Is there a food safe non-yellowing finish?

[Al Rogers]

Hi

I'm turning some maple bowls and want to use a "food safe" finish on them. I have used Tung oil but the bowls turn a yellow/ tan colour. Is there a clear finish I could use instead?
Thanks

AL

[Greg Just]

mineral oil would be one suggestion.

[John Keeton]

Maple is going to yellow a little just from the passage of time. The mineral oil will work, but will need to be replenished often, and it doesn't polymerize (harden), so it isn't really a "finish". You could thin some lacquer with about 10% acetone, and apply it, then buff with 0000. That will give some protection, but be a dull finish. But, even it will not stand up to kitchen use for long.

[Joe Landon]

My understanding is that all finishes are food safe once cured.

[John Keeton]

My understanding is that all finishes are food safe once cured.That part is true, but to get a non-yellowing "finish" is difficult on a utility bowl. Most "finishes" will not hold up to constant moisture/drying cycles, and mineral oil is about it, as far as I know. Even the water based acrylic finishes (non-yellowing) won't do well over time with kitchen use.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Haven't really found a finish that won't yellow maple somewhat except for lacquer. I use Mahoney's walnut oil or antique oil on those I use for food items. I will use lacquer if they are designed to hold fruit or candy.

[Curt Fuller]

Al, I've used the Minwax Polycrylic on a few things that I wanted a nice clear finish. It stays clear and doesn't yellow. But I can't say how it would hold up to use as a salad bowl or repeated washing. I think the mineral oil idea would be best for being able to restore the finish when it needs it.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Al,
A wooden bowl in a kitchen setting moves too much for hard finish. Oils move with the wood since they are in it not on it. Unfortunately, most oils yellow or at least darken wood. If you don't protect the bowl, yellowing will be a moot point. Let it yellow a bit and protect it with a nice high quality renewable finish. Then tell the owner to wipe it with water and not soak it, renew the finish often and it will just keep getting better with age.
faust

[Al Rogers]

Thanks all

I'll give the mineral oil a go.
AL

[Mike Hollingsworth]

this stuff is made specifically for maple tops and is VERY easy to use:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Good-Stuff-Wood-Finish-For-Maple-Tops-1-pt-/H2371
http://www.hghhardware.com/images/01497532.jpg

[Joe Herrmann]

There is a walnut oil sold under the name of "Preserve" that is clear as water and shouldn't cause any discoloration. I got it at Eagle America but HUT Products had it at one time. I use it for all my food related items.

[Michelle Rich]

tung oil is not food safe..you do not want to eat it
We've had this discussion before & I think "eatin" bowls should have no "finish at all" For 30-40 yrs I have used olive oil & let my salad dressing of olive oil & vinegar get soaked into the bowl . Olive oil & vinegar are both antibacterial...after eating your salad your bowl less germy than when you started!!! Search for the previous discussion on this. Mineral oil isconsidered food safe, but it is nothing more than parrafin wax in a melted state. Parrafin wax is a petroleum product. Do research before you put anything in your mouth

[John Keeton]

Walnut oil could cause serious allergic reaction for those that have nut allergies. I know it is used a lot, but one never knows who will come in contact with the bowl. Michelle may have the best idea - olive oil!

[Ron Jones near Indy]

Mineral oil is safe and easy to "renew". Just wipe it on, and wipe is off.

[Mike Meredith]

A warning up front, I have a PhD in Biochemistry, am boarded in Clinical Nutrition and make walnut oil based woodturning finishes. About 90% of "nut allergies" are against peanuts which are legumes, not a nut at all. Tree nut allergies do occur with cashew being most common followed by almond and walnut. Allergy to olive oil occurs at about the same rate as any tree nut allergy, very rarely. Moreover, since olive oil is not a polymerizing oil (won't harden in the wood like walnut or tung oil) olive oil can become rancid (if you have turned olive wood you know what i mean) and will darken with time.

More to the point about use in finishes. Potential allergy has to do with the nature of the oil. A pressed oil will have both protein and lipid (oil) components. We are almost exclusively allergic to proteins. An oil that has been heated to more than 90 degrees C will have a vanishingly small amount of protein. Neither will it have any flavor so the walnut oil you buy for salad dressing is very different in composition than the oil I use. After processing, I can find no trace of protein in the walnut oil I use, even by the most sensitive method available in my lab. The methyl ethy ketone and Stoddard solvent used in most finishes is detectable even by nose for several years after use. The Mahoney approach, no finish and let time add the patina, is the only truly safe finish but it isn;t much good at protecting the wood. It is more probable that someone will have an issue with the mushrooms in your salad than the walnut oil finish on your bowl.

[Michelle Rich]

I do not believe olive oil will turn rancid..it has been found in amphoras and caves after 100's of years & is still good ...

[Lee Koepke]

I remember Michelle posting a picture of a couple of Cherry bowls she made, and they still look fabulous. I have been (mostly) just buffing out my bowls and thats about it. I may put a little mineral oil from time to time to make the grain look good for pictures, but MY general opinion is that a poly or other 'cured' film finish is or could be prone to flaking or damage over time (knife/fork stabs) and water, the real enemy, will get under that cured film finish and cause a ton of problems.

Display pieces, different story. But .... just as the discussions regarding DNA, there are a myriad of opinions.

[Dennis Simmons]

Food grade mineral oil, and bees wax, you can Google for cooking instructions. Keeps your hands in good condition. The items can be maintained, with food grade mineral oil, found in the laxative departments, in drug stores, and food stores. I use 1.6 oz. bees wax to one cup oil, this will do a lot of items. If you would like an instruction, sheet PM me.

