Coloring Question

[James Combs]

I treated some spalted maple pen blanks yesterday with colored resin.;) After the treatment I made the attached pen. It's not a bad looking pen but it certainly isn't red or even pink.:( You can just barely detect any coloration of the wood. I was wondering how concentrated colored resin has to be to show up inside the wood.:confused: I am using heat activated resin colored with red Alumilite dye. I put 4 drops in the batch of resin you see here (about 5-6ozs). It is the color I was looking for but not after it got into the wood.

I would appreciate any suggests you might have.

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[Ed Morgano]

James,
I have no experience with resin dye but it looks to me that it did not soak into the wood far enough and most or all of it got turned away when you turned the pen pieces. How long do you soak these pieces for and what depth of penatration are you supposed to get?

[James Combs]

James,
I have no experience with resin dye but it looks to me that it did not soak into the wood far enough and most or all of it got turned away when you turned the pen pieces. How long do you soak these pieces for and what depth of penatration are you supposed to get?

I am using a vacuum chamber to help with the penetration. You can read about it here http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?167816-Vacuum-Chamber-Prototype&highlight=. In my initial trials un-dyed resin penetrated 100% as far as I could tell. I cut a pen blank in half right after the vacuum process and it was wet all the way through. I suspect my problem is just dye concentration. If you look closely at the pen you can see a slight pinkish cast to what would normally be whiter wood. I am actually hoping that someone has a "recipe" for mixing the dye and the resin as in so many drops of dye to so many ounces of resin.

[Jim Burr]

Just a stab in the dark here JD, the molecules of the dye are larger than the resin, they will stop near the surface of the blank and the resin will just head on down with a few dye chunks in tow! I've yet to have a need to study the construct of a dye molecule, but I'm up for a little research. As a thought...try soaking a blank in dye before adding the resin, second test could be to try some while turning...1/32 before finishing the final shape. Should be a test!

[David E Keller]

Neat idea. I agree that it seems the dye didn't penetrate, but if you know it did, I'd triple the amount of dye you added. You got any really punky stuff you can try it with?

[James Combs]

Neat idea. I agree that it seems the dye didn't penetrate, but if you know it did, I'd triple the amount of dye you added. You got any really punky stuff you can try it with?

David this stuff is about as punky as it gets without it falling apart on it's own. Before the resin treatment it is kind of like trying to slice angel-food cake with the handle of a knife rather then the blade. The sharpest tools just tears out big chunks and it doesn't matter whether it is end grain or side grain. Actually it is so spalted and punky that you can't really tell the difference from end grain and side grain. It really should soak up the resin/colorant like a sponge. I will add 8 more drops to my mix and see how that does. That will triple the colorant content as you suggest.

[Tim Rinehart]

James, it wouldn't surprise me for you to discover that variations in concentration are needed for not only species of wood, but punk-levels too.
Looking forward to hearing how it goes...you're delving into stuff many of us are interested in, so keep good lab notes!
By the way, how much vacuum are you pulling and for how long while in the 'bath' of resin?

[James Combs]

James, it wouldn't surprise me for you to discover that variations in concentration are needed for not only species of wood, but punk-levels too.
Looking forward to hearing how it goes...you're delving into stuff many of us are interested in, so keep good lab notes!
By the way, how much vacuum are you pulling and for how long while in the 'bath' of resin?

I am going by the instructions for Cactus Juice. I am vacuuming till no bubbles and then letting it sit in the bath for 30 minutes after releasing the vacuum. I can't vouch for the accuracy of my gauge but it is suppose to be plus or minus 3% of the range. As you can see from the photo it is reading 29.5"hg but could be as low as 28.6 based on the stated accuracy of the gauge. What ever the value is it certainly deforms a 10" disk of 1/2" UHMW plastic. I have a small view port in the UHMW to make sure I don't foam the bath over. It is covered with 1/8" Lexan Polycarbonate. I have a large sheet of 3/8" polycarb that I was going to use but I am thinking I might need 1" or so which of course I can't find at least at any price I can afford. The good thing about Lexan is that it will bend and not break. I am trying to figure out a way to use two thicknesses of the 3/8" to give me 3/4". I will post my results later.

