Experimenting with drying techniques

[Roger Chandler]

After our meeting this morning we had several of our turners agree to try some different methods of drying the white oak from the Jackson Prayer tree.

1 - rough turn, DNA soak, bag and weigh till stable -[I will do this technique, maybe also coating with anchorseal after the DNA soak, most likely trying both ways]
2 - rough turn, boiling and let dry for a couple months - [this technique will be done by fellow "creeker," Dale Winburn]
3 - rough turn, anchor seal, bag and weigh till stable
4 - rough turn, bag with floor dry [kitty litter] weigh till stable

With these experiments, we hope to find the best way to dry this wood and prevent cracking.

It will be interesting to see which one works best or if they are all similar in results. Anyone care to take a guess at which one will be best?

[James Combs]

You may want to post a definition for "best way". What weighs most when considering "best", quality versus overall drying time. If one off them gives you quick drying and only minor cracking and warping is it the best or can there not be any cracks but maybe some warping or maybe best is having neither. Just thinking out loud.

[charlie knighton]

works best for me

[John Keeton]

Roger, I am certainly interested in the outcome of this, and I appreciate the efforts in that regard. I would suspect there needs to be some uniformity in the form in order for any valid conclusions to be drawn - including grain orientation, distance from pith, etc. Otherwise, I fear other factors could come into play.

No guess for me - I just don't have enough experience with any of the methods. The few times I have used the DNA, it worked well, but I have seen a lot of "press" on the other methods giving all of them validity to varying degrees.

Seems success should be based on the integrity of the dried object - both as to cracks and warpage. And, I suppose the final moisture content is relevant to a degree, as well.

[Alan Zenreich]

To make the test really interesting, you might also try using Turner's Choice (from CedarCide) on one piece, and compare the results to the other techniques. I have a sycamore bowl that I roughed out last night soaking in some, and expect to do final turning in a few days.

[Harvey Ghesser]

Roger, I vote that method #1 will prevail.

1 - rough turn, DNA soak, bag and weigh. However, my own method deletes the daily weights and when I see a nice oval formed on the tenon....it's time to finish the bowl. My rough outs never crack. I store my bagged bowls under the TS outfeed table (it's pretty big) and on the floor. I can return a rough out in about 3 months.

[Roger Chandler]

JD,

The "drying to stable" time is important, but avoiding cracking is most important. As John said, the integrity of the final product is of utmost importance to me...........the last thing I want to happen is for someone to purchase something from a gallery or gift shop at the museum, and then it crack on them.

Very interesting thing.........that first box I made for the owner is still doing fine and the fit of the lid is superb she reported to me yesterday at our club meeting...........I think the small limb I turned it from came from a part of the tree that had been dead for a few years.........

The second box I think came from a limb that was still living when the tree fell over. That explains one cracking and the other not cracking.

I have a feeling that the DNA soak and then anchorseal and weigh every couple days will prove to be a good process. I think Dale Winburns boiling process will also yield some good results. I think I will try to turn about 3 similar things and use one with DNA, one with Anchor seal and DNA, and one with just Anchorseal and the bag..........see which one does best.

[Dale Winburn]

I'm going to use my normal drying method for a couple of bowls and also try the boiling method on a couple of bowls.

My normal drying method is to rough turn the bowl, anchorseal both inside and outside then place in my attic to dry. I've used this method for many bowls with great success.

I've tried the boiling method and have the equipment but don't use it often. Because the Jackson Prayer tree white oak is old and may be brittle the boiling method may work better that my normal method. I will rough turn the bowl, boil the bowl for one - two hours, anchorseal both inside and outside then place in my attic to dry.

I will keep records of weights and moisture content at the drying progresses, and post the results.

[Roger Chandler]

That is great Dale........I think between you, me and Don we will likely find the best scenario for avoiding cracking.....at least maybe for most of the wood. Some that does can be pen blanks, and the Christmas ornaments, etc.

[Jamie Donaldson]

But what about the microwave nuking process, or the Polish Kiln- brown paper bag? Those are 2 of my favorites that work with pieces turned green to final dimensions, like hollow forms.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Not to be a nay sayer, but I think there are a couple other factors. Top of my list is cost. DNA is not cheap, kitty litter is. Boiling and the micro uses electricity. Shavings is free, but time costs money too. Just some other things to add to that list of what drying technique is "best".
One of the key factors is what John mentioned, distance from the pith. No matter what, it may crack.

INteresting topic and experiment. I will be watching for the results.

[Roger Chandler]

Not to be a nay sayer, but I think there are a couple other factors. Top of my list is cost. DNA is not cheap, kitty litter is. Boiling and the micro uses electricity. Shavings is free, but time costs money too. Just some other things to add to that list of what drying technique is "best".
One of the key factors is what John mentioned, distance from the pith. No matter what, it may crack.

INteresting topic and experiment. I will be watching for the results.

Kyle,

The factors you bring up are legitimate across the board.........I am more narrowly focused. My primary concern is to be able to get this wood to a point that it makes for a very good end product, as much as is possible with this white oak. Crack avoidance and reasonable time to complete a project are the two main factors for me..........I want every one who decides they want to purchase an item from this historic tree to have a genuine keepsake on their hands..........not something they regret later on, because it cracked on them.

This is our goal in trying to find a method that accomplishes both goals.

[Bill Clark De]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KJbRHO76s&NR=1

[Baxter Smith]

Great video Bill.

[Bernie Weishapl]

What a cool video.

[Steve Kubien]

the Polish Kiln- brown paper bag?. My dad's side of the family is Polish and imfind this darned funny!!! Have you ever seen a Canadian $50 bill? It used to have a a picture of the Mounties on horseback in a circle. They had their lances and flags, all held horizontally and pointing into the middle of the circle. Polish firing squad.

Back to the original topic, I anchor seal the end grain of my rough outs and throw them in my fridge kiln. Around 6 weeks later they are ready to reacclimate to the shop ( few days) and go back on the lathe. I have probably done 40-50 bowls this way, sized 10" and up to 14" and I have had only ONE crack.

[Joe Watson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KJbRHO76s&NR=1
Only skipped through it, caught the end when the guy was making that "drinking barrel" for the cows, absolutely loved it when he whipped off his hat and used it to dust off the rim and then slid it back on his head, it was so fluid; classic.