Did i just kill my delta table saw motor???

[Tim Morton]

This will teach me to clean my saw....:confused::confused::confused:

I decided to clean my perfectly functioning table saw and now its dead.

Its a contractor saw with a 62-044 1.5hp motor, and i just had some electrical work done in the house, so i considered switching it over to 220 since i now have a 220v outlet right near the saw.

I just wiped off all the sawdust and opened the two capacitor covers to check the sawdust..and i blew those out and reassembled.

Plugged it in, and it started up fine but only ran for about 15 seconds and i do not think it came to full power...then it shut down, like it blew a fuse or something.

Maybe a thermal shut down?? it made no strange noises and no smells....i took the covers back off of the capacitors to see if i blew something up, and all looks normal...not hot, and no smells.

I let it rest for an hour or so and tried it in a different outlet...nothing.

I then took my compressor and really blew everything out good....and still nothing.

The wires that connect to the capacitors seem to be soldered on slide-ons...and they are still attached. Are the other ends that are burried inside the motor connected the same way? Or could one of the wires come loose? That will be the next thign i try if it doesn't fire back up tonight...

but if anyone has any other ideas? I have the covers off now...and i have not tested the ohms across the terminals, because i don't know if they should be 0 when on or off? not an electrician :o

[Rick Potter]

Reset button??

Rick Potter
Not an electrician either.

[Tim Morton]

Reset button??

Rick Potter
Not an electrician either.

there is one...a large red button on the side...it does not appear to have tripped...but yes i have pushed it...hard.

[Neil Brooks]

Circuit breaker on the HOUSE (vs. the motor) ?

Still wouldn't answer WHY, but ... one thing at a time ;)

[Tim Morton]

Circuit breaker on the HOUSE (vs. the motor) ?

Still wouldn't answer WHY, but ... one thing at a time ;)

i checked the CB at the house...and even plugged it into a different circuit...same result...nada.

I just put an ohm meter accross both caps...and at 2k i am getting a reading of 002...and at 200 i am getting a reading of 2.3

and this is identical reading on both capacitors. i am going to change the batteries on this ohm meter and recheck.

[Jerome Hanby]

I'm guessing those are pretty large caps. If you have an actual meter (with a swinging hand) like a Simpson, you can set it on x1 or maybe x10 but the leads on the cap and it should swing toward 0 ohms,then drop away. Make sure you short the caps before you start.

[Tim Morton]

I'm guessing those are pretty large caps. If you have an actual meter (with a swinging hand) like a Simpson, you can set it on x1 or maybe x10 but the leads on the cap and it should swing toward 0 ohms,then drop away. Make sure you short the caps before you start.

i did short them...and i just have a cheap dmm....it jumps to about 2 before settling down to 0 on 2ok....but it does not reach zero on a lower setting....might be a useless test. My electrician will be coming back for a follow up and i can verify this with him.

i just think its something stupid...if it went into "protect" mode could it take hours to revert?

[Harry Niemann]

You say you switched to 220 volts. Did you switch the motor internal wiring to 220? If not you may have damaged the motor.

[Tim Morton]

You say you switched to 220 volts. Did you switch the motor internal wiring to 220? If not you may have damaged the motor.

No..i was getting ready to switch to 220...i was cleaning the saw in preparation for cleaning my whole shop.

I have done nothing to the saw electrically...

[ray hampton]

i did short them...and i just have a cheap dmm....it jumps to about 2 before settling down to 0 on 2ok....but it does not reach zero on a lower setting....might be a useless test. My electrician will be coming back for a follow up and i can verify this with him.

i just think its something stupid...if it went into "protect" mode could it take hours to revert?
the ohm meter will change when set on a higher number versus a lower number

[Bruce Volden]

Well it seems like you have it on the run---you mentioned you blew things out really well---could sawdust have gotten into the switch??? Give it a couple of raps and see what happens. Really seems odd you get NO response, no humm, lights flickering....

Bruce

[Bruce Wrenn]

Have you checked the voltage at the leads from the switch to motor? When it's not humming, that usually means no power. I assume that you unplugged the saw, so check continuity between plug and switch first. Next check across switch.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Sounds like you got some dust in the centrifugal switch.

[Tim Morton]

Sounds like you got some dust in the centrifugal switch.

where would i find this ? on the motor?

[Rick Fisher]

Would it have a mag starter with a reset ?

[Tim Morton]

Would it have a mag starter with a reset ?

??? Not sure i understand? It does not have a mag switch for on/off if that's what you are asking?

[Myk Rian]

where would i find this ? on the motor?

Inside the motor.

[Tim Morton]

Inside the motor.

i found a video online..i will take that apart this weekend...i blew it out over on that side really well, and banged on the casing with a wrench.

The pulley spins really free...it just feels like it is not getting any power at all...i will need to check that too.

the power switch has a computer style plug between it and the motor...so i should be able do two things...try and power something up ahead of the motor like a computer. And i might be able to plug a computer cable straigh into the motor, bypassing the on/off switch...i will try those now during the intemision...

go bruins!!

