Old Stanley Sweetheart Blade

[Howard L. Welch]

Hi Folks,

I recently purchased a Stanley No. 5 plane on ebay - the best I can figure is that it is circa 1924 (the dating info on Stanleys on hyperkitten, et al., appears to be based on No. 4s, and is not all transferable to No. 5s). I switched out the blade and cap iron with a Hock, and plan on using the original Sweetheart blade to build a wooden smoother - but, when I tried to sharpen the Stanley blade on a coarse stone, it seemed softer than any blade I've sharpened - it's even softer than the blade on a no-name plane I bought at Harbor Freight! The blade when I got it was able to cut a very thin, see-through shaving, but it had a chip in it that I wanted to remove. The blade is 7 and one-eighth inches long, so it hasn't been use that much - my question is, since I don't fancy having to resharpen the blade every half dozen passes, are blades this old commonly soft, and, if so, can it be fixed with proper annealing and tempering.

Any thoughts on this are appreciated.

Howard

[James Scheffler]

I would try sharpening it and see if it does hold an edge. It may be fine.

It can be re-hardened and tempered, but for me, the cost of a replacement blade (which is better steel anyway) outweighs the bother and (minor) risks of the hardening process. Plenty of people do it, I'm just not sure it's worth it for something you can pay $35 for and have in a few days without leaving the comfort of your own home.

Jim

[Bill Houghton]

Could you perhaps have a laminated blade? Stanley made them for many years, including during the Sweetheart period. This PDF explains them: http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/stan-bpl/bladeflyer.pdf.

I've discovered two ways to know whether you've got a laminated blade: 1. If the bevel is well-ground, you can often see the line where the harder steel is laminated to the body of the blade. 2. I also discovered, inadvertently, that if you soak a laminated blade in white vinegar overnight, you'll see a distinct difference between the laminated portion and the rest of the blade (the laminated portion tends to go kind dark, and come out very smooth, compared to the body of the blade).

[Howard L. Welch]

Jim- thank you for your prompt reply - my problem is that I love Ron Hock's blades, but my spouse objects to their price - if I have to replace the blade, it will be with a Hock and I'll have to find a way to sneak it in under the radar.

Bill - thanks for the link - the info in the flyer indicates that the laminated blade would exhibit just what I experienced - an apparent softness which isn't the cutting blade but the laminated backing. I'll finish sharpening it tomorrow and see how it holds up.

Again, thank you for your help.

Howard

[Sam Takeuchi]

Don't expect too much. Stanley never put too much effort into making good blades. Laminated or not, they've always been "good enough" with varying degree of quality. Some people believe SW era blades are superior to the rest, but I highly doubt they changed anything to make better blades during that time. Some blades, laminated old Stanley stock blades,are decent, meaning they are usable. Some are duds and can't keep edge worth a crap, SW or not. If you have a Hock blade, that's definitely a great upgrade.

Also, I don't recommend using those thin Stanley blades in home brew wooden plane. Like I said, it's not a quality blade to begin with, edge retention isn't going to be that good compare to commercially available blades today. Also it's thin and might have a problem with chatter. You definitely need a cap iron, but using stock Stanley one isn't suitable at all. All in all, using commercially available thick wooden plane blade would be worthwhile, because if you make that wooden plane with Stanley blade in it, eventually you'll want to replace it with a proper wooden plane blade.

[David Weaver]

Only way to tell is to use it (how long it lasts). If you like hocks, I wouldn't fool around with it too long. I don't know that any of the sweetheart blades were laminated.

The old ones that were laminated are inconsistent, as sam said. Some of them feel very hard and grainy on stones, and some of them do not. All of them usually work OK, just not great (especially on harder woods) like a nice new replacement blade does.

If you want to use the old one, check around about how to set up the chipbreaker properly (contact points on both sides of the bump at the end). It should make a significant difference in how stable the iron is.

[Howard L. Welch]

Sam, David - Thanks for the input. Using the SW for a wooden plane sounds problematic, so I'll either get a Hock or some O-1 and try to make may own.

[James Scheffler]

Sam, David - Thanks for the input. Using the SW for a wooden plane sounds problematic, so I'll either get a Hock or some O-1 and try to make may own.

It's also worth checking out the Lee Valley blades for wooden planes. The short Hock blades are said to be good, but they're short enough that you may be limited to a fairly low Krenov-type plane. If that's what you want, they're just the thing. If not, the LV ones are longer and also a bit cheaper.

Jim

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Are those LV blades tapered? I assume not, given that they don't mention it, but didn't know if anyone had experience with them.

It looks like on the Hock website, he now sells two lengths of the krenov-style blades, although the longer one is still only 4 1/2 inches.

Does anyone have experience with the blades David Finck sells on his website? A2 is nice for some things.

[David Weaver]

I got longer irons from hock, only because at one point I was looking for them for an infill plane, and he offered some single irons that he had on hand.

I like hock's wood plane irons the best if we are talking about single irons. The ones I've had were marked US and they are good irons.

I don't know what Brese plane irons are, other than the ones that I got originated from Hock, but they are also very good quality carbon steel irons that are hard and are predictable in failure (i.e., they fail due to wear, as you would hope, and not due to chipping and other unexpected failures. That leaves you with little to do when sharpening them and they stay sharp for a good long while).

I had missed the intention to use the stanley irons in a wooden plane. I guess if you had a perfectly made plane with lots of support at the edge, they would be OK, but it's likely that if you use a wedge style, you will not have that kind of support and you may not have a bed/iron/wedge fit as nice as you'd like. A thicker iron is definitely in order. Buy an old laminated double iron set that is tapered with a chipbreaker, or an old laminated single iron if you want to go that way. They'll be at least 3/16ths at the business end and will work well with a wedge. You should be able to find one for $10 (the whole set), and they are usually very good irons.

The last time I got some, I think I got a lot of three with chipbreakers in various width's on peebay, with no rust pitting for $10 plus shipping.

(it just occurred to me that you may be making a krenov style plane and not a traditional coffin smoother type plane with a wedge - my comments are for the traditional type, which nobody ever seems to want to try - but folks should, I think. the irons are available cheaply, and it is probably a better skill builder than building a krenov plane)

[James Scheffler]

The Lee Valley irons are not tapered. I have one of the A2 irons in the plane pictured in my avatar.

Jim