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View Full Version : HVLP vs Airless Sprayer - Need suggestions



Chris Haney
02-12-2005, 11:05 PM
My brother is about to start painting his new drywall in his basement and I am about to start finishing out my basement myself. We discussed splitting the cost of an airless sprayer and he told me to pick it out. I was looking at a Graco Magnum 2800 airless sprayer (at HD) for $298. However, I also saw a CH HVLP sprayer at HD for $297 (model HV2500) so I started thinking that I might get more use out of the HVLP sprayer in the long run than out of an airless sprayer. However, since my (and my brother's) immediate need is to paint a bunch of drywall, I don't want to get something (the HVLP sprayer) that won't do a good job painting drywall just so I can have an HVLP sprayer for my woodworking (he doesn't do woodworking). Right now, I have more projects that will require painting (basement drywall (latex), wainscoting (might be oil base paint), and a few pieces of furniture and shop projects I am making out of MDF). Any thoughts on getting the CH HVLP sprayer and using it in place of an airless sprayer? Or is there another HVLP sprayer close in price that would be a better choice? Or should I just get the airless sprayer and put the HVLP on my "wish list"? Any thoughts/ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.

brent lenthall
02-12-2005, 11:23 PM
I'm not familar with that turbine unit, but in general, they are not the best for latex paint. Assuming you can get a decent finish off the gun, you will have to stop quite often to fill the cup. I would go airless and get a decent compressor/ HVLP gravity gun for your woodworking projects.

brent

Jim Becker
02-13-2005, 12:11 AM
Brent hit it square...for latex, airless is the way to go. It's the right tool for the job.

Cecil Arnold
02-13-2005, 12:23 AM
Why not save some bucks and rent an airless to do your drywall. Around here we can get an airless for something in the range of $65 a day, and I can tell you that you can spray a heck of a lot of paint in a day. In one case I covered about 9000 sq.ft. of drywall (about 25-40 gal. of latex) in well under a day. In November I painted three bedrooms and 2 baths using about 5 gal. of latex in just over a half day. It took more time to mask than to paint. By renting you can save enough to have put something toward a good conversion gun or buy a nice (Turbineaire, Fuji, etc) turbing HVLP system to finish your finer projects that require laquer or shellac. Just my suggestion.

Dustin Thompson
02-13-2005, 8:16 AM
Airless sprayers can really CRANK out the paint! I think some models may put out a half gallon or more per minute. Obviously you can tweak the settings to reduce the material flow, but when you have the airless systems turned up high, you'd best have your running shoes on. You can spray latex in an hvlp, but smaller and less expensive systems, which are usually two stage turbines, usually don't have the juice to "atomize" thick coatings like latex paint well. You have to thin the heck out of them.
The latex I have sprayed I cut with water, and I end up putting around 2+ ounces of water in every quart. YMMV, and remember that some paints are definitely thicker than others. Even with all the tweaking, the resulting finish you get from latex isn't perfect. I still prefer a poorly sprayed raised panel door to a hand brushed one. I have the accuspray 4 stage turbine, which I think is the 240c. It is a nice rig.
Cecil mentions a good point on renting. I have rented airless a few times and like the titan airless sprayers. Watch out for fingers at both ends of the spray fan on airless. If the material flow is set really high, or if the gun hadn't been cleaned properly, the "fingers" could be kind of prominent. Kind of like roller marks on a rolled paint job.
That was a long winded post, but I hope you got some helpful info. To wrap things up, hvlp is really oriented towards finer finishes, and you might find it takes a long time to paint walls with an hvlp. The airless sprayers are designed for fast coverage, perfect for wall and ceiling painting. Mask up everything, tape up your shoes, wear coveralls and a respirator. A headsock may be good for ceilings. Good luck!

Dustin

Chris Haney
02-13-2005, 8:48 AM
Sounds unanimous. I guess we will go with the airless for painting. Thanks for the feedback. Now for my next question...which one to buy? HD has the Wagner airless ($178) and the Graco Magnum DX ($298) which are both in our price range. Which one would you suggest?


I know someone mentioned something about renting one but it makes more sense to buy one if I am going to use it more than twice (especially since I am only paying half of the cost).

Jason Roehl
02-13-2005, 9:01 AM
I think some models may put out a half gallon or more per minute. Obviously you can tweak the settings to reduce the material flow, but when you have the airless systems turned up high, you'd best have your running shoes on.
Dustin
Half a gallon a minute is a tiny airless sprayer, in the grand scheme of things. Our painting biz owns a 1 gal/min model, and that's still not really getting into the realm of the big boys, but it is rated to shoot 200-300 gal/week.

A quick lesson on airless spray setup. Your tip size determines your pressure setting and material flow. You set the pressure based on the tip and material you are using, not based on the amount of paint you want to push. (You would choose the tip based on the amount of paint you want to move.) More pressure than what fills the spray pattern will simply bounce the paint off the surface and become airborne--and wasted. It's the difference between 5% waste and 25% waste. A 517 tip has a 10" wide pattern at 12" from the surface, and a .017" orifice. That would be a typical tip used for spraying new drywall with latex/acrylic paint. You should be moving at about 2 ft/sec with a tip like that with even coverage in the pattern (not a cloud-like appearance). 12" from the surface is a little far, IMO, I generally hold the tip about 8-9" away (less overspray), and overlap about half. On new drywall, you should also be back-rolling (roll immediately after spraying, preferably a second person right behind the sprayer) the material. Don't make me explain, but it's better. Textured ceilings don't have to be back-rolled.

