A little help please.

[Gordon Eyre]

I picked up a plane in fair condition at a garage sale for $5.00. There is nothing wrong with the plane except for some surface rust. It is a Stanley and the only marking on the bed of the plane is C556 MP (other than "Made in the USA". The plane is 9" in length and the blade is 1 3/4" wide. Can someone help me with where this fits in with the normal Stanley numbering system; e.g., 3, 4, 5, 7, etc. There is a 5 marked on the frog but this plane seems too short for a #5.

Side View:

http://www.pbase.com/greyflash/image/135811664/original.jpg

Number on body:

http://www.pbase.com/greyflash/image/135811665/original.jpg

Number on frog:

http://www.pbase.com/greyflash/image/135811666/original.jpg

[Chris Griggs]

Post some pics please...

[Gordon Eyre]

Post some pics please...

Chris I have added pictures above. Note the different number on the frog and the body of the plane.

[Matt Radtke]

Well, based on the color and the style of frog, I'd say you got a rather modern plane. Sorry ;-)

The 1 3/4" blade width would indicate a #3 size.

[Gordon Eyre]

Well, based on the color and the style of frog, I'd say you got a rather modern plane. Sorry ;-)

The 1 3/4" blade width would indicate a #3 size.

For the amount I paid for this plane I really don't care if it is modern or old Matt, I was more interested in the numbering system (C556). Did Stanley change over their numbering system on the more modern planes? Even though I have been doing woodworking for many years I have never had much interest in planes but I am trying to learn. I have just reconditioned a #5 Stanley and also purchased a Lie Nielsen block plane not to mention the Veritas MK II honing guide and water stones.

Thanks for your input.

[Chris Griggs]

Yeah 1 3/4 inch blade does indicate a #3 size. No idea what kind of plane it is otherwise. Could be a "frankinplane". It may not be a Stanley, and someone might have just put a Stanley lever cap on it. The weird number and lack of other markings does make it seem like it might be a newer plane (<40 years old). Really, I'm just guessing though.

Nothing to do, but tune it up and see if you can get it working.

[Chris Griggs]

For the amount I paid for this plane I really don't care if it is modern or old Matt. I was more interested in the numbering system (C556). Did Stanley change over their numbering system on the more modern planes?

Thanks for your input.

I don't think they actually changed their number system in terms of plane size, but I believe they did start putting other model numbers on them.

[Jim Koepke]

The numbers cast on the body and frog may be part numbers or other controls used by Stanley.

It is a #3 size plane.

I am not sure of the dating on this plane, but I can say it was made for a market that wanted an inexpensive way to take care of the sticking door their wife was nagging them to fix. Buy plane, knock off some chunks of wood, put plane on shelf in garage, go watch TV and gloat in heroism for a day.

The frog is not machined, lapping the frog face can help here.

It is possible to make a plane like this be a useful tool.

It will also be a good learning plane for future plane fettling.

jtk

[Matt Radtke]

I've avoided such planes more from habit than anything, but the first thing I'd do would be to buy the thickest aftermarket blade you can. First, that frog doesn't offer much support for the blade, so the blade itself will need to be stronger. Second, the mouth might be a gaping maw, and a 3, being the smoother that it is, should have a tight mouth. A bigger blade will help close it off.

Sadly, I suspect it will never be a great plane. Possibly usable. Worst case, you take that nice, fancy blade in a nicer #3.

Personally, Stanley made so many planes, that one can be slightly choosey and still have millions to choose from.

My filter list is, in order of most to least strict:

1) Japanned black (Used a type 20-blue once, awful.)
2) Pre-ogee frog (most contact area between blade and frog)
3) Rosewood handles (just more comfortable)
4) With lateral adjuster (skips the more collectable older models with prices to match)

And that's it, really. Though to be fair, my favorite plane, my #8 has an ogee frog and user made walnut handle. The super-thick LN blade probably helps.

[Andrew Gibson]

That is not a stanley lateral adjuster. It appears to be a sargent... the lateral adjuster looks like it has the sargent U shape bend.

My guess would be that it is a Sargent with a stanley lever cap.

