Trying to buy a Grizzly slider. Not available until 7/29

[Mark Engel]

I sold my Grizzly 1023Z and have been looking for my next saw. After a lot of research, I decided that the Grizzly G0623X would be a really good next step for me.

Unfortunately, there are none to be had. I am in NC so the machine would ship out of PA or MO. PA won't have any until July 29 and MO won't have any until OCTOBER!!! :(

Anyone got any recommendations for a sliding table saw for around 3k that someone might have available for sale? I would love a MiniMax or Feldor or Rojek or even a Laguna TSS, but they are all a little to high priced for my budget.

[Steve Rowe]

The only one I would consider in that price range is the Hammer K3.

[ed vitanovec]

Grizzly has the smaller G0700.

[Rick Fisher]

Have you checked used ?

[Mark Engel]

Grizzly has the smaller G0700.

I have checked the G0700. It doesn't have as much cross cut capacity (34" vs 63"). Still looking though.

Ed, you have had the G0623 for a while, correct? What are your ongoing impressions?

[Mark Engel]

Have you checked used ?

I have been checking the used market everyday. I found a used G0623 on Ex-Factory, but it is in Washington. Waiting on a shipping estimate, but the sales rep indicated that he thought shipping would be really high.

There are a few sliders available used, but most that I have seen are either too big for my shop or to expensive for my budget.

[Brian Cosgrove]

There is a minimally used Hammer K3 in the classified section for 4,000 or best offer, with several blades. I have the same saw and really like it. The dado king and woodworker II blade are worth around $500.

Brian

[John Shuk]

The only one I would consider in that price range is the Hammer K3.

It might be nice if you qualified that comment.

I'm not surprised at the fact that there is some wait time. This is a big serious machine and a supplier has to balance the supply to the demand.

[Jeff Monson]

There is a minimally used Hammer K3 in the classified section for 4,000 or best offer, with several blades. I have the same saw and really like it. The dado king and woodworker II blade are worth around $500.

Brian

I'll second that one, not sure how far you are from this seller? Here is the link

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?167689-Selling-off-my-tools-Hammer-etc.-Tolland-CT

That would be a GREAT saw for you.

[Mark Engel]

I would love to get that K3. Not sure if I could talk LOML into the extra $1k (took me a while to get to 3k)

Tolland, CT would be a loong drive from here in NC, about 10-12 hours. Might be worth the road trip, since I still have family in New Britain and Southington.

[Mark Engel]

Well ain't that somethin'.

I got an email from a customer service supervisor @ Grizzly. She had read this post and asked me to contact her, which I did as soon as I read the email.

After reading my post she checked with the buyers and found that the G0623X will be back in stock on July 11 in the MO warehouse, not October. That was good enough for me. My order has been placed. 3 (or so) weeks and counting.

Now that is how you do customer service. Thank you Grizzly (and special thanks to Jean)

[Cary Falk]

Well ain't that somethin'.

I got an email from a customer service supervisor @ Grizzly. She had read this post and asked me to contact her, which I did as soon as I read the email.

After reading my post she checked with the buyers and found that the G0623X will be back in stock on July 11 in the MO warehouse, not October. That was good enough for me. My order has been placed. 3 (or so) weeks and counting.

Now that is how you do customer service. Thank you Grizzly (and special thanks to Jean)

But, but, but what kind of customer service is that? They should have never ran out.:eek::D:D:D:D Somebody was going to say it. I'm glad it worked out for you. Congrats on your new toy. You know what they say. Now pictures didn't happen. I will be looking foward to the pictures when you get it.

[Neil Brooks]

I'd STILL keep working LOYL for the say-so on that extra grand.

A slider is NOT the only new tool out there, ya' know ;)

[Mark Engel]

I'd STILL keep working LOYL for the say-so on that extra grand.

A slider is NOT the only new tool out there, ya' know ;)

Oh yeah. Plus, the new accessories.

[Chris Tsutsui]

I paid for a 48x78 Hammer K3W in full on 4-25-11. The saw will arrive at my door 6-21-11.

That's approximately a 2 month lead time. :)

It took me about a month to sell my Grizzly 1023SLX with Excalibur sliding table attachment for $650. I also included brand new v-link belts and two like-new Freud Diablo 10" saw blades.

So IMO, waiting until July 29 is what I would do unless you absolutely need a saw right now for business reasons or whatever.

I had at least a month with no tablesaw and just used a track saw instead for a few hobby projects I worked on.

