White Oak question......more prone.........

[Roger Chandler]

I have turned a number of different woods along the way, but my first experience with white oak for turning is this Jackson Prayer tree..........I showed the other day a box made for one of the ladies who has been so helpful, with intentions of presenting it to her at our Saturday meeting......

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?168434-2-from-Stonewall-Jackson-Prayer-Tree

Now that box is cracked big on the lid, and has cracks running up the sides, just creeping up mocking me as they go! :eek: Now I have to do it over with all the DNA soak, drying time, re-turning, and then finish........a process likely to take over 2 weeks.

My question......for those of you who have some experience with white oak....is it more prone to cracking than other woods, and how have you addressed this issue with success?

[Steve bellinger]

Roger i've never had a lot of success with oak. the few times i did have some success i turned them, microwaved them off and on, for a few days then returned. now these were just small pieces so they fit in my shop microwave. Don't use the wifes if you expect to live long and do well.:rolleyes: And don't ask how i know this ether.:D

[Jack Mincey]

I've turned a bit of red oak with little problem, but I thought that you were being optimistic when I saw that your had turned and finished boxes from the prayer tree so quick. Even with a dead tree like the Jackson Prayer Tree it is far from being dry enough to turn anything like a box and finish it. I don't use DNA, but do turn roughed out boxes and let them dry for 6 months to a year in a brown paper bag before I return them. The other choice you have is to cut it into 3 x 3 or 4 x 4 beams and let them dry which will take a couple of years at best. You can turn boxes out of the beam parts that doesn't crack as they dry. For bowls I would just twice turn any thing that you want to be round when done, but this takes 6 months or so in a brown paper bag to dry between rough turning and returning. I like to turn nature edge bowls to finial thickness ( 1/4" -) and let them dry in a Brown paper bag for a month to dry. HF's can be twice turned are turned to finish thickness and let warp. I had to drive though your part of the world last week to be a attend my Uncles funeral in Maryland. He was almost 94 so it wasn't a sad occasion as much as one to celebrate his life. I thought of the prayer tree as I went to and from Maryland.
Good Luck,
Jack

[David E Keller]

I've turned a bit of pin oak(which is a red oak variety I believe), and I would say that it's fairly prone to cracking and distortion. I've chosen to admit defeat with oak, so I can't help you with a solution.

[Roger Chandler]

Thanks for the information Jack. Sorry to hear of your uncles passing.........however, celebrating a life well lived is a special thing in and of itself.

I knew that oak has issues at times cracking, but when I look at the radial lines that go out from the pith, I just see opportunities for cracking just waiting to happen. I had no idea it would take as much as two years to dry............I will have to come up with some process..........maybe a combination of things like the DNA, microwave, dish detergent, boiling ? Something has to work on an accelerated basis. Looks like I am going to need a supply of brown paper bags!

I guess I need to do some experimenting ............. I am open for other suggestions from the creekers out there........help!

[Fred Belknap]

Roger I have turned quite a few WO bowls and have found that it takes a while to get dry. I didn't have much trouble with it cracking but it sure warped bad. I takes a little more patience than some other wood. I just about gave up making lidded WO bowls.:eek::D

[charlie knighton]

Roger, oak is tough, hope you stil have some in trunk form, cut up in blanks, age in cardboard barrels or cardboard boxes for 4 to 6 months, not 100 % some blanks will crack but the ones that have not cracked after that time ok to turn. those will still be moist at center of blank and will not rust your tools . enjoy

[Roger Chandler]

I just purchased a digital scale......goes up to 55 lbs........hope to do some DNA soak and weigh daily until stabilized. I will try the brown bags and probably use some Anchorseal after the DNA soak, weigh and check weight loss daily. When stable, then re-turn.