[Matt Radtke]

That is not a stanley lateral adjuster. It appears to be a sargent... the lateral adjuster looks like it has the sargent U shape bend..

I'll defer to you, but the type-20 5 1/4 I owned had a very similar adjuster. The quote I find on google is "The lateral adjustment lever is no longer a two-piece construction, but now is one piece with the thumb grip bent over."

[Gordon Eyre]

Chris, Jim, Matt and Andrew;

Thanks so much for your input it was most helpful. Besides, I probably will not spend a lot of time trying to make it something that it will never be. I may lap the frog just for experience. Perhaps it is time for me to buy a Lie Nielsen #5 size plane to go with my low angle block plane. No wonder I have never placed a lot of trust in using a plane. It's because all three of my planes are junk. OK, I am convinced. By the way, I thought that the throat opening on this plane was pretty large. I am learning more as each day passes.

[Chris Griggs]

If you get an LN bench plane, I would go with something other than a 5. Good 5s are very common on the used market and as you get more into planes there is a good chance that the 5 will eventually become a plane you use for rough work. Not that you will ever regret owning a premium 5 - it will always have a use. But for that money I'd either get a 5 1/2 or a low angle jack as a first general purpose plane - both are less common and quite a bit more expensive on the used market and have some unique advantages in certain situations.

EDIT - I guess I should add that while I own a couple 5s, I don't actually own a 5 1/2 or a low angle jack, just wish I did.

[Matt Radtke]

I agree--I'd pass on a premium #5. 5s, 5 1/2s, and 6s are roughing planes ala a belt sander with 60-grit paper. If they're not perfectly flat, its no big deal. If the mouth is wide open, good! We want a wide mouth to pass those rough shavings!

I guess I should ask, What Do You Want Your Plane To Do For You?

[Jim Koepke]

I am with the others on suggesting something other than a #5 for the money.

The #4 & #5 are the two most common planes one finds at yard sales, flea markets and junque shops.

I know Utah is a bit sparse, but there are other options with the internet.

Any other advise would really depend on what you are planing to do with them.

If you have time to post pictures of your other planes I am sure others would like to see them.

jtk

[Gordon Eyre]

If you get an LN bench plane, I would go with something other than a 5. Good 5s are very common on the used market and as you get more into planes there is a good chance that the 5 will eventually become a plane you use for rough work. Not that you will ever regret owning a premium 5 - it will always have a use. But for that money I'd either get a 5 1/2 or a low angle jack as a first general purpose plane - both are less common and quite a bit more expensive on the used market and have some unique advantages in certain situations.

EDIT - I guess I should add that while I own a couple 5s, I don't actually own a 5 1/2 or a low angle jack, just wish I did.


I agree--I'd pass on a premium #5. 5s, 5 1/2s, and 6s are roughing planes ala a belt sander with 60-grit paper. If they're not perfectly flat, its no big deal. If the mouth is wide open, good! We want a wide mouth to pass those rough shavings!

I guess I should ask, What Do You Want Your Plane To Do For You?


I am with the others on suggesting something other than a #5 for the money.

The #4 & #5 are the two most common planes one finds at yard sales, flea markets and junque shops.

I know Utah is a bit sparse, but there are other options with the internet.

Any other advise would really depend on what you are planing to do with them.

If you have time to post pictures of your other planes I am sure others would like to see them.

jtk

I had to chuckle a bit as you three were all telling me how great it was to use a real quality plane like a Veritas or Lie Nielsen and then as soon as I begin to talk about actually purchasing one you all talk me out of it. I had actually gone so far as to be on the Lie Nielsen site with a #4 1/2 smoothing plane in my shopping cart and was about ready to check out when I read your posts above. I couldn't help but bust out laughing.

I will go online and see what I can find used but frankly I am pretty big on buying quality tools and if the used price is anywhere near the new price I will always buy new. There is something about being the first to use a tool and then taking good care of it so that it is always first rate. I have three votes from you against a #5 but actually what I really wanted was a smoothing plane and so I was going to go with a 4 1/2. If you could afford a new LN plane what would you buy and why? A couple of articles that I read said that "if I could only afford one plane it would be a #5." Hmmmm.

