Titebond III or Titebond Hide Glue for crib build

[Josh Rudolph]

I am getting close to time for assembly of a crib I am working on.

For this build which glue would you prefer and why?

Thanks

[Robert Chapman]

I'd use the TBIII since I assume that you will not ever want to take the crib apart. I think that you get a stronger bond with the III. You can disassemble something you build with hide glue - but I don't remember how off hand.

[John TenEyck]

If your glue-ups will take less than 5 minutes, then TB III. If your glue-ups require long open time, then hide glue or an extended open time PVA glue would be better.

[Josh Rudolph]

John,

Good point...I was only thinking about the reversibility aspect of hide glue and not the open time. Starting to sway to the hide glue more.

[Rich Engelhardt]

TB hide glue contains ammonia thiocyanate. I doubt if there would be enough to cause any harm - but - why risk it?

[Lee Schierer]

I used plain old Elmers carpenter glue and it worked just fine for two kids. http://mysite.verizon.net/us71na/crib3.jpg If your joints are properly fitted and you wipe off any excess glue the risk of exposure to any child to the glue is extremely remote.

Just about any curing film finish (lacquer, shellac, polyurethane) solvent or water based can be used because once they cure they are essentially nothing more than plastic and the child would have to eat a considerable amount of the finish and wood to do any harm at all. You'll want to stay away from the oil type finishes

[Josh Rudolph]

You'll want to stay away from the oil type finishes

Not wanting start a debate, but why stay away from oil finishes? I always thought that once an oil finish is dry and cured it is safe also. The crib will be out of Curly Maple and will be transitioned into a bed. My current plan is to dye, seal-a-cell or Waterlox, and topcoat with Waterlox. The oil is to really accent the curl.

I am still pretty split on which glue to use...I know Titebond III and have a lot of it. However I like the reversibility of the Hide Glue and the longer working time. I am trying to envision fitting 11 slats into their respective mortises (22 mortises) and then the rails into their respective mortises (6) in the legs. That is for each section of the build. That extra open time could save me.

[Mark Engel]

I built a cradle and two cribs over the past three years for my Granddaughters. I used TBIII for all. TBIII has about 10 minutes open time.


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[Ernie Miller]

I'm not sure about the open time for cold hide glue, but I'm pretty sure that hot hide glue has a very short open time.

Ernie

[Howard Acheson]

John,

Good point...I was only thinking about the reversibility aspect of hide glue and not the open time. Starting to sway to the hide glue more.

Why do you think you will have to open a joint at some later date? I've built a number of cribs and using PVA adhesives and never had a failure. That said, if you use plain old standard Original Titebond, the joints can easily be opened with hot water and vinegar or by heating them with an infrared heat lamp.

Another point, there are a number of ways to glue up a crib with lots so slats. One is to just put the glue in mortices of one railing, assemble the side and use the other rail, dry-fitted, to provide alignment and support. When the glue is dry, remove the dry-fitted rail, apply glue to the pockets and clamp. This allows faster assembly without a lot of stress.

Another thing, not all slat joints need to be glued. On a couple of cribs, I just glued every other or every third slat. That's plenty to keep the side together and allows you you to glue and assemble much quicker.

Finally, go through at least two complete dry-fits. This way you can have your clamps and cauls pre-set where you need them and you will be sure everything fits together properly. Takes a lot of the stress away.

[Lee Schierer]

Not wanting start a debate, but why stay away from oil finishes? I always thought that once an oil finish is dry and cured it is safe also. The crib will be out of Curly Maple and will be transitioned into a bed. My current plan is to dye, seal-a-cell or Waterlox, and topcoat with Waterlox. The oil is to really accent the curl.


True oil finishes don't dry for a long time. A good lacquer finish will show off the curl without darkening the wood as you can see here.http://home.earthlink.net/~us71na/maplebox.jpg Nothing but Deft Clear wood finish on this box.

[Josh Rudolph]

I'm not sure about the open time for cold hide glue, but I'm pretty sure that hot hide glue has a very short open time.

I would be using the Titebond Hide Glue and from their website:
Open assembly time10 minutes (70°F./50% RH)
Total assembly time20-30 minutes (70°F./50%RH)
and Titebond III
Open assembly time10 minutes (70°F./50%RH)
Total assembly time20-25minutes (70°F./50%RH).

So the only benefit of hide glue over III in this application is reversibility.



Why do you think you will have to open a joint at some later date? I've built a number of cribs and using PVA adhesives and never had a failure.

I have a boy now with another on the way. This will be one of their beds. I know I broke 2 beds from rough housing before I was 10 years old. Beds get abused quite a bit by kids, so I would like to be able to ensure repair when something happens.


Another thing, not all slat joints need to be glued. On a couple of cribs, I just glued every other or every third slat. That's plenty to keep the side together and allows you you to glue and assemble much quicker.

My obsessive compulsiveness would not allow me to not glue each spindle. Grabbing one and having it potentially move/rattle would drive me nuts! :)


Finally, go through at least two complete dry-fits. This way you can have your clamps and cauls pre-set where you need them and you will be sure everything fits together properly. Takes a lot of the stress away.

I definitely plan on doing a dry fit or two. I have already borrowed bunch of clamps from a buddy in anticipation.

[Ernie Miller]

I would be using the Titebond Hide Glue and from their website:
Open assembly time10 minutes (70°F./50% RH)
Total assembly time20-30 minutes (70°F./50%RH)
and Titebond III
Open assembly time10 minutes (70°F./50%RH)
Total assembly time20-25minutes (70°F./50%RH).


I don't think I would count on 10 minutes of open time for hide glue. This glue is used extensively in the harpsichord industry and the open time is considered to be 2 minutes or less. Here's a clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aeu0lwFyS8) of a soundboard being installed using hide glue. In the first few seconds of the clip the builder talks about an open time of 90 seconds. This is probably a moot point as you seem to have decided against hide glue. Unless you have a lot of helpers to spread glue quickly, this is a good decision.

Ernie

[Josh Rudolph]

I don't think I would count on 10 minutes of open time for hide glue. This glue is used extensively in the harpsichord industry and the open time is considered to be 2 minutes or less. Here's a clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aeu0lwFyS8) of a soundboard being installed using hide glue. In the first few seconds of the clip the builder talks about an open time of 90 seconds. This is probably a moot point as you seem to have decided against hide glue. Unless you have a lot of helpers to spread glue quickly, this is a good decision.

Ernie

Titebond Hide Glue is not Hot hide glue. I would assume this product to have the same open time as III.

[Ernie Miller]

Titebond Hide Glue is not Hot hide glue. I would assume this product to have the same open time as III.

Thanks Josh - you're right of course. I guess I'm showing my age. I've always called cold hide glue "Franklin's". Titebonds' HIde Glue still says Franklin in small print on the bottom of the label. Whatever you call it, it's great stuff.

Ernie

[Mike Hall1]

I use Titebond III for glue-ups on large shutters that can take up to 25 minutes to fully assemble.

Mike

[Trevor Walsh]

I don't think the thought of not taking the crib apart is good justification for using titebond 3, I think liquid hide glue is the better choice because of it's ability to be repaired. I know Stephen Shepherd is one strong advocate against modern irreversible glues. At some point planned or not, there's probably going to be a repair sometime in it's life, PVA makes that a lot harder.