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View Full Version : Cutting Vinyl "stickers" for cars. Need info



David Fairfield
07-03-2011, 6:59 PM
I've been asked about cutting vinyl markings for cars. This is a subject about which I know nothing, but looks like a fun job to design and cut. Can this be done on a laser, if so, can anyone enlighten me about the basics?

Just for example (no affiliation) here is the stuff in question.

ebay item 8263ebfa32

Thanks as always
Dave

Scott Shepherd
07-03-2011, 7:49 PM
The laser "can" do it, but it's nothing like having the right machine for the job, a vinyl plotter. First point, it's vinyl, so cutting it brings up all the old arguments about it. Some people say it's so thin it doesn't matter and they have been doing it for years, while others say they'd never put vinyl in their machine to cut and risk it.

Once you cut the shape out, you "weed" out the excess by manually pulling the bits you don't want out. Then you apply transfer tape over it and it's ready to apply.

A vinyl plotter will make you some money. Our plotters have paid for themselves many times over. A vinyl plotter is a very nice thing to have in conjunction with a laser. You can also find them used on craigslist fairly often.

Richard Rumancik
07-03-2011, 9:04 PM
Dave

If you just want to do small graphics (say 12" x 12" or smaller), one color, then I'd go ahead and give the laser a try. It would allow you to test the market with the tool you have. Buy a few colors of vinyl and attach a piece to a "cutting board". You can use masking tape to hold the vinyl down (or vacuum if you want to get fancier.) The vinyl may tend to bulge a bit in the center so you need to figure out how to make it flat. Possibly a few pieces of double-sided tape would help.

The objective is to kiss-cut the vinyl, so you need to play with power settings. An occasional cut-through on the liner won't be a disaster but you want to avoid cutting the paper as much as possible.

Ther may be some fogging of the vinyl from smoke but it cleans off easily. Weed the shape as usual (an X-acto knife and dental tools are good for small detailed graphics). Then apply suitable transfer tape and supply to the customer ready-to-apply. As far as the financial - you need to work out if you can compete with the people with the plotter/cutters.

Theoretically, you could do multiple colors but the laser is probably not the right tool to use as size and complexity goes up.

I know lots of people will say the laser is the wrong machine for vinyl but if you want to test a market with minimal investment then you can do it. You can use CorelDraw and don't need to buy sign software to get started.

Rodne Gold
07-03-2011, 11:17 PM
You really struggle with a laser and vinyl , especially small lettering as the laser does not give a clean cut like a vinyl plotters blade , you often get remelt and you often get the edge of the cut sticking to the paper liner if you partially cut thru the liner past the silicon/waxy layer into the paper. I do it occasionally , especially for resists , where we apply the vinyl and then cut it and weed it on the article itself. For metal etching we use a polyester based vinyl on the metal and cut big lettering and actually raster engrave fine detail away. You can buy laser friendly polyester based "vinyl" from 3m.

Gary Hair
07-04-2011, 12:12 AM
Dave,
I believe cutting vinyl is very bad for your laser, and your lungs, but don't take my word for it - or anyone else here for that matter. How about you call Epilog and ask them what they think about lasering vinyl. If they will warrant your machine after knowing you cut vinyl then I say go for it!

Gary

Dan Hintz
07-04-2011, 7:40 AM
Yeah, if you do try this on the laser, make sure your "vinyl" is actually polyester.

Mike Null
07-04-2011, 7:55 AM
I'm with those who say use the laser for small amounts of vinyl. I would never cut or engrave it every day but for a test or a small job I doubt there'll be any harm done to you or the machine. I've done it numerous times. But remember, the mfr says no.

Joe Pelonio
07-04-2011, 9:44 AM
The markup on those small car graphics are hardly worth the time, never mind the risk. If you buy a plotter you can do larger graphics jobs with installation on large trucks and vans, that's where the real profit from vinyl is. The plotter can pay for itself with 2-3 jobs, where your cost for materials is a couple of hundred and you charge $2,000 installed.

Richard Rumancik
07-04-2011, 8:58 PM
I kind of expected that there would be two schools of thought on this. But often a person wants to get a taste of something without a huge investment. I did not suggest that lasering decals would be a gravy train by any means, but if you get an occasional customer and want to experiment, I say why not. At some point it may make sense to purchase equipment. Or not.

The other option is to buy a cutter plotter and sign software right off the hop and take some training in doing auto wraps, but that is a big financial and time investment. Sometimes it makes sense to do a bit of exploring and see if expertise in another area would help your business - without spending a lot of money. I assumed David wanted to sell ready-to-install vinyl, and not do the installation, and that he wanted to add a product to his laser business and not start what I would consider a new business. Installing vinyl is a whole different business in my opinion.

I'm sure people that can apply vehicle wraps well can make good money but I'll also guess that they did not learn to do it from a YouTube video.

Rodne is correct; if you laser vinyl it won't separate as well from the liner as blade-cut vinyl. So it is a bit more trouble to peel off the liner when doing the application.

And yes, of course, the laser companies won't tell you it is okay to cut vinyl. ULS, for example, used to give laser settings for sign vinyl in their manual. In later manuals, they gave the settings, and added a note to say that you really shouldn't do this . . . now they don't give the settings. There is no incentive for them to say that you can cut sign vinyl as they don't want to pay warranty repairs for people who are cutting thick PVC.