[ed vitanovec]

Mark,

I bought my G0623X 27 months ago. I have been very happy with it and glad to have a slider in my workshop that I can afford. The slider table saws are very expensive and this one is at a great price and the quality is great. I believe several people on this forum have bought one as well. The only thing I don't like about it is the blade guard, you can't see through it. I did contact shark guard and sent them prints of my riving knife and guard. He was telling me no problem making a riving knife and the guard would need to be designed from a 12" or 14" table saw which he currently does not have. I have not heard from shark guard in about 5 weeks, I know he is busy and hopefully will hear from him soon about a new guard for my saw.

[Mark Engel]

I paid for a 48x78 Hammer K3W in full on 4-25-11. The saw will arrive at my door 6-21-11.

That's approximately a 2 month lead time. :)

It took me about a month to sell my Grizzly 1023SLX with Excalibur sliding table attachment for $650. I also included brand new v-link belts and two like-new Freud Diablo 10" saw blades.

So IMO, waiting until July 29 is what I would do unless you absolutely need a saw right now for business reasons or whatever.

I had at least a month with no tablesaw and just used a track saw instead for a few hobby projects I worked on.


Congratulations on the new Hammer. That does look like a great machine. For my small hobby shop, I could not justify spending that much on a saw.

I was fortunate to find a buyer for my 1023Z saw even before I ever listed it anywhere. There was a member of another forum I participate in that posted that he was looking for a saw.

As for waiting, LOML had said the same thing. "If that's the one you want, order it and wait." As it turns out the wait will only be until July 11. Thanks again to Jean from Grizzly CS for folowing up on this for me.

[Mark Engel]

Mark,

I bought my G0623X 27 months ago. I have been very happy with it and glad to have a slider in my workshop that I can afford. The slider table saws are very expensive and this one is at a great price and the quality is great. I believe several people on this forum have bought one as well. The only thing I don't like about it is the blade guard, you can't see through it. I did contact shark guard and sent them prints of my riving knife and guard. He was telling me no problem making a riving knife and the guard would need to be designed from a 12" or 14" table saw which he currently does not have. I have not heard from shark guard in about 5 weeks, I know he is busy and hopefully will hear from him soon about a new guard for my saw.


Thanks for the update Ed. Your original post about the G0623 was one that convinced me to check out this model. I owned my G1023Z for ~10 years, so I know that Grizzly has good quality tools.

That blade guard is going to take some getting used to. I'll be watching for any additional information you get on the Shark Guard. If you get a moment maybe you can PM any contact information you have for who you spoke with about the Shark Guard so I can contact the same person. If they see that there is a market for these, that may help convince them to produce that size guard.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

FYI
Shark guards are pretty much a labor of love by a one man operation: Lee Styron. He's hired someone now and then to help but he'll be the one you'll exchange emails with.

[Mark Engel]

FYI
Shark guards are pretty much a labor of love by a one man operation: Lee Styron. He's hired someone now and then to help but he'll be the one you'll exchange emails with.

Thanks, Bill.

[John Paul Cummings]

Am I missing something, have been looking at the Hammer and Felder machines for some time and they are offering very impressive prices on the Hammer saws. They are trying to get some market in the US. Buying a Hammer table saw built in Austria for starting price of $ 2,999.00 seems amazing to me. That saw normally lists for over $ 5000.00. I would rather look at something built in Europe.

[scott vroom]

John Paul, do you have a link? thx

[Mark Engel]

Am I missing something, have been looking at the Hammer and Felder machines for some time and they are offering very impressive prices on the Hammer saws. They are trying to get some market in the US. Buying a Hammer table saw built in Austria for starting price of $ 2,999.00 seems amazing to me. That saw normally lists for over $ 5000.00. I would rather look at something built in Europe.

That $2,999 price does not include some of the things that come standard with the G0623. The scoring blade on the K3 is an option @ $416.00. To get the full size right side table is an extra $160, etc.

The G0623 will handle larger workpieces than the K3 31x31. Cross cut 31" for the Hammer vs 63" for the Grizzly.

Also, the Hammer will not use standard off the shelf saw blades. Their standard rip and cross cut blades are at the high end, most are over $100 . Look out if you want a dado blade, you would be looking at over $500. There is one dado that sells for $799!

Shipping costs are also higher. Standard shipping with no liftgate service is around $200.

When you add up all the costs, the G0623 seems to me to be a much better bang for the buck.

I owned my G1023Z for ~10 years and it work as good the day I sold it as it did the day I set it up. I expect this new saw to deliver the same kind of service.

[John Paul Cummings]

John Paul, do you have a link? thx
Hi Scott

They have 4 models they have very aggressively cut the prices to get into the US cabinet saw prices.

