My new project is about to start......

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The wife wants a new entertainment center and loves red oak. This is the same woman who signs the checks that pays for the tools I buy. My advice after being married to her for over 42 years is give the lady what she wants. When Sharon's happy, I can be happy!:rolleyes:

Now the "do-it-digital" crowd will be coming out of the walls to throw stones at me but I'm hard headed and I will survive. I am using paper, pencil and erasers. I am very nearly done with the drawings to the point that I believe I can start construction Monday. Sorry guys....one of the jobs I had out of HS was working as a draftsman in a furniture factory.

I was able to purchase A-2 red oak plywood locally. We had guests staying with us for the last 10 days and I had a choice, play with my 2 great-granddaughters ages 5 years and 3 months or drive to Moscow, Idaho to buy the red oak hardwood for the face frame, paneled doors, etc. Sorry...I played with the great-granddaugters and tried to stay out of the way of the other family members while the granddaughter, her 2 daughters, her beau and others visited.

The entertainment center will be over 73" long at the longest point, 30 inches high and 24 inches deep. It will have a 14"w x 24"h raised panel door at each end hiding 3 20" deep drawers. The two middle doors will be faux-divided glass doors 19"w x 24"h with 2 20" deep drawers behind each door for equipment. All drawers are 20" deep with full extention slides purchased from woodworker's hardware.

The doors will use 120º Blum Euro hinges I purchased from Rockler. I also purchased Rocklers plastic set up jig for the drill press and drill press table to drill the cup holes. I purchased the jig for drill the holes in the face frame too. Anytime I can purchase a factory made jig for approximately $8, it's hard for me to ignore it. This will be my first attempt at using Euro or hidden hinges. For $8 I can rely on Rockler's jig to get it right.

For the first time I purchased router bits from MLCS. Good service and now I'll try out their bits. I purchased their Katana line of bits......1 Ogee raised panel bit and 1 2 bit ogee cove set for joining the rails and styles. My router bit experience has been somewhat spuratic over the years with bits from Craftsman, Vermont American and other Borg suppliers. These MLCS bits are much more significant in price and in apparent quality. The cut will tell the story, however.

Somewhere in the years between building my shop and moving tools from a crowded shed to the shop, the cheap, cheap, cheap miter gauge for my Wolfcraft router table disappeared. I have looked from the rafters to the floor in the shed and my shop, I can't find that miter gauge. None of the numerous miter gauges I have will fit the slot in the router table. I realize I could just make a square block with a handle of sorts to do route the cope on the ends of the rails but....I ordered a coping jig/sled from Rockler. I use my router table in a lot of my flatwork, so I thought I could justify the expense.

I purchased two zero clearance insert blanks for the tablesaw. One will be for a regular blade and one will be used for my dado blade.

I had one relatively new combination blade for my table saw but I really needed a new blade for my sliding compound miter saw. I have always just used table saw blades in my SCMS but decided to try a specialized blade this time and I wanted a new ripping blade for the table saw. Jim O'Dell had expressed great satisfaction with Infinity blades so I ordered one of their miter saw blades and one of their ripping blades. Those will be used during this project along with the combination blade in the table saw.

I should probably consider a trip to HD tomorrow and purchase a new blade for my circular saw.

Well....except for a trip to Moscow, ID to purchase red oak hardwood for the faceframe, raised panel doors and cabinet base, it's time to justify my expenses for this project.

Monday, it's showtime.

[Paul Girouard]

Sounds like a fine plan Ken, is the R. Oak rotary cut , plain sliced , rift , 1/4 sawn?? If it's rotary cut I'd suggest you ask what the price of plain sliced might be, rotary is the common lumber yard / Borg standard stock ply, the grain pattern is pretty "loopy", anyway you might do a bit more study or look at the difference when you get to the supplier to see if you might want to use a different cut.

Good luck , we'll be expecting photo's you know :-))

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Paul,

I bought the A2 red oak plywood at a local lumberyard. It's in the shop. I had 3 choices locally. I don't care for the oak ply I have seen at my local HD. HD carries C-3. I have two lumber yards in the valley here. One stocks A2, the other lumber yard carries C2.

I don't care for any of the hardwood stock available here in the valley so I will drive to Moscow, ID later this week to purchase the hardwood. The plywood in Moscow, ID is A-2 also but is $4 more per sheet for 3/4" stock.

I will look but I suspect it's rotary cut.

The next nearest suppliers of hardwood or hardwood plywoods are over 100 miles away. There is one hardwood supplier in Walla Walla I want to try to get to sometime. I have heard the guy has a wonderful variety and great prices but it's all rough cut, unplaned and sold by appointment only. I will have to call him, set up an appointment, borrow my oldest son's pickup and drive over there sometime.

Photos to follow when they can show something of value.

[Carroll Courtney]

I'm w/you on digital items,but there better be pics,flash or digital.I also think that red oak is a perfect choice it just makes an ETC looks great.And dang-it these pushy bosses we live with----Carroll

[Jim O'Dell]

Anxious to see and read of the progress on the build, Ken. I'll also be starting a Red Oak project in the next few weeks. A computer desk to finish out my computer build I started in Feb. Hope the new blades work as well for you as I think they will. Still haven't got to try my SCMS blade, but will get to on the desk build. Let me know how you like the Ripper. That and the Dadonator Jr. are my next blade purchases. Wish I could get them before the desk build, but will most likely have to wait. Guess I need to look at some of the different cuts for ply to see what I like best, then see if I can afford it!! ;) Glad I don't have to drive as far as you do to get to some good suppliers.
Oh, and I do all my drawings on paper also, but I don't have your background. Mine are pretty rough with measurements. But it seems to work out fine... for the most part. :rolleyes: Jim.

[Phil Thien]

This is going to be a fun thread, or threads.