If you decide to cut vinyl it would make sense to wipe down the rails, rollers and any surfaces in the exhaust path after the job is finished.

Although polyester is a safer material to cut the selection is very limited.

David Fairfield
07-05-2011, 8:48 AM
Thanks for all the replies. Yeah its a small job, was thinking along the same lines as Richard. Don't want to invest in new machinery without knowing what I'm doing, but using the laser for a one-off is at least an opportunity to see what this car sticker stuff is about.

I'm interested in the 3M polyester material. Anyone have a good source for a small (like 1 8.5" x 11" sheet) quantity?

Rodne, cool about using the polyester material as an etching mask. Been meaning to experiment again with chemical milling, previous experiments using paint failed.

Thanks again for the thoughtful replies!
Dave

Martin Boekers
07-05-2011, 8:56 AM
I do it for very small jobs, more of a "customer service" as opposed to a money maker.
The cuts are acceptable but not as clean as a knife cut. The laser pulses so you get
more of a perferation than a "cut".

I do it on steel nametags, and for an occasional office sign. If you think you want
to explore that side you can get a nice small cutter for ubder a $1000. I'm saving
for a printer/cutter. ;-)

Dan Hintz
07-05-2011, 10:38 AM
If you think you want to explore that side you can get a nice small cutter for ubder a $1000.
Check FleaBay for vinyl cutters... I picked up a LaserPoint 25" USCutter for a couple hundred $s a couple of years ago...

Richard Rumancik
07-05-2011, 10:46 AM
I do it for very small jobs, more of a "customer service" as opposed to a money maker.
The cuts are acceptable but not as clean as a knife cut. The laser pulses so you get
more of a perferation than a "cut". . . .

Yes, that's kind of my thoughts . . . somebody comes to you with a "problem" that perhaps could be better handled by other equipment, but you work through it and don't necessarily make a whole lot on the job - but it exposes you to another possible revenue stream. And keeps the customer coming back. On the other hand, you may decide you don't like it and don't have a $1000 plotter and $1000 software sitting idle.

Not sure why you are getting a perforation though. My cuts in vinyl are clean. Maybe you need to the change pulse rate for vinyl.

Mike Null
07-05-2011, 11:06 AM
My cuts are also clean and I use mine as a sandblast mask.

Glen Monaghan
07-05-2011, 12:12 PM
Is there a web link for the material you are using as a sandblast mask? Thanks!

-Glen

Mike Null
07-05-2011, 1:50 PM
Glen

I am not advocating that this be done with a laser engraver but I use standard sign vinyl which is available from all sign wholesalers. They also sell sandblast mask, a thicker material, that you can cut with a vinyl cutter.

Bruce Clumpner
07-05-2011, 5:33 PM
For a one-off small job, I'd just take your art to a local sign shop that runs a inkjet with cutting capabilities. Most of the franchise stores won't turn you away, and should work with you on trade-pricing. Specially if they only have to output the art and you put it together well. That way you can evaluate if the job is a money maker or not, and if it's worth it to invest in a new or used machine.

Dave Wagner
07-05-2011, 7:08 PM
Definately an art in itself, I don't have a laser, but a Roland GX24 vinyl cutter. You have to buy the cutter, usually comes with some generic software, the actual vinyl, the masking (top layer) stuff, tools to 'weed' out the stuff you don't want. Mine does a very good job for small to med. size lettering & graphic jobs, etc....If you want to do wraps (a whole another topic), you need a printer/plotter/cutter depending on the size and resolution (and the outdoor inks can get very expensive and the special vinyl for printing.....and they take forever to print in good quality resolution.) Good luck.

Joe Pelonio
07-05-2011, 8:27 PM
For a one-off small job, I'd just take your art to a local sign shop that runs a inkjet with cutting capabilities. Most of the franchise stores won't turn you away, and should work with you on trade-pricing. Specially if they only have to output the art and you put it together well. That way you can evaluate if the job is a money maker or not, and if it's worth it to invest in a new or used machine.
If yo9u go that route I'd suggest a non-franchise shop. It's been my experience that the franchisees will charge the same as retail and even a minimum, while the independents are more likely to be cooperative and leave you room for a profit.

Rodne Gold
07-05-2011, 11:14 PM
Wraps are very difficult, when I got my roland print/cut machine we started doing wraps , in those days they were not that common and you got great money for a wrap . it took a week to do , the vehicle has to be measured , drawn , panels defined , printed , overlaminated and then cut and then fitted - the fitting/correction/reprinting alone can take 3 days. We gave it up after 4 or 5 wraps , we got good results but it was way too time consuming and albeit the money was good , I worked out it was actually a loss making thing when labour , time and effort was "costed" in.
My print and cut machine, along with the lasers , cnc machines and doming plant make for a powerful combo, I would suggest a small print and cut machine as a "next addition" if one has a laser... you can do a lot with the 2 machines. The new print and cuts print metallics or white so you can do even more with em. Even better would be the addition of a small uv printing flatbed..but they pretty pricey.

Peter Watz
02-14-2012, 5:34 AM
Oracal has a transparent, actually its more like frosted, transfer "tape" made out of Polyolefin.
Looks like vinyl, acts like vinyl, at 10% of vinyl prices...

I use it to make those ever popular frosted lettering on glass/acrylic.

Peter