[Tim Morton]

power direct to the motor does nothing either....:(:(

[Myk Rian]

so i should be able do two things...try and power something up ahead of the motor like a computer.
Just plug a lamp into it. A lot easier than lugging a computer over to it.

[david brum]

Sounds like you got some dust in the centrifugal switch.

I vote with Dan. The switch (which doesn't look like what you'd expect a switch to look like) is under the fan housing on the motor, opposite the motor pulley. You might try blowing compressed air around the fan vents before disassembling anything. You might get lucky.

[John Aperahama]

Sounds like you got some dust in the centrifugal switch.

The centrifugal switch will require a tear down of the motor. It is a switch located at the rear end of the motor. I will typically look like this
http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14026/img/14026_237_1.jpg The right hand pic not the left.

[Charles Lent]

You say that you now get nothing. That, to me, means that no power is reaching the motor. A bad centrifugal switch will cause starting problems, but the motor will hum and then trip a circuit breaker, either the one in your electric panel or the one behind the red button on the motor. Can you plug a light into the cord connector that the motor plugs into and test to see if power gets that far when you turn the saw on? If the light goes on, there is a problem with the motor. If it does not go on there is a problem with your power source or the wiring leading up to the connector that the lamp is plugged into. Until you are sure that power is reaching the motor there is no reason to take the motor apart, but re-check the capacitor to be certain that the wires are still hooked to them and they are not shorting to the covers or motor frame. It's very easy to pinch a wire under the cover edge when you are replacing them.

Charley

[Jerome Hanby]

I've never seen any results I could be confident of with a digital meter testing caps. Regardless, it's not an exhaustive test, just enough to let you know it's still behaving like a functioning cap. Of course with big caps (which are usually electrolytic) , once they break down they tend to pop and spray oil everywhere.

[Tim Morton]

You say that you now get nothing. That, to me, means that no power is reaching the motor. A bad centrifugal switch will cause starting problems, but the motor will hum and then trip a circuit breaker, either the one in your electric panel or the one behind the red button on the motor. Can you plug a light into the cord connector that the motor plugs into and test to see if power gets that far when you turn the saw on? If the light goes on, there is a problem with the motor. If it does not go on there is a problem with your power source or the wiring leading up to the connector that the lamp is plugged into. Until you are sure that power is reaching the motor there is no reason to take the motor apart, but re-check the capacitor to be certain that the wires are still hooked to them and they are not shorting to the covers or motor frame. It's very easy to pinch a wire under the cover edge when you are replacing them.

Charley

thanks Charlie...yes i unplugged the motor cord between the motor and the on/off switch. I then took a computer cord and plugged that into the wall, and into the motor....and got nothing. And you are right it feels to me that there is a disconnect someplace. I was asking earlier to know where the wires went that come off the capacitors and go into the motor....it makes the most since that one of those 4 wires is not connected any longer. Or actually one of those 2 wires since it feels as if the two capacitors are wired in series?

[Tim Morton]

Ok...i am an IDIOT.....and i think i said last night that i bet it was something stupid....well it was.

And if i left this detail out i apolgize, but i think i said that the table saw was plugged into a surge protector/power strip and then into a GFI outlet. Its the same surge protector i thought i have been using for years.

Long story short...even though the surge protector is showing a red light when switched on, and when i plugged in a lamp to this surge protectors it gave power...i decided to plug another working tool into the surge protector....

anyone want to buy used surge protector?

Motor is fine...surge protector is not. Glad it had a happy ending...and glad the bruins won last night...thanks for all the help guys...and sorry for being an idiot *grrrrrrrrrrr*

and before you ask...the surgeprotector/power strip was because my saw did not reach an outlet....and from time to time i used it when i was using a jog saw and router and sander at the same time as i was using the table saw.

Now that the electrican came and wired me up finally, the surge protector is in the trash.

[ray hampton]

glad that you are back in the work
is there a limit on what can be plug into a GFI [ampere -wise

[george wilson]

Isn't it GREAT when you discover that you don't need a new motor? Happens to many of us.

I am a very poor electrician,though I can do simple wiring. I bought a German Deckel milling machine that would not run. It had a special 3 phase,2 speed motor on it that would have been MUCHO expensive to replace. Hired a friend who is quite an electrical engineer,and scientific instrument maker to see what was wrong. This mill has a LARGE and mega complex control box full of big,expensive,German relays,etc. He worked on it for over an hour. I noticed there were two off-on relay switches at the top with big red and green buttons. I asked him to push the buttons. He said they had nothing to do with the circuit diagram he was using. I asked him to humor me. The mill started right up!

[Tom Cornish]

glad that you are back in the work
is there a limit on what can be plug into a GFI [ampere -wise

GFCI breakers are both overcurrent protection devices and differential current sensors. They make sure that all the current that goes out the hot wire comes back in the neutral wire. If any is missing (more than 5ma), the circuit is broken. The overcurrent protection works similarly to other breaker types - the number on the breaker is the max current, give or take manufacturing tolerances (generally 80% of a breaker's value is considered the max steady-state load).