[Chris Griggs]

I had to chuckle a bit as you three were all telling me how great it was to use a real quality plane like a Veritas or Lie Nielsen and then as soon as I begin to talk about actually purchasing one you all talk me out of it. I had actually gone so far as to be on the Lie Nielsen site with a #4 1/2 smoothing plane in my shopping cart and was about ready to check out when I read your posts above. I couldn't help but bust out laughing.

I will go online and see what I can find used but frankly I am pretty big on buying quality tools and if the used price is anywhere near the new price I will always buy new. There is something about being the first to use a tool and then taking good care of it so that it is always first rate. I have three votes from you against a #5 but actually what I really wanted was a smoothing plane and so I was going to go with a 4 1/2. If you could afford a new LN plane what would you buy and why? A couple of articles that I read said that "if I could only afford one plane it would be a #5." Hmmmm.

A premium smoothing plane is money well spent. Those are the planes that really benefit from being built to perfection. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that you get a premium smoothing plane.

[Chris Griggs]

I think the whole "if you only get one plane get a 5" things assumes that it is the only plane you'll ever have. A 5 is wonderful jack of all trades, but it has a specific use as well and in the end it may not to smooth as well as a dedicated smoother and definitely won't joint long boards as well as a dedicated jointer.

[Matt Radtke]

Agreed. If you want a nice modern plane, buy a smoother or jointer. As you mention that you don't trust planes, I assume you are primarily a power tool user? Probably have a powered planner and jointer? A smoother is for you, go forth and buy one!

As far as what size, some recommend scaling the smoother to your work. 16 person dinning table? 4 1/2. Jewelery Box? 3. Model furniture? 1.

Other have their preferences that are as rational as chocolate vs. vanilla.

But again, for an honest recommendation, what do you want the plane to do? Square rough stock, flatten it, final smoothing before finishing?

[Gordon Eyre]

Thanks Chris and Matt. Your thoughts and suggestions are all good and I appreciate your time in making them. I do want a smoother so that when I am building a piece of furniture, whether a piano bench, table, dresser or what have you, I want the top to be perfect. When gluing up boards for a top, even with biscuits, the boards generally come out of register a bit in the middle and in the past I sand them smooth. What I would like to do is to use a good plane to make the top flat and smooth. I am in hopes that a good well built plane will do that. Matt, you are right, I am primarily a power tool user but would like to use a little more finesse.

Again, thanks for your input.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Gordon, in my opinion the benefit of a smoothing planes comes in with regards the surface it leaves behind for finishing. For what you describe you need a two step process, a jointer plane to create a flat surface followed by a smoother for the final surface before you apply a finish. I'll let other more experienced neanders offer their views.

[Archie England]

I agree with Jim! This is a good learning project plane.

First, it's got the bed of what I've always thought was the Canadian marketed Stanley (could be UK or USA). I had a #5 just like it but longer. Yours is probably the #3 equal. And, this will make into a great scrub plane if you'll heavily camber that blade. Likewise, as a scrub, the chatter won't be detrimental.

It is possible to tune these very late types. My two rehabs took a lot of time to lap the soles, sand the face of the frog, remove paint from the frog and bedding areas where 100% of contact is desired. Moreover, the slop of the adjustment knob on my planes was terrible. Consequently, I set them for course use and never tried to coax anything further from them. (Oh, I eventually gave them away.)

Btw, don't under estimate the value of a plane set for coarse/heavy shavings' removal. When there's the need to remover a 1/4" of wood, use a coarse set plane to hog off the unwanted areas, then move to you jointer and finishing plane.

Though a thicker blade will most likely reduce chatter in this plane, it's just not a quality enough user to invest $50 or so into a good blade and chipbreaker. As a $5 grab, it's a steal to transform into a coarse hog or a nifty scrub.

just my 2 cents,

Archie

[Matt Radtke]

Gordon,

It might help to think of your planes not unlike various power tools. WARNING: gross over-simplifications and generalizations to follow.

Smooth plane, stanley 1, 2, 3, 4, 4 1/2. Think of this as a palm sander with 300 grit paper. These planes are probably the only ones where taking a shaving in the 0.001" range is a good idea. Generally the first plane a power tool user will buy, as it can eliminate sanding. They typically don't make wood flat, just look good. Smoothers are short to ride any imperfections, not correct them.