Here is the scale........pretty nice for the price, I think.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31aJyoaYPSL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[charlie knighton]

oak is probably different than anything you turn probably, leave some in a woodpile three or four days and it will have stress checks in it, worse than cherry

[Jeff Nicol]

I turn a ton of red and white oak and I will rough them out as fast as possible before any checking has occurred in the end grain, or remove it all before turning it. If it has checks in it and you leave them even with sealing it the checks will continue to move and take their toll on the piece. So I turn them out to about 3/4"-1" seal the outside with Anchor seal and or stretch wrap, then I fill them with very dry floor dry which will take moisture out of the wood. I will leave the clay floor dry in for a week or so, take it out. I ussually weigh the piece before the floor dry goes in and then weigh it each time I take it out and dry it in the sun or on the woodstove in the winter. The mass of the floor dry helps keep the form stable and drys it at the same time, so far so good for me on that process.

Oak just take some more time to get it done right, hope that helps some,

Jeff

[Roger Chandler]

I turn a ton of red and white oak and I will rough them out as fast as possible before any checking has occurred in the end grain, or remove it all before turning it. If it has checks in it and you leave them even with sealing it the checks will continue to move and take their toll on the piece. So I turn them out to about 3/4"-1" seal the outside with Anchor seal and or stretch wrap, then I fill them with very dry floor dry which will take moisture out of the wood. I will leave the clay floor dry in for a week or so, take it out. I ussually weigh the piece before the floor dry goes in and then weigh it each time I take it out and dry it in the sun or on the woodstove in the winter. The mass of the floor dry helps keep the form stable and drys it at the same time, so far so good for me on that process.



Oak just take some more time to get it done right, hope that helps some,

Jeff

Wow Jeff..........

Would kitty litter be the same as floor dry, or is there a place to get what you are speaking of? I would think you might be speaking of some type of spill absorber????

[Jeff Nicol]

Roger, Kitty litter is the same stuff, but most of it has some sort of perfume on it, I found that out right away. It does not stay in the wood, but is kind of annoying over time. You can get floor dry at most all auto parts stores and big bos hardware stores too. It is used to soak up oil spills and such.

Have fun,

Jeff

[Bernie Weishapl]

Roger I bought a scale like your of the big bay. It is pretty much the same. I had some red oak and white oak that I DNA'd. Covered with brown paper sack. They cracked worse than the ones I completely anchorsealed. I wrote the weight on them before I coated them.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger I bought a scale like your of the big bay. It is pretty much the same. I had some red oak and white oak that I DNA'd. Covered with brown paper sack. They cracked worse than the ones I completely anchorsealed. I wrote the weight on them before I coated them.

Thanks Bernie........I will try to remember that............I think I will have to experiment some with this.........I had a fellow turner at our club tell me the opposite...........that he thought anchorseal would essentially seal in the moisture, so I will try both ways to see what works best for me.

I appreciate your input..........this white oak is a new experience for me, so I certainly have a learning curve ahead of me.

[Scott T Smith]

Roger I bought a scale like your of the big bay. It is pretty much the same. I had some red oak and white oak that I DNA'd. Covered with brown paper sack. They cracked worse than the ones I completely anchorsealed. I wrote the weight on them before I coated them.

Roger, I work with oak every day, although not for turning. It is one of the slowest, and more difficult species to dry.

Jeff's advice sounds right one, based upon my experience working with oak boards, planks and logs. I've some milled logs that were 3 years old that were still over 60% MC in the core of the log.

Your objective should not be to speed up the drying process, but rather to slow it down for at least the first half of the drying cycle.

Regards,

Scott

[Dennis Ford]

I have had fair to poor luck with red oak and mostly poor luck with white oak. It dries slowly, moves a lot and is prone to cracking. If turned thin while wet, the cracking can be controlled. The only way that I have found to get round (un-warped) pieces has been to rough while fresh then boil the rough-outs. After boiling, (as soon as the surface began drying) I coated the entire piece with anchor seal. They took a long time to dry and warped a lot. Most but not all survived without cracking. I will turn it again only if the tree has sentimental value or exceptional figure.

[David Reed]

I would think that most wood you turn with the pith in the center would crack and oak being pretty mobile is even more at risk. It makes a lovely form with the rays radiating from the center but not sure how the cracking could be prevented with this layout.