A GFI outlet either in the wall or in a portable power strip usually doesn't have overcurrent protection - that's accomplished with either the panel breaker or some other circuit breaker in the device - a button breaker, etc. The current delivery ability therefore depends on the breaker's rating and not the GFI device in these cases.

Said another way - the ground-fault protection function doesn't necessarily have a maximum current - there are GFCI devices rated in the hundreds of amps, but there is always some device that provides overcurrent protection - either as a separate breaker, or as a combined function of the GFCI device which will determine the circuit's capability.

[Tim Morton]

Isn't it GREAT when you discover that you don't need a new motor? Happens to many of us.

I am a very poor electrician,though I can do simple wiring. I bought a German Deckel milling machine that would not run. It had a special 3 phase,2 speed motor on it that would have been MUCHO expensive to replace. Hired a friend who is quite an electrical engineer,and scientific instrument maker to see what was wrong. This mill has a LARGE and mega complex control box full of big,expensive,German relays,etc. He worked on it for over an hour. I noticed there were two off-on relay switches at the top with big red and green buttons. I asked him to push the buttons. He said they had nothing to do with the circuit diagram he was using. I asked him to humor me. The mill started right up!

it is indeed GREAT!! I have been saving for some new speakers and that would have been a major bummer. I have no problems taking the "ego" hit if i can save $400. I did break the power switch trying to pull the wire off a terminal in an attempt to change the cord, but that was only $20.

Now i just have to deciphor the front panel to be able to switch the wires around to set it up for 220...how hard can that be?:rolleyes:

[Charles Lent]

Whenever you have an electrical problem like this it's best to try the "divide and concur" method. By dividing the unknown part of the problem in half and then seeing which half still has the problem you can then divide that half and then do it again and again until there is only one small area or part left, which is where the problem exists, unless you have overlooked something along the way. I'm glad you found that it was something simple. Those power strips are not rated to carry the load of your table saw. You are lucky that it didn't start a fire. Either plug it directly into a wall outlet or use a heavy duty extension cord rated for 20 amps and avoid using power strips with large power tools.

Charley

[Tim Morton]

Whenever you have an electrical problem like this it's best to try the "divide and concur" method. By dividing the unknown part of the problem in half and then seeing which half still has the problem you can then divide that half and then do it again and again until there is only one small area or part left, which is where the problem exists, unless you have overlooked something along the way. I'm glad you found that it was something simple. Those power strips are not rated to carry the load of your table saw. You are lucky that it didn't start a fire. Either plug it directly into a wall outlet or use a heavy duty extension cord rated for 20 amps and avoid using power strips with large power tools.

Charley

yup it was a stupid mistake....i had 2 12/3 extension cords on the counter...i just reached for the power strip without thinking. And i never suspected it because the light never went off, and it never tripped. Its only a 12 amp motor and i assumed the strip was able to handle that. It was not a cheap strip.

[Charles Lent]

The peak starting current of your motor can easily reach 200-250% of it's full load rating as it's an inductive load.

Charley

[Lee Schierer]

The centrifugal switch will require a tear down of the motor. It is a switch located at the rear end of the motor. I will typically look like this
http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14026/img/14026_237_1.jpg The right hand pic not the left.

I vote for dust in the centrifugal switch. Usually you can remove the motor end cap opposite the pulley and see the switch. Follow the wire leads to look at the contacts in the switch. Most likely they have dust in them. While you have the motor open, check for continuity starting at the plug all the way to the centrifugal switch.

My second choice would be the main on/off switch has gone bad possibly also from dust. You may or may not be able to clean it. Again teh continuity testing should tell you where the problem is.

[Leo Graywacz]

Good to hear the solution to your problem was only frustrating but easily fixed. Whenever you have a problem like that start at the outlet and head towards the affected component to make sure power is getting where it needs to be. This is electrical repair 101. Glad its over and you can once again work with your TS.

[Chuck Gallup]

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00RCoTqfYGsbWy/Centrifugal-Switch-SC-3-.jpg

Basic Trouble Shooting:

Go to the last thing that was done!

Blowing with air.

Chances are you can solve this problem with another blast!

[John M Wilson]

I'm betting it's the power strip!:D

[Myk Rian]

I vote for dust in the centrifugal switch.

I'm betting it's the power strip!:D


Basic Trouble Shooting:

Go to the last thing that was done!

Blowing with air.

Chances are you can solve this problem with another blast!
He already has it fixed.

[Tim Morton]

I'm betting it's the power strip!:D

LOL...you might just win that bet!!

i finished switching the motor over to 220 and then after about an hour i was able to wire up the MLSC power switch i bought (crappy instructions BTW)..but i plugged it all in ( no power strip) and it fired up and is running perfect. Now i just need to find a way to mount the switch to the saw and then secure the cord out of the way. But first a nap.....

[ray hampton]

cable ties

[Tim Morton]

cable ties

i used some wire clamps as i wanted to run it overhead and out of the way. Now on to dust collection..