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[Prashun Patel]

i'm way out of my league here, but might you have better luck doing the dyeing and resin impregnation in 2 steps? Solubilizing the dye in acetone or ethanol ought to assist with penetration. sounds like you can then re pressurize with resin per yr original time, since the resin seems to have penetrated fine...?

Or is that a dumb idea because everyone knows you can't pressure treat blanks twice?

[Jerry Marcantel]

James, when you get your piece of polycarbonate to make your lid, why don't you vaccum form a dome into it, and then trim it to fit your cylinder. I've seen a lot of vaccum forming done, and vac forming poly c is pretty easy. You figure out the size you need for the od, leave it square with about 2" all the way around. If the wife is good natured, she won't mind you putting the poly c in her oven at about 250°?, cook it until it's limp, take it out to the cylinder, lay it on top, pull a vaccum until you reach a predetermined depth, release the vac. When it relaxes a little, pull the vaccum and release it again and again until it doesn't pull or relax anymore, or until the poly c is cold and dosen't move. Trim it up to fit your cylinder, and it shouldn't pull into the cylinder because you just changed it shape to a dome instead of flat lid that can flex. If you think you might want to do this, pm me and leave you phone number. Written instructions from me leave a lot to be desired, but verbal communication is just a bit better....... Jerry (in Tucson) .

[Jerry Marcantel]

On the coloring, if you look at the depth of the color bath, it looks to be about 1" deep. It's a beautiful red,(I think (colorblind)), but when you either apply it to a surface or soak it, it becomes thousand'ths of an inch thick. The color dissappears as it gets thinner. You might need to make your bath pretty dark to get the color you looking for. ..... 2 cents.......... Jerry (in Tucson)

[James Combs]

James, when you get your piece of polycarbonate to make your lid, why don't you vaccum form a dome into it, and then trim it to fit your cylinder. I've seen a lot of vaccum forming done, and vac forming poly c is pretty easy. You figure out the size you need for the od, leave it square with about 2" all the way around. If the wife is good natured, she won't mind you putting the poly c in her oven at about 250°?, cook it until it's limp, take it out to the cylinder, lay it on top, pull a vaccum until you reach a predetermined depth, release the vac. When it relaxes a little, pull the vaccum and release it again and again until it doesn't pull or relax anymore, or until the poly c is cold and dosen't move. Trim it up to fit your cylinder, and it shouldn't pull into the cylinder because you just changed it shape to a dome instead of flat lid that can flex. If you think you might want to do this, pm me and leave you phone number. Written instructions from me leave a lot to be desired, but verbal communication is just a bit better....... Jerry (in Tucson) .

Thanks Jerry I like the idea but there are a couple of problems with forming the polycarb. First, I only have about a 1/4" of overlap from the piece that I have, not even close to the 2" you suggest. Second, I was under the impression that to even cold form polycard its temperature has to be about 307°-340°F. That sure would make it a hot potato to handle. I like your idea but I may have to get a larger piece and do a little research before I try it. I sure do like doing different things so you will probably see a results post one of these days.

[James Combs]

On the coloring, if you look at the depth of the color bath, it looks to be about 1" deep. It's a beautiful red,(I think (colorblind)), but when you either apply it to a surface or soak it, it becomes thousand'ths of an inch thick. The color dissappears as it gets thinner. You might need to make your bath pretty dark to get the color you looking for. ..... 2 cents.......... Jerry (in Tucson)

Yeah, that's pretty much my conclusion also. I am going to try a couple more with triple the colorant. Thanks I will post the results.

[Curtis O. Seebeck]

James,

You need a MUCH higher concentration of dye. These were done on spanish oak burl blanks with white sapwood and the dyed Cactus Juice was almost black looking with the red or blue dye respectively. The color in these blanks go all the way through as shown on the surface. Remember, the space within the fibers of the wood that the Cactus Juice occupies is very small so the color has to be highly concentrated to overcome the color of the wood surrounding it. Different colored wood will take the dyed juice differently as well.
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