Aniline dye on a curly maple-ratio?

[Chris Atzinger]

Hi,

I have a smallish book stand made with curly maple. I would like to darken the wood a bit (dark honey/amber-ish) and pop the grain as much as I can. I am testing out the dye on some scraps to get an idea of what I am doing (never used dye before).

I took a small mason jar with 6oz of DNA, and put 3 good size drops of Transtint aniline dye (Golden Brown) in. In the jar, it is super dark, but when I wipe it liberally on the wood, it's pretty blah.

Am I missing something? Do i Just need to add more color? do I sand back and re-apply to build on the color?

Any help is appreciated!

Thanks!
Chris

[Chad Bender]

I haven't done this on maple, but did just complete a project using Transtint on some pretty wild cherry (see below). I suggest the following:

First, my test boards with a very weak dye dilution ended up as you describe - essentially no change. Try a slightly stronger dilution. If you mix up a half-pint mason jar of the full dilution, then it's very simple to draw off smaller samples and try different dilutions in a repeatable manner.

Second, the transtint by itself seems to mute the wood contrast. You only see the true contrast once you get a finish on. That means, you'll need to work your test boards through the entire finish process (or most of the way) in order to evaluate what the dye is doing.

Thirdly, no sanding! Sanding the raw dyed wood will very quickly remove the dye. Once you've got some topcoat finish on, you can sand that gently to knock down the grain (even DNA will raise it somewhat) and any nibs.

Here is what I managed on the cherry with a combination of Transtint Medium Brown and Red Brown, overcoated with waterlox.

198093

[Chris Atzinger]

Hi Chad,

When you say "half-pint mason jar of the full dilution" do you mean all 2oz of the transtint dye with half-pint EtOH/water?

Thanks!
Chris

[Chad Bender]

Hi Chad,

When you say "half-pint mason jar of the full dilution" do you mean all 2oz of the transtint dye with half-pint EtOH/water?

Thanks!
Chris

No. The bottle has a recommended dilution to use as a starting point. I don't have any in front of me, but I think it's something like 1 oz / quart. I used that as a start, and based all of my futher dilutions off of it.

[Chris Atzinger]

Gotcha. That was a dumb question, now that I think about it!

Thanks!
Chris

[Kent A Bathurst]

Couple of "yeah, but" comments.......


.....the transtint by itself seems to mute the wood contrast. You only see the true contrast once you get a finish on.

You also get a pretty darn good idea if you let the dye dry, and then swipe it with mineral spirits. That doesn't add the amber tint of most final coat products, but still - heckuva lot faster for evaluating dye concentration than a multi-coat schedule. Or, a quick pad-on coat of clear-as-you-can-get shellac in sealer concentration [1# +/- cut] - that stuff dries almost faster than you can apply it.


......no sanding! Sanding the raw dyed wood will very quickly remove the dye.

I can't speak to cherry or curly maple - I've never had the heart to color those - but I'm not that contrary with QSWO. It turns out that, by a light sanding with a fine grit [my choice is the 3M gold 600g] I maintain the background color while removing some of the color from the ray flecks - improves the contrast, and makes them really "pop".

Also - FWIW - I have recently converted from a long-time waterborne transtint user to a fan of waterborne transfast powder. Much less "lift" in the application of subsequent stuff.

[Chris Atzinger]

Regarding the sanding comment, I know a lot of luthiers dye quilted maple with black, and then sand it back so that it darkens the figured grain, and then apply a second color dye, before applying the clear finish.

Thanks!
Chris

[David Giles]

Agree with Chad on his mixing/dilution comments. My typical CM finishing schedule follows the FWW article. Sand to about 120 grit to remove machine marks. Wipe on a 1/10 concentration of dark dye, such as dark brown. Sand back with 120 and 150 grit. This removes much of the dye, but highlights the curls. For a darker, warmer finish, dye full strength with preferred color. For a lighter finish, I skip this step. Flood with BLO and finish with shellac or lacquer.

[Tony Joyce]

198111

This was done with a weak water based aniline dye and sanded back.

[Scott Holmes]

When I use TransTint Dye in either water or denatured alcohol (DNA) I usually count drops that I put in one oz. of liquid. That makes it very easy to duplicate the color for larger quantities once you hav eth ecolor right.

I start with 2-4 drops depending on color and wood in use.

When sanding back a dyed, curly or flamed wood I usually use 320 grit with a sanding block; it doesn't take much work. Spraying a shellac sealer is much safer than trying to brush or wipe the shellac seal coat when using TransTint dyes; DNA is the reason, it will move the TransTint dye.

[Harvey Pascoe]

Spraying a shellac sealer is much safer than trying to brush or wipe the shellac seal coat when using TransTint dyes; DNA is the reason, it will move the TransTint dye.

That's why I changed to dye in lacquer thinner. Makes no sense to use a dye solution in the same solvent as the finish, but I 'spose spraying solves the problem but leaves you with another spray gun to clean.

[Kent A Bathurst]

198111

This was done with a weak water based aniline dye and sanded back.

Tony - looks nice. Care to share the dye/coloThanks

Kent

[Steve Schoene]

You can't tell whether you have the mix you want until it is has been covered by a top coat. You can do a fairly descent job of simulating the topcoat by wetting down the dyed surface with mineral spirits. If you are mixing the TransTint with alcohol I assume this means you intend to spray the dye. If you plan to wipe on the dye you would be much better off using distilled water in which to mix the dye. This gives you much more working time to get the dye applied. If dye dries in a place and wet dye is wiped over it the overlap will show.

Dye just used by itself doesn't do a very good job of enhancing the figure of the maple. But, as part of a process it can really work wonders. The process? Dye the surface with a dilute solution of a dark brown color. Then sand the surface, using a sanding block. You will sand off the color from dense portions where the dye penetrates only shallowly, leaving dye in porous areas where the dye penetrates deeply. Then you can re-dye with a lighter shade--such as the honey amber to get the overall color right. This will leave the grain significantly enhanced.

What is you planned top coat. Many finishes if wiped or brushed on will lift TransTint dye. The best preventative is to SPRAY a light sealing coat of dewaxed shellac. The rattle-can aerosol from Zinsser works well for this. Personally I prefer using a water soluble powdered dye such as TransFast or the watersoluble powdered dyes from Lockwood. You get very little lifting as long as you aren't using a waterborne finish.