A fore or jack plane is a combination of a power jointer, planer, and belt sander. Takes thick shavings, 1/32-1/16 range. Takes rough cut lumber and removes twist, cupping, and can do some thicknessing. It makes wood "flat-ish" Probably the last plane a power tool user would find useful.

A jointer is used to joint edges (duh) and also take faces that you made flat-ish from the fore truly flat. Medium shaving.

The only real difference between the roles of the planes are length and shaving thickness, though a few different sub-details are involved shaving thickness.

Fore: 14-18" long, thick shaving: wide open mouth, heavily cambered (curved) iron
Jointer: 22"+ long, medium shaving, medium mouth, slight camber
Smooth: 10" and shorter. Somewhere between very little camber and no camber. Tissue paper shavings.

It should also be noted that the lengths are relative. If you do small enough work, there's no reason why you could use a 3 for smoothing, a 5 setup as a fore, and a 5 setup as a jointer.

[Chris Griggs]

Good thorough description Matt. Gordon, Matts description hopefully explains why so few of use get by with just one or two bench planes.

So what do you do. Well, given that you are dimensioning with a power jointer/planer you really don't NEED a roughing plane.

As Zahid says what you describe would require two planes, but that's only if you want to finish the panels without sanding. I am going to go ahead and assume that you are using a ROS for you final smoothing, which means a smoothing plane isn't really what you need.

My new recommendation is that you consider a 5 1/2 or 6. These planes tend to get grouped in with jack/fore (roughing planes), but really where they shine is as panel planes. What is a panel plane? - its a plane that excels at flattening and to some extent smoothing large panels - which is what you want to do. You could use a 7 or 8 for this, but it might be overkill for what you describe. The 5 1/2 or 6 are long enough that they keep things pretty flat and can bring down high spots, but are easier to wield than a 7 or 8 and can do a better job at near final smoothing.

It is not uncommon to see these two planes recommended to power tool users for these reasons. If you got a 5 1/2 or a 6, you could first set it for a medium cut to bring down the ridges in your panels and then lighten up the cut to make the surface smooth - from there, unless you get lots of tear out from the plane, you would have minimal sanding to do to get the panel ready for finishing.

Planes in the 5-6 range are extremely versatile - but most have one a task that they excel at. In my mind the 5 1/2 and 6's bread and butter are exactly what you say you would like to do.

Of course, if you have the means and desire to get two planes then ignore my recommendation and do what Zahid said.

[Chris Griggs]

Also, I would call LN before you make a purchase - tell them what you want to do - they will give you great advice and make sure you purchase a plane that fits your needs.

[Gordon Eyre]

Gordon, in my opinion the benefit of a smoothing planes comes in with regards the surface it leaves behind for finishing. For what you describe you need a two step process, a jointer plane to create a flat surface followed by a smoother for the final surface before you apply a finish. I'll let other more experienced neanders offer their views.

Your suggestion has some appeal to me in that even though I might only buy one plane at this time it would fulfill a distinct purpose and not just be a jack of all trades type option. Thanks.


I agree with Jim! This is a good learning project plane.

First, it's got the bed of what I've always thought was the Canadian marketed Stanley (could be UK or USA). I had a #5 just like it but longer. Yours is probably the #3 equal. And, this will make into a great scrub plane if you'll heavily camber that blade. Likewise, as a scrub, the chatter won't be detrimental.

It is possible to tune these very late types. My two rehabs took a lot of time to lap the soles, sand the face of the frog, remove paint from the frog and bedding areas where 100% of contact is desired. Moreover, the slop of the adjustment knob on my planes was terrible. Consequently, I set them for course use and never tried to coax anything further from them. (Oh, I eventually gave them away.)

Btw, don't under estimate the value of a plane set for coarse/heavy shavings' removal. When there's the need to remover a 1/4" of wood, use a coarse set plane to hog off the unwanted areas, then move to you jointer and finishing plane.

Though a thicker blade will most likely reduce chatter in this plane, it's just not a quality enough user to invest $50 or so into a good blade and chipbreaker. As a $5 grab, it's a steal to transform into a coarse hog or a nifty scrub.

just my 2 cents,

Archie

Thanks Archie. Heavy stock removal does not fit in with my plans in that I can use my planer and/or jointer to remove the heavy stuff. What I saw with bench planes is the finesse part of woodworking. I will keep my current planes and continue with the reconditioning (even if just for a learning experience) and then buy one good plane at this time and perhaps more later.


Gordon,

It might help to think of your planes not unlike various power tools. WARNING: gross over-simplifications and generalizations to follow.

Smooth plane, stanley 1, 2, 3, 4, 4 1/2. Think of this as a palm sander with 300 grit paper. These planes are probably the only ones where taking a shaving in the 0.001" range is a good idea. Generally the first plane a power tool user will buy, as it can eliminate sanding. They typically don't make wood flat, just look good. Smoothers are short to ride any imperfections, not correct them.

A fore or jack plane is a combination of a power jointer, planer, and belt sander. Takes thick shavings, 1/32-1/16 range. Takes rough cut lumber and removes twist, cupping, and can do some thicknessing. It makes wood "flat-ish" Probably the last plane a power tool user would find useful.

A jointer is used to joint edges (duh) and also take faces that you made flat-ish from the fore truly flat. Medium shaving.

The only real difference between the roles of the planes are length and shaving thickness, though a few different sub-details are involved shaving thickness.

Fore: 14-18" long, thick shaving: wide open mouth, heavily cambered (curved) iron
Jointer: 22"+ long, medium shaving, medium mouth, slight camber
Smooth: 10" and shorter. Somewhere between very little camber and no camber. Tissue paper shavings.

It should also be noted that the lengths are relative. If you do small enough work, there's no reason why you could use a 3 for smoothing, a 5 setup as a fore, and a 5 setup as a jointer.

Excellent description Matt and most helpful. Thanks for taking the time to write that out for me.


Good thorough description Matt. Gordon, Matts description hopefully explains why so few of use get by with just one or two bench planes.

So what do you do. Well, given that you are dimensioning with a power jointer/planer you really don't NEED a roughing plane.

As Zahid says what you describe would require two planes, but that's only if you want to finish the panels without sanding. I am going to go ahead and assume that you are using a ROS for you final smoothing, which means a smoothing plane isn't really what you need.

My new recommendation is that you consider a 5 1/2 or 6. These planes tend to get grouped in with jack/fore (roughing planes), but really where they shine is as panel planes. What is a panel plane? - its a plane that excels at flattening and to some extent smoothing large panels - which is what you want to do. You could use a 7 or 8 for this, but it might be overkill for what you describe. The 5 1/2 or 6 are long enough that they keep things pretty flat and can bring down high spots, but are easier to wield than a 7 or 8 and can do a better job at near final smoothing.

It is not uncommon to see these two planes recommended to power tool users for these reasons. If you got a 5 1/2 or a 6, you could first set it for a medium cut to bring down the ridges in your panels and then lighten up the cut to make the surface smooth - from there, unless you get lots of tear out from the plane, you would have minimal sanding to do to get the panel ready for finishing.

Planes in the 5-6 range are extremely versatile - but most have one a task that they excel at. In my mind the 5 1/2 and 6's bread and butter are exactly what you say you would like to do.

Of course, if you have the means and desire to get two planes then ignore my recommendation and do what Zahid said.

I am going to think long term even if I just get one plane at this time. The second plane when I purchase it will be to fulfill the other end of this long term plan. Thanks for all of your comments and the time you have spent in helping me.


Also, I would call LN before you make a purchase - tell them what you want to do - they will give you great advice and make sure you purchase a plane that fits your needs.

Yes Chris, this is what I will do.

[Andrew Gibson]

I'll defer to you, but the type-20 5 1/4 I owned had a very similar adjuster. The quote I find on google is "The lateral adjustment lever is no longer a two-piece construction, but now is one piece with the thumb grip bent over."

That could very well be. I have not studied this late in the Stanley line. I am surprised that Stanley would revert back and bend there lateral adjuster like a Sargent of old. you would think it would be cheaper to just twist it like a union.