bought from many different places, such as HF, Enco, MSC and others. Then I have a couple of dentist drills that I bought brand new on E-bay for a small amount of cash, and you can get all the burs you could dream of there and from other suppliers on the web.

Each one is capable of doing a fine job, but it is all based on the wood type, thickness, and the type of bur you are using. The carbide burs that have fluted cutters will cut fast and tend to grab, so they need to be used more accross the grain but not against the grain to be able to control them better. The double cut burs or the ones that look lik a rotary file cut fast and smooth and I find are easier to conrol at lower speeds. Then the carbide "Kutzall" type burs come in different grits and work very well for fast wood removal and as you go to finer cutters a very nice clean cut can be had. There are also the "Ruby" burs that are like little grinding wheels of different grits and have their place in the piercing and carving world. The last that I have in my arsenal are the diamond burs which come in a plethura of shapes, grits and shank sizes and will do most any of the operations needed.

Here is a link to the Master carver I have: http://www.woodcarverssupply.com/NEW-1_2-HP-HANGING-BASIC-SET/productinfo/797422/

Hope this gives you some insight on my experiences so far,

Jeff

[Wally Dickerman]

Scott, what has been your experience with visible charring with the Presto versus the Dremel?

I can answer your question. I've been using the NSK Presto for several years. At 320,000 rpm it does create smoke and it chars the edges of the cuts. You can go back over it very lightly with the tool and remove most of the charring. However, I've not found the charring to be objectionable. Fact is, people often ask how I got the black surface. I calmly explain that I use a tiny paintbrush and that it takes a long time;)

I use a cloth and alchohol to clean up just as I do with pyrography.

[Scott Hackler]

Yep! Thats what I would have told you. I dont usually go back over then holes 1) beacuse I like the charing on the inside edges and 2) I pierce very thin wood (3/32" or so and the distance between the holes are generally very close together in my style) and so I am affraid of destroying the piece! :)

[Justin Stephen]

I had planned to turn more to about 1/8", especially for pieces that would feature more of a mixture of texturing/engraving and piercing. Will the Presto handle that?

[Scott Hackler]

Yeah it will, you just have to go a little slower. Remember that it is an air turbine and the tool wont have as much torc as an electric driven motor. I have used it on 1/8" stuff but after experienceing the "JOY" of using it on thinner wood (think of the same effort as drawing on the wood) I will often turn it really thin to do my most delicate stuff. Of course the bit that I use it smaller than 1/16" carbide taper, so its made for the thin stuff. There are some larger bits that I own but haven't used them yet. Keep in mind that the Presto's shank size is 1/16" so it IS made for smaller, more detailed work....not bulk removal.

[Tim Rinehart]

Robert,
For comparison, another tool that runs at 400,000 rpm is the Powercrafter. I've used it for piercing and scribing info on bottom of turnings. It's a good unit, no complaints. You do have to be religious about a couple drops of oil before each use and after about 15 minutes of operation and follow recommended pressure settings to keep from damaging unit. Very high quality tool that you can use to scribe on anything with little vibration. Similar to the NSK and dental drill tools.

[Wally Dickerman]

I had planned to turn more to about 1/8", especially for pieces that would feature more of a mixture of texturing/engraving and piercing. Will the Presto handle that?

Justin, once you get into piercing you'll find that 1/16th inch works much better than anything thicker. I suggest that you start out by piercing just the upper portion of a bowl so that you don't have to cut it thin farther down.

The burrs I use are actually the burrs used by a dentist. I've been thinking of hanging out my shingle. Here in Arizona I'd do the filling using turquoise.

[Chip Sutherland]

I am a Foredom and Dremel owner. I use them both. The Foredom is better all around because of the flex shaft and foot control. But for piercing I would only consider something run >300,000 rpm. After taking a class with Binh Pho, I have pierced with the NSK and with the Foredom. NSK wins hands down but you will get charring...which I happen to like. Eliminating the charring is about triple the work after piercing...not good for my adult ADD.

I have not purchased a NSK or a refurb dental unit but it is on my agenda for the latter. When I have a spare $3-400, I'll get the NSK.

To me, it is a case of using the right tool. Short of piercing, my Foredom will drill, sand, carve, grind, etc. But I will use it to do limited piercing if my network of woodturning club friends won't let me borrow their high-speed units. It's about the piece not the tool at the end of the day.

I looked at the Burnmaster Carver/Burner unit, too, but decided to get independent units. Spent a lot more but that's what seem right for me.

[Robert McGowen]

I have gained quite a bit of information from this thread and wish to thank everyone for their input.

One followup question. What type of bits are usually used. Carbide straight sided bits, balls, tapers????? Anyone have any specific styles or recommendations?

[Scott Hackler]

Robert, I have several different bits and the tapered cross cut seems to work the best for me. I use the medium one right now. It will pierce in easily and the sides of the pierced holes are evenly cut (albeit very slightly tapered in). I do find that I have to use a small steel brush to clean up the bit (the grooves, more importantly) every once in a bit. The grooves get a bit of chared wood build up and this helps keep the cutter clean. When I re-order I will be getting several of these.

[Robert McGowen]

Just so you know that I did not ignore this thread, I ordered the NSK Presto today. Craft Supplies is having a one day sale today with 15% off of most everything, so that pushed me over the edge. Got the carver, the regulator, and 8 burrs for less than $400. Thanks for the help!

[Scott Hackler]

Yeah!! Welcome to the piercing side of turning!! Your gonna love the NSK Presto. It's really lightweight and easy to handle. Just remember a couple things: 1) it is oiless, dont ever oil this tool through the air, 2) never exceed 35psi or bad expensive things happen (don't ask.... :( ) and 3) the thinner the work to be pierced, the more pleasant the experience, IMO. 1/16" or thinner work the best, 1/8" is pushing it. And 4) use a small steel brush to clean out the carbon build up in the recesses in the carbide cutters every once in a while. Makes a difference.