I'm sure A2 Oak plywood grain is very pleasing, even if rotary cut. I've seen wild variations in rotary cut plywood. All teh stuff I've seen in real lumber yards has been very nice.

Instead of a miter slot for the router table, consider a sled. I made one with some 3/8" BB plywood and a hold-down. Similar to the Rockler one in the pic. It is great for cutting the ends of rails. I didn't do the fancy handle or the front guide/knob. Works just fine.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Phil,

In my original post I said I bought a coping jig but in fact, it is the sled you referenced. I received it Friday, put it together and I am impressed.

Unlike a lot of folks, I prefer to buy some jigs/tools and let somebody else design the bugs out of it. I will copy "shop made" tool designs and have several in my shop but I will also buy commercially made ones.

I like living in Lewiston, Idaho. It is our size town with a population of about 31,000 IIRC. We have nearly everything you need regional medical center, medical clinics, Costco, Super Walmart, Shopko, Home Depot, but woodworking tools are a little light.....and hardwood lumber either sheet stock or solid hardwoods are scarce, limited and expensive. I'll forgive the community for that.

The 3/4" A2 red oak plywood cost me $72.22 per 4x8 sheet. This is a major test for that plywood to see if it's quality justifies it's future use for kitchen cabinets. I can order "cabinet grade" plywood but IIRC my supplier indicated they'd have to special order it and it would cost in the $135 per sheet range.

There are several wood and tool suppliers in Spokane, WA 110 miles away. I am well known at Woodcraft there as I bought my GI dedicated mortiser, my PM3502 lathe there, turning tools and regularly buy supplies from them.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Paul,

I got enough coffee in me and walked out into the shop. I checked the A2 red oak plywood. I am having a hard time determining if it's rift cut or quarter cut. It surely not rotary cut which I believed it probably was going to be.

With a limited local supply, I have to be a little flexible with my wood purchases unless I want to travel some distances.

[Paul Girouard]

Paul,

I got enough coffee in me and walked out into the shop. I checked the A2 red oak plywood. I am having a hard time determining if it's rift cut or quarter cut. It surely not rotary cut which I believed it probably was going to be.

With a limited local supply, I have to be a little flexible with my wood purchases unless I want to travel some distances.

It should have a stamp on the side edge or end. And ya know it doesn't really matter once you made the purchase it will be fine, your wife will love it!! I sometimes forget when I order plywood to be specific about the cut, so it's a "mistake" I've made. After reading your original post more carefully I realized you had the ply but not the lumber.


On ordering your stock have you look into any cabinet shops in your town that may be able to order stock for you? I live on a pretty large island but we only have two maybe three lumber yards, BUT the major suppliers out of Seattle, and Edensaw lumber out of Port Townsend, Wa. come onto the island at least twice a week.

I have ordered stock from cabinet shops before , I sort of have a leg up in that I work in the industry and know the shops / work with them on projects. But I also know all of those shops would order materials for guys like you as it increases their order with the suppliers and of course they would mark it up a little to make a buck or two off the sale, but then again the lumber yards do that as well.

The cabinet shop guys will know which supplier has the best price and who's got the best figured wood , odd ply species , the best looking stock etc. Look for a small custom shops in your area , you might find a similar place to have as a resource for hinges , lumber , other hardware etc. Time are tough for the small shops today so they'd be happy to make any sale that can bring in dollars. You'd be helping them out in ways with business, where as five years ago folks where so busy this kind of thing was maybe not as popular.

How many people in Lewiston? Guess I could Google it!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Paul,

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try contacting the local cabinet shops.

Lewiston, IIRC has about 31,000 people. Clarkston, WA across the Snake River from us probably has about 15,000....then there is Asotin, WA 3 miles south of Clarkston,....and Lapwai, ID on the reservation about 10 miles east of Lewiston. I believe I've seen estimates of around 55,000 within a 10 mile radius of Lewiston.

[Jim O'Dell]

Ken, just to give you something to gauge against ,Red Oak A1 rift cut 3/4" - 4'X8' MDF CORE 85.76, Red Oak A1 Plain sliced 3/4" - 4X8 Veneer Core, 56.00. This is from Plywood Co. of Ft Worth's web site. They don't show any A2. I have only purchased Baltic Birch from them. Usually get my hardwoods and hardwood ply from Barney Robinson Hardwoods, but they don't have prices on their website. Jim.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim,

It doesn't surprise me that wood is more expensive here. They have a captive market and there aren't many hardwood forests nearby.

I turned a cherry pedestal table a couple years ago and finally got a finish on it last fall. IIRC I paid $11 or $12 a board foot for the cherry.

[Jim O'Dell]

No, my thought was that it wasn't out of line. You said A2 and thought either rift cut or quarter sawn and about 14.00 less than the A1 rift I showed. Now if it is plain sliced, then it would be a little high. Jim.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim....IIRC...the cabinet grade...which I believe is A1 was quoted to me at around $134 per sheet IIRC.......and it's not stocked and has to be special ordered.

[Jim O'Dell]

Yeah, now that might be a little tough to swallow. Could it be pre-finished too? That's closer to the price I've seen here for the pre-finished ply. Jim.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Paul,

I found the marking on the 3/4" oak plywood. It' is rotory cut.:o:o:o So I paid $72.22 for 3/4" A-2 Rotory cut red oak plywood.

I was making good progress getting carcass cut out. I had to stop a couple times to talk with contractors. We are getting bids to reroof the house and replace our domestic water line coming into the house. I should have all the parts for the carcass cut tonight and worry about joinery tomorrow.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I had forgotten how much I enjoy working in my shop as it has become better outfitted.

Prior to this project, my last major project was some cabinets for my shop. Those are great but frankly they were utilitarian and I didn't even have drