Cabinet scrapers - do you use one?

[Prashun Patel]

I had an epiphany last night with my cabinet (vis-a-vis card) scraper. When I finally figured out the proper bevel and hook, it took shavings with such ease, so little tearout, I was amazed.

A cabinet scraper is a relatively economical tool, is so easy to use, and gets such good results on tear-outy woods.

I'm curious why I don't hear much about them? Do you use one?

[Chris Fournier]

Don't hear much about them? Really? There's an article in one woodworking magazine or another just about bi-monthly that reveals the secrets to sharpening the card scraper so that you can unleash it's powers in your shop...

I would agree with you and go one step further, the card scraper is perhaps the most economical tool in our craft. A pleasure to use but if you dwell too long on an area without care you will make a mess with it. You typically find this out when you're putting on the finish.

[Jim Matthews]

They're deceptive - it looks so easy, but sharpening them is tricky.
I think what's overlooked is the required jointing prior to drawing a burr.

I like Sandvik/Bahco scrapers and using them (work) hardens the edge.
The following video illustrated the step I missed in *ahem* two classes I attended.

What species were you scraping when you had your epiphany?

William Ng method (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz6EpQu2HRo)

[john brenton]

I'm with Chris...I always see card scrapers mentioned here and I'm pretty sure everyone uses them. I used to have the problem of putting too much pressure on as I had read that more than three swipes with the burnisher is a rookie move. Now that I have since had tons of luck with the scraper and use it on just about every project.

[David Weaver]

If we're talkng about #'s 80 stanley type tools, mine went dormant when I built my first 55 degree infill plane.

There is an orders of magnitude difference in cost issue there, but the orders of magnitude aren't too high if you build your own.

The other thing that killed the use of my #80 was the purchase of the LN small scraping plane, which has a harder blade and lets you work longer between burnishing or honing because of the adjusability of the angle of cut.

But the 80s are a useful tool, and I don't know of anything that will do just as much for as cheap (I ran across several for $20 a few years ago - if they're more than that right now because of a PWW article, just wait a while).

[Prashun Patel]

I'm talking about what David's talking about: a CABINET scraper. I've used card scrapers for a couple years now, and they're great too.

The cabinet scraper (like the Stanley #80 - or in my case Winchester #79) has a sole and screws to maintain the camber, and handles. These reduce fatigue, increase leverage, and reduce scalloping.

I've been wrestling with a slab of curly cherry. I've flattened it well by planing across grain, but even my bevel up planes with high angles had a hard time with tear out. I'm getting better at plane blade sharpening, but when I put blade to wood, it's still a little bit of a wildcard whether it'll tear or not.

The scraper, however, does not suffer this problem.

For me the secret to getting it working properly was flattening the blade, and beveling it to 45 degrees, and not hooking the burr so aggressively. I had previously been putting too steep a hook with dusty results. Unlike plane blades, the thin scraper blade grinds easy on my Worksharp, and fits into my MKII honing jig, so getting a polished bevel is quick and easy for me.

Anyway, this is the best $20 I've spent in the past year.

[Chris Fournier]

Yes you did write cabinet but I read card! The Stanley #80 and it's imitators are very useful and also economical. I have found that the best way to joint these is to use a mill file held in a vise. Quick, quiet and effective.

Heavy hooks are great for glue scraping but finer hooks are were it's at on wood.

The only cabinet scraper that I don't really get along with is the large LN scraper plane, I find that it's a fight every time.

[John Coloccia]

Not to derail, but I thought that cabinet and card scrapers where the same thing, and those other things where either called scraper planes or scraper holders. I don't mean to be persnickety, but I want to have my terminology right when I'm reading other people's posts. Do most people use them interchangeable, or as they're used here....

You know what? I'm going to poll it!

[David Weaver]

Google cabinet scraper and they seem to be interchangable. I had always assumed a cabinet scraper was a tool that held a scraper blade in fixed position, but that appears to not be the case.

[Prashun Patel]

Semantics aside, my point is this: That handle-thingy-with-a-sole-to-hold-the blade is really wonderful. It opens the world of scraping up to a larger surface area for me. Card scrapers take a good amount of effort to use, and don't really flatten; they just smooth. The "cabinet" scraper/holder takes very little effort to push, and can flatten a surface (scallops notwithstanding)

In fact, when flattening larger boards with planes, I (a relative newbie to planes) have a tough time pinpointing high and low spots. So, I find myself fiddling with depth of cut too much and then either making too many passes that take no cut or take too deep a cut. The cabinet scraper finds smaller pockets like this very easily, which helped me focus my plane work.

Anyway, John's poll confirms what I believed: this tool is not widely understood; people give short shrift to scraping, thinking all burnished hunks of steel are created equal.

One last thing: I expected the depth setting to be an issue as it can be with a spokeshave that doesn't have microadjusters. However, I got great results by setting the sole on a flat bench, and then setting the scraper flush to the sole. Once the cambering screw is tightened, it pushes the lip out the correct amount. As the burr wears, you just tighten it a little more. That only works once or twice b4 you have to roll a new doobie - er burr.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I've used a #80 for years and have never bothered to put a hook on the blade. I have never found it necessary and I regularly work with tiger striped maple. If you are careful in all of the preparation steps up to the burnishing of the hook you will probalby never need the hook which eliminates the issues of too light, uneven, or agressive a hook and the shortness or length of time it lasts. Without the hook a slight stoning or honing will renew the edge in literally seconds.

[John Coloccia]

I've used a #80 for years and have never bothered to put a hook on the blade. I have never found it necessary and I regularly work with tiger striped maple. If you are careful in all of the preparation steps up to the burnishing of the hook you will probalby never need the hook which eliminates the issues of too light, uneven, or agressive a hook and the shortness or length of time it lasts. Without the hook a slight stoning or honing will renew the edge in literally seconds.

I often sharpen my card scrapers without a hook also, or just a minimal hook. I clean up the edge with a file to remove the old burr, joint it and feel it. If I can feel a little burr, I call it good and use it. I end up with a more upright angle which I actually prefer...I can see what I'm doing instead of covering it up with the scraper. Anyhow, I don't do that all the time, but I think it works especially well for softwoods, which is what my mentor taught me and I think he's right. You do have the tendency to dig in when doing it like this, but I counteract it by resting my palms on the work...it's a lot more stable. I also tend to take a shearing cut now that I was shown that technique....again, more danger of digging in but the surface seem to respond better on softwoods.

[Jim Matthews]

My bad, I shouldn't chime in prior to my second cup of coffee.

What does this do for you that a card does not?
(I own one, but have yet to use it.)

[Dave Anderson NH]

To answer your question Jim (Mathews) it prevents you from getting tired fingers and hot sore thumbs. Admittedly though I only use my #80 cabinet scraper if I have a large surface to clean up. Most of the time a hand held card scrpaer works just fine.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Dave, Interestingly I have done the same for thick scraper blades, i.e. create a really sharp corner and no burr, nice to hear it's not just me. I have found this to be more convenient since sharpening is a piece of cake. But seeing William Ng doing his thing that doesn't seem like too much work either. I still draw a burr on the thinner scrapers though, but I guess I will try and use them squared up as well to see how it goes.

[Andrew Gibson]

I really need to give mine another go. I never gave it much use as the scraper that came with it was in pretty bad shape... maybe a good scraper from LN is in order.
I have been known to tape my thumbs and then put on Mechanics gloves to prevent blisters when scraping table tops or other large surfaces.

I have found that the mechanics gloves are nice for woodworking as they seem to help keep the wood cleaner... I always sweat and get my workpieces dirty. the gloves help a lot and don't hinder my grip to much.

[Larry Williams]

They're deceptive - it looks so easy, but sharpening them is tricky.
I think what's overlooked is the required jointing prior to drawing a burr.

I like Sandvik/Bahco scrapers and using them (work) hardens the edge.
The following video illustrated the step I missed in *ahem* two classes I attended.


William Ng method (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz6EpQu2HRo)

Usually "sharpening" videos leave me wanting to slam my forehead into my desk. I usually avoid them these days. I wasn't familiar with William Ng so I went to watch this. It's good!!! What a pleasant surprise, my congratulations to Mark for getting it up.

[Jonas Baker]

This is a great discussion, and I could learn a lot by trying out some different techniques for burnishing a hook, and different angles vs not burnishing a hook at all. The #80 seems to work well in almost setting though, probably due to the thumb screw which bends the blade.

I know a lot of poeple use a file to creat a burr on card scrapers, but can you do this on the #80 blade, which has bevel on it? If so, do you just use a file on the sharp edge of the #80 scraper blade, or do you use the file on along the entire beveled edge of the blade? One other question, is it important to have a very flat file when doing this? I ask this, because I don't think I have ever been able to find a file that was actually completely flat, and I wonder if this defeats the purpose of trying to joint a scraper?

Thank you,

Jonas

[Prashun Patel]

Personally, using a file to raise the burr seems suboptimal to me since it will scratch the edge and leave a rough surface. In fact, wouldn't it flatten the just-sharpened edge? I have a cheap carbide burnisher, but have also used screwdrivers and drill bit shafts to roll burrs on scrapers. The cabinet scraper has worked well for me when the hook is on the flat side of the blade and the blade is inserted 'bevel-to-the-back' into the holder.

I did find with card scrapers that once I knew what a burr felt like, and how to flex the card, there was a lot of flexibility on how to prepare the edge. I suppose now that I know how the cabinet scraper likes to work, there are many options for bevels and burrs as well.

In fact, you might check out the instructions on the Lee Valley website for their cabinet scraper. The manual showed me how to prepare my own blade.

[jason thigpen]

i have an early Stanley #80 that i bought off of the bay a few months back for $10 shipped. i just upgraded it with the thicker hock blade. this thing is amazing! it will peel off full width shavings that consistently measure .001". i use a lot of highly flecked QSWO and the cabinet scraper makes the grain pop more than anything else i have tried. the finish is smooth as glass. i do put the burr on mine. i use the techniques described in a PWW article from around a year ago. they had a whole writeup on scraper planes. i'm looking for a stanley 112 now. i like the idea of infinite adjustability of the blade angle.

[Mark Baldwin III]

I have an old #80 and some card scrapers. Learning to use them was a revelation. My #80 has the original blade, and it does not like the hook at all. Another member here suggested going without the hook and it improved the performance. I found, though, that the original blade does not hold onto its edge for very long. I'd like to upgrade to a Hock at some point.

[Mike Holbrook]

Semantics aside, my point is this: That handle-thingy-with-a-sole-to-hold-the blade is really wonderful. It opens the world of scraping up to a larger surface area for me. Card scrapers take a good amount of effort to use, and don't really flatten; they just smooth. The "cabinet" scraper/holder takes very little effort to push, and can flatten a surface (scallops notwithstanding)

In fact, when flattening larger boards with planes, I (a relative newbie to planes) have a tough time pinpointing high and low spots. So, I find myself fiddling with depth of cut too much and then either making too many passes that take no cut or take too deep a cut. The cabinet scraper finds smaller pockets like this very easily, which helped me focus my plane work.

Anyway, John's poll confirms what I believed: this tool is not widely understood; people give short shrift to scraping, thinking all burnished hunks of steel are created equal.

One last thing: I expected the depth setting to be an issue as it can be with a spokeshave that doesn't have microadjusters. However, I got great results by setting the sole on a flat bench, and then setting the scraper flush to the sole. Once the cambering screw is tightened, it pushes the lip out the correct amount. As the burr wears, you just tighten it a little more. That only works once or twice b4 you have to roll a new doobie - er burr.

I have been searching for info on scrapers and thought this thread was close to the issues I am struggling with so rather than starting over I thought I would add to this thread.

I am making wooden plane kits, the last of SteveKnights plane kits, sniff, sniff. The planes are Purple Heart, very tough stuff. I am almost done with the first of 4 kits. My Veritas scraper blades turned out to be the best thing I have for working these plane surfaces. Bending a card and removing glue etc. does not flatten the surfaces though. I have the Veritas card holder but it is designed to bend the card and therefore not good for flattening. I was looking around at "cabinet scrapers" and Scraper planes as tools that might help me remove glue & rough spots but also help with flattening. I also have tired fingers after working just part of one plane with the cards.

I realize I may need to glue sand paper to the table saw top or my flattening stone to flatten surfaces but I am wondering if a cabinet scraper might help or replace this step? Specifically I was studying on the Veritas Cabinet Scraper that I believe is an improvement on the old Stanley #80 Cabinet Scraper. Veritas' Scraper Plane looks interesting but I read comments on these forms that suggested some users were disappointed with results. Also like some of the other posters here I kinda like using the cards with square edges and no burnishing. Can this tool substitute for belt sanding or sand paper flattening?