[Al Rogers]

Thanks for the info mike, I will admit I worry more about what kind of mushrooms are in the salad my wife gives me, than the type of finish on the bowl? lol

AL

[Chris Burgess]

100% Pure tung oil is safe. Any type of Modified Tung Oil is not....most modified have little to no Tung actually in them. Here is some info I found on Food safe finishes.

Pure tung oil - Extracted from the nut of the china wood tree. Used as a base in many blended finishes. Available from catalogs and hardware stores. Difficult to apply, requires many coats, good water-resistance.
Raw linseed oil - Pressed from flax seeds. Not to be confused with boiled linseed, which contains metallic driers. Listed as a food additive by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Very long curing time, good looks, low water-resistance, frequent reapplication.
Mineral oil - Although derived from petroleum, it is colorless, odorless, tasteless and entirely inert. Sold as a laxative in drug stores and as a wood finish in hardware and kitchen-supply stores. Simple to apply, low waterresistance, frequent reapplication.
Walnut oil - Pressed from the nuts of the walnut tree. Sold as a salad oil in health food stores and in large grocery stores. Walnut oil dries and won't go rancid. Easy to apply, frequent reapplication.
Beeswax - The work of the honey bee. Can be mixed with an oil to create a better-smelling, slightly more waterrepellent finish. Sold in woodworking and turning catalogs.
Carnauba wax - Derived from the Brazilian palm tree. Harder than beeswax and more water-resistant. Can be used straight on woodenware as a light protective coating or a topcoat polish. Sold in woodworking and turning catalogs.
Shellac - A secretion from the lac bug. Harvested in India. Super blond shellac in flake form is the most waterresistant variety. A film-forming finish. Sold in woodworking catalogs and hardware and art supply stores.

[Chris Burgess]

Food grade mineral oil, and bees wax, you can Google for cooking instructions. Keeps your hands in good condition. The items can be maintained, with food grade mineral oil, found in the laxative departments, in drug stores, and food stores. I use 1.6 oz. bees wax to one cup oil, this will do a lot of items. If you would like an instruction, sheet PM me.

I have seem this out there. Sounds like a great solution. Also I have found that Super Blond Shelac is food safe. Not sure if it will yellow over time.

[Mike Meredith]

I do not believe olive oil will turn rancid..it has been found in amphoras and caves after 100's of years & is still good ...
Michelle, that's true and as long as the wax seal on the top of the amphora remains intact, and air is excluded, the unsaturated fatty acids in the olive oil will not be oxidized and become rancid. Wine was also shipped in the amphora for the same reason (except Retsina which came in in leather bags treated with pine pitch, oxidation might have been a good thing there). Olive oil now comes in bottles shaped to minimize the surface area exposed to air once opened, note the shape of the amphora, and usually darkened glass to exclude UV light, also a source of oxidation. Addition of small amounts of alpha-tocopherol (Vitamin E) to vegatable oils to prevent oxidation and extend shelf life is now pretty common.

[Chris Tsutsui]

I'll make another suggestion for "the good stuff".

It's a gel that wipes on and wipes off and you can't go wrong with the application. (I don't like to deal with messy sprays or special finish that requires an artists touch for application)

It's used for butcher blocks and it has very minimal yellowing. All the hard maple butcher blocks I've made for people havn't turned yellow over the years, they just darken.

[Russell Neyman]

I'm with John on this one. The truth is mineral oil or boiled linseed oil is about your only option, and you'll need to re-apply that frequently. Just the physical abuse that a food container goes through will remove just about anything you put on it.

I have several of my bowls in an art gallery in Oregon, and have had an ongoing debate with the manager there. Some of them are urns, but others have lots of natural edges and exposed grain features. She asked me, "Are your bowls food safe?"

Well, these are designed to be urns and artwork, so my response was, "Why would you put a salad or guacamole dip into a $500 piece of art? Besides, these things should not be immersed in water." Well, she put these big notes on all of my work, "THIS BOWL IS NOT FOOD SAFE" which leads everyone to conclude that they're made from toxic woods. Can't win.

[Don Stephan]

Households would seem more likely to have mineral oil than any of the other suggestions, it's more widely available to general public (pharmacies), and there are no special steps or procedures for re-application. I'm not suggesting mineral oil best highlights the character of the wood, but these factors may be worth considering.

[Russell Neyman]

"Potential allergy has to do with the nature of the oil. A pressed oil will have both protein and lipid (oil) components. We are almost exclusively allergic to proteins. An oil that has been heated to more than 90 degrees C will have a vanishingly small amount of protein. Neither will it have any flavor so the walnut oil you buy for salad dressing is very different in composition than the oil I use. After processing, I can find no trace of protein in the walnut oil I use, even by the most sensitive method available in my lab. The methyl ethy ketone and Stoddard solvent used in most finishes is detectable even by nose for several years after use. The Mahoney approach, no finish and let time add the patina, is the only truly safe finish but it isn;t much good at protecting the wood. It is more probable that someone will have an issue with the mushrooms in your salad than the walnut oil finish on your bowl."

What a great, qualified comment! On a practical level, is it possible for someone eating a serving of salad to ingest enough of any finish so that it would harmful? I'm of the opinion that, short of a finish that's literally peeling off in chunks, this is mostly a nonsense concern stirred up by people who want to sell their own brand of finish.

[Harry Robinette]

I use The Club House Wax it's made of mineral oil and bee's wax very cheap at Woodcraft. I just looked up The Good Stuff $14.95 for ( get this ) 1/4 PINT sorry don't need gold in my finish.
As always just my $.02

[paul wiser]

i have used tried and true danish oil as a finish. yes it does slightly yellow maple, but it is a good finish. have also used howard's butcher block conditioner, which is a mixture of mineral oil, carnauba wax and bees wax. gives a good finish