Don't even attempt to shoot the drywall with an HVLP--you'll have to be forcibly removed in straitjacket by the time you are done.

Addy protocol: I've easily shot into the thousands of gallons of paint, but I still try to improve my technique each time out, rather than practice the bad ones I see many "professionals" use (overspray is evil, it must be reduced, I say).

dale rex
02-13-2005, 10:25 PM
I am in the painting business too and agree that airless is the way to go for walls. HVLP is only for smaller projects and trim(louvers,crown molding, etc). Sometimes we spray panel doors with the HVLP because the equipment cleanup is alot easier, but the spraying speed is not equivalent. One thing to remember with any sprayer, especially airless, keep it very clean!I cant tell you how many times I had set up for spraying and finally got started when the sprayer just craps out and looses pressure and just pumps away like crazy. I spend alot of time cleaning it after each use, but all it takes is one little piece of dried paint skin inside the intake ball valve to really mess things up. Needles to say I have learned from experience how to diagnose these ills....lol. Sometimes it is alot easier to just skip the spraying and just roll the walls, less cleanup and less prep.(no masking):rolleyes: I hate the masking part of it....and spraying keeps you moving very quickly. It is not easy work.

Marcus Hutchison
02-14-2005, 1:28 AM
Hello Chris,

I would definately go with the airless. I have a cabinet shop & spray pre-cat laquer almost exclusively. You can get a glass smooth finish with some (O.K. actually a lot of) practice. An airless is a whole different animal if you've never used one. It puts out a lot of finish, & fast. It is a little intimidating at first, but after you get used to it you will wonder how you ever finished things so slowly before. If you are going to spray clear finishes later you will want to have a seperate hose for the paint & clear finishes. After you spray one finish, clean the pump really well & change hoses before you switch & you shouldn't have any problems. I use a fine finish tip I get from Sherwin-Williams called Rack X size 313. The first number is the fan size, which is half the actual fan width. So for mine it has a 6" fan. The second number is the oriface size, which controls the volume. The bigger oriface the more volume of finish.

One last thing, be careful of the spray rigs you buy at Lowe's or Home Depot. Even though they may be Graco, the guns aren't as heavy duty as the more expensive rigs. My first airless was one I bought at Lowe's & even though it said you could spray laquer, half-way through the first job the gun started to leak like crazy. We finally figured out that the laquer had dissolved something plastic in the gun. The heavier duty guns are all metal & have needle valves instead of washers. I had to take the airless back & buy a better one. I ended up with a Graco Nova 395. It's a fairly small rig. It sprays .38 gallons per minute, but it's just the thing for clear finishes.

greg kurtock
02-14-2005, 5:37 PM
Just to add to what everybody else said, you can spray latex with HVLP, but probably not the $300 one. I refinished a kitchen's worth of cabinets using a 4-stage Fuji, with unthinned latex (Flotrol added though). The results were outstanding. I usually use it for enamels and a lot for laquer, but you can use it for latex, like for painted six panel doors. But, like everybody has said, it would be too slow for drywall.

Greg

Dustin Thompson
02-15-2005, 10:20 PM
Greg, what was the paint you were spraying? I have sprayed both devoe and Ben Moore paints with the 4 stage accuspray and got "decent" results. I'd like to hear your ratio of paint to floetrol, as well.

Dustin

Chris Haney
02-15-2005, 11:07 PM
Thanks to everyone for their input. I decided to get the airless sprayer and wait on the HVLP. As I said before, right now, I have more large painting projects than I do smaller finishing projects. The HVLP will have to wait another day......


I went with the Graco Magnum XR5...a step up from the Magnum DX. Found a new one on eBay that cost me just a little more than the Magnum DX would have cost me at the BORG. Since I'm only paying for 1/2 of it, it seemed to make more sense to buy it rather than rent it. Based on everyone's comments, my next purchase will be paint coveralls, a head sock, and lots of masking tape and plastic (I already have a respirator). Thanks again for your help.

Jean-Paul Dusse
04-28-2008, 2:19 PM
Just to add to what everybody else said, you can spray latex with HVLP, but probably not the $300 one. I refinished a kitchen's worth of cabinets using a 4-stage Fuji, with unthinned latex (Flotrol added though). The results were outstanding. I usually use it for enamels and a lot for laquer, but you can use it for latex, like for painted six panel doors. But, like everybody has said, it would be too slow for drywall.

Greg

Hi Greg, can you tell me if you sprayed indoor (in the kitchen), and was it a mess afterward to clean up , what about vapors,... "paint dust",,,. do you have to protect the floor,.. walls. your input is welcome

Jason Roehl
04-28-2008, 4:02 PM
Jean-Paul,

If you click on Greg's name above, then "View Public Profile", you'll see that he has not logged on here in about two years. That's what happens when one digs up old threads. ;)

That said, spraying waterborne finishes indoors is easier to mitigate than slow-drying oil-based finishes. Oil-based mist stays wet for a long time, and will stick to whatever it hits, almost no matter how far it drifts, so protection of surrounding areas is far more critical. With waterborne, you can shut off any air-handling units, put down drop cloths in the room, maybe cover doorways and you're good to go.

Craig McCormick
04-28-2008, 6:51 PM
Two things to consider when purchasing a cheap airless sprayer.

1. Which one has the highest psi? Higher psi means less paint thinning. With a more expensive sprayer you may not have to thin at all.

2. Buy one with a metal gum not plastic.

When you are done cleaning up run a mixture of automotive anti freeze and water through the pump and gun. this will keep the insides lubricated and prevent rust. I store my gun in a bucket of the anti freeze mixture between jobs.

Good luck,

Craig