Link: http://www.hammerusa.com/products_features.php?parent=9e5e5cc98dc03df70393&xat_code=c396e92aedc576887d67f1706ce0d7ca&region=us-us&felder-group=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.feldergroupusa.com%2Fproduc ts_list.php%3Fsite_id%3D2%26region%3Dus-us%26category%3D9e5e5cc98dc03df70393

JP

[John Paul Cummings]

That $2,999 price does not include some of the things that come standard with the G0623. The scoring blade on the K3 is an option @ $416.00. To get the full size right side table is an extra $160, etc.

The G0623 will handle larger workpieces than the K3 31x31. Cross cut 31" for the Hammer vs 63" for the Grizzly.

Also, the Hammer will not use standard off the shelf saw blades. Their standard rip and cross cut blades are at the high end, most are over $100 . Look out if you want a dado blade, you would be looking at over $500. There is one dado that sells for $799!

Shipping costs are also higher. Standard shipping with no liftgate service is around $200.

When you add up all the costs, the G0623 seems to me to be a much better bang for the buck.

I owned my G1023Z for ~10 years and it work as good the day I sold it as it did the day I set it up. I expect this new saw to deliver the same kind of service.

Hi Mark

I guess the starting point with my comment is that I would rather support a US or European manufacturer if the products they offer are good and close to the $ mark. The Hammer stuff is good as we all know the Europeans just have cleaner machines ..... sorry, in my opinion. I still think you will be happy with the Grizzly - they have nice machines also. I have done a lot of homework on the subject and almost bought Hammers but had some family issues, this is what I found out.

1.) The Hammer machine has a Poly - V belt drive system. This grooved belt with grooved pulley system transfers the power of the motor a lot better, no slipping and you only lose about 2% of the power. V belts lose about 20%.
2.) The Hammer has a 12" main blade (not 10")
3.) The Hammer blades do have a 30mm arbor - they need this bigger arbor compared to the standard 5/8" in the US due to the bigger blades. The blades also have pin holes required due to the heavy breaking system the Hammer has in an emergency. Extra safety so the blade does not come loose. The Hammer blades are between $ 50 - $ 70 so not too bad. The Felder blades are very good quality and yes they are about $ 100 and up but you do not need this on your Hammer. Forrest offers many blades and also does the pins and the arbor changes as and when is required.
http://www.forrestsawbladesonline.com/
4.) The Hammer dado they offer is one of the best in the business and that is why the price is so much. If you want the best it’s always a little costly. The bigger arbor on the Hammer machine also seems better to me when planning to do some serious dado work. Again Forrest can help with something more economical, their Dado King is standard available with the Hammer arbor and pins. It’s the same as the Felder.
http://www.forrestsawbladesonline.com/category_3_Dado_King.html
5.) The shipping might simply be a little more because they have better insurance coverage or try to ship with a more direct route to avoid damage.
Again you will have fun with both machines, good luck.
JP

[John Paul Cummings]

One more thing, look at this sales video. Watch for the fine differences.

The Hammer has a round solid steel rip bar, better than the square version on the Grizzly. The scales on the rip and the crosscut fence can be fine adjusted .... and so on and so on.

http://www.hammerusa.com/products_videos.php?parent=9e5e5cc98dc03df70393&xat_code=5fa7eedb85caea80b1effb1a44a175d8&key=0&region=us-us

JP

[jonathan eagle]

Well I have a hammer n4400 bandsaw, and grizzly g0634xp on order. They BOTH keep slipping delivery dates. I ordered the grizz in march, now due early july. The hammer in april now due late july. The hammer had come in (a shipment of them), and apparently they were so defective that they couldn't ship any, so I have to wait for the next shipment!
So I am still waiting for the famed european quality!
I am very curious the quality levels compared to the smaller griz bandsaw and jointer I sold, prematurely, as it turns out.
Jonathan

[Mark Engel]

Hi Mark

I guess the starting point with my comment is that I would rather support a US or European manufacturer if the products they offer are good and close to the $ mark. The Hammer stuff is good as we all know the Europeans just have cleaner machines ..... sorry, in my opinion. I still think you will be happy with the Grizzly - they have nice machines also. I have done a lot of homework on the subject and almost bought Hammers but had some family issues, this is what I found out.

1.) The Hammer machine has a Poly - V belt drive system. This grooved belt with grooved pulley system transfers the power of the motor a lot better, no slipping and you only lose about 2% of the power. V belts lose about 20%.
2.) The Hammer has a 12" main blade (not 10")
3.) The Hammer blades do have a 30mm arbor - they need this bigger arbor compared to the standard 5/8" in the US due to the bigger blades. The blades also have pin holes required due to the heavy breaking system the Hammer has in an emergency. Extra safety so the blade does not come loose. The Hammer blades are between $ 50 - $ 70 so not too bad. The Felder blades are very good quality and yes they are about $ 100 and up but you do not need this on your Hammer. Forrest offers many blades and also does the pins and the arbor changes as and when is required.
http://www.forrestsawbladesonline.com/
4.) The Hammer dado they offer is one of the best in the business and that is why the price is so much. If you want the best it’s always a little costly. The bigger arbor on the Hammer machine also seems better to me when planning to do some serious dado work. Again Forrest can help with something more economical, their Dado King is standard available with the Hammer arbor and pins. It’s the same as the Felder.
http://www.forrestsawbladesonline.com/category_3_Dado_King.html
5.) The shipping might simply be a little more because they have better insurance coverage or try to ship with a more direct route to avoid damage.
Again you will have fun with both machines, good luck.
JP

Well I guess we could debate this step by step

1.) Any belt drive system will be between 90-99% efficient. I don't know where your 20% number came from. My number came from many sources including Wikipedia and this study (http://www.cptbelts.com/pdf/misc/energy_loss_and_belt_efficiency.pdf).
2.) The larger blade on the Hammer cannot be used with the scoring blade.
3.) I already have a number of blades that work perfectly well as they are. I can buy more locally if I need one quickly and I can get them on-line at a large number of dealers. I have never had a blade come loose that was properly installed.
4.) I have 2 stack dado sets that work great. My Oshlun set cost ~$90.00. I could spend $539.00-$799.00 for the Hammer Dado, but I can't see a difference in quality that would ever justify that differential in price.
5.) My Grizzly will be shipped via UPS freight with full insurance directly from MO. Why would I want to pay more for anything different.

BTW, Grizzly is an American company that uses several overseas manufacturers. Felder is an Austrian(?) company that has sales offices and warehousing in the US.

[Mark Engel]

JP, I know that I can spend more to get what is perceived to be a better quality machine. I see no reason to do that. I have had several Grizzly machines over the past 11 years. They have been of good quality and are a great value. I had the G1023Z since 2000. I am sure that the guy that bought it will still be using it for at least another 11 years.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Mark, I've never had a blade come loose either, however until I bought a Hammer I never owned a saw with a blade brake.

I don't know if I'd like to have a blade brake without the two pins that hold the blade stationary.

On the dado issue, I have an FS Tools dado set for my Hammer, available locally and made locally so it was a win-win for me. Obviously any reputable blade manufacturer can supply you a dado set for the Hammer.

I had all my 10" blades bored for the Hammer, and bought a new locally made 12" rip blade, as that's the only time I use stock that is too thick for a 10" blade.

One of the main concerns I had when investing in a machine that expensive and complex was service, and spare parts. Felder provide field service, and of course own the intellectual property, so if you need a part for a 30 old Felder, they pull the drawings and make you one.

Welcome to the world of sliders, I'm sure once you get used to it you'll wonder why you didn't buy one sooner..........Regards, Rod.

[John Paul Cummings]

Hi Mark

1.) Poly V belts last longer, slip less, has a wider contact area, have no joint that might cause vibration ..... it's a better belt system.
2.) Yes you can only use the 10" blade with the scorer but when I need the 12" I have the option available to me on the Hammer.
3.) Simply put you have blades available in the US for both machines. The pins are for your own protection and for extra safety due to the heavy breaking feature of the electronic breaking on the Hammer blade.
4.) The European dado sets are something to be experienced.
5.) I do not know enough about shipping but everything has a reason.

I guess I am on a different page then. I would rather deal factory direct with a company producing their own machines, it's worth the extra money to me. I have also owned many machines over the years and for me the question has never really been about how long they run, in this league they all run for many, many years. It has been the fit and finish, the details make the difference. A European manufactured machine is simply produced to a better tolerance, has more options and accessories allowing you to grow with the machine.

JP

[joe milana]

I was in Springfield just yesterday and stopped in to look at the Grizzly tools. I happened to look over the slider that you are interested in. It's not a bad little saw. The sliding table was very smooth and tight throughout the range of motion. It looks fully adjustable and serviceable if ever needed. I'd say the weakest part was the rail/rip fence system, but for hobby use, probably just fine. Perhaps it could be retrofitted with something heavier duty in the future if it really bothered you. It's hardly fair to compare it to a saw that costs $2000 more.

[jonathan eagle]

Hi Mark

1.) Poly V belts last longer, slip less, has a wider contact area, have no joint that might cause vibration ..... it's a better belt system.
2.) Yes you can only use the 10" blade with the scorer but when I need the 12" I have the option available to me on the Hammer.
3.) Simply put you have blades available in the US for both machines. The pins are for your own protection and for extra safety due to the heavy breaking feature of the electronic breaking on the Hammer blade.
4.) The European dado sets are something to be experienced.
5.) I do not know enough about shipping but everything has a reason.

I guess I am on a different page then. I would rather deal factory direct with a company producing their own machines, it's worth the extra money to me. I have also owned many machines over the years and for me the question has never really been about how long they run, in this league they all run for many, many years. It has been the fit and finish, the details make the difference. A European manufactured machine is simply produced to a better tolerance, has more options and accessories allowing you to grow with the machine.

JP
JP
If they are built to such better tolerances, then why was a shipment full of Hammer bandsaws shipped over here, that they couldn't even ship to their customers?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the local Hammer guys, told me they wouldn't ship the defective machines to any of their customers. But having to catch defective machines here doesn't sound ideal to me. I'm still expecting my machine. Just hope those famous better tolerances reach me!
Jonathan
Jonathan

[Ronald Blue]

I have also looked at and admired the slider saws at the Springfield Grizzly and thought they were smooth and solid. I can't speak with knowledge of the Hammer but I can speak of European machines and their support. Specifically two different Austrian manufacture machines. the experience has been similar on both. All machines regardless of who makes them or what they cost have occasional issues. Interestingly it was stated that even an old Hammer would be supported because the drawings will be pulled and the parts made. That is the same experience I have had on new machines. If they don't have the part in stock then be prepared for a long wait. I am talking of machines in the $1-$4 million range each. Most of these machines work well when they work. But we have been forced to improvise many times while we waited weeks or even months for repair parts. This can happen with any machine that has it's roots overseas whether it's for woodworking or otherwise. There are few things you can buy these days that are 100% American made with no parts from outside the borders. The ones that call the USA home though in my experience typically do a better job with being there for us. Not always perfect but consistently better. Just my two cents worth. Enjoy your Grizzly slider when it arrives. I noticed someone else was waiting two months for a Hammer. I expect they will have their estimated date of shipment bumped back as well.

[Mark Engel]

Just got word that my G0623X has left the building. The Missouri warehouse building that is. 3-5 days until it gets here.

[glenn bradley]

Tick . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Tock . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Tick . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[Mark Engel]

Got the tracking info. The truck is scheduled to arrive in Raleigh/Durham on Monday the 18th.

[Neil Brooks]

Longest four days of your life ;)

Congrats !!

Pics and review, on arrival/setup/use, huh ?

I'm about 95% of the way toward pulling the trigger on my first cabinet saw. The process is giving me gray hair. If I wind up with that kind of backorder time, that gray hair should fall right out :)

[Mark Engel]

Yes, I am getting anxious. I have been working without a table saw for a month.

Going to try to document the process from delivery through the first cuts.

[Jeff Monson]

Yes, I am getting anxious. I have been working without a table saw for a month.

Going to try to document the process from delivery through the first cuts.

Looking forward to a writeup Mark, its gonna be a long weekend for you.

[Rod Sheridan]

Mark, congrats on the new machine purchase, it would be interesting to read your experiences with the new machine.

Did you order any options or accessories for it?

Regards, Rod.

[Paul Canaris]

Not so long to wait; most of the Euro Sliders have even longer lead times.

[Mark Engel]

Mark, congrats on the new machine purchase, it would be interesting to read your experiences with the new machine.

Did you order any options or accessories for it?

Regards, Rod.

Thanks.

No accessories ordered yet. As a matter of fact, I will probably have a few accessories left from my cabinet saw that will no longer be needed. An Incra miter gauge, Delta tenoning jig, etc.

[Mark Engel]

Not so long to wait; most of the Euro Sliders have even longer lead times.

Oh yeah. Some of the Euro sliders won't be available until October or November.

Although I did see an Altendorf F45 for sale on Northern NJ CL for $3,000. Such a deal.

[Mark Engel]

Got the call from UPS. Delivery is scheduled for Tuesday the 19th between 2 & 5 pm.

[Rod Sheridan]

Mark, now the anticipation begins...................Rod

[Mark Engel]

Mark, now the anticipation begins...................Rod

Believe me, Rod, the anticipation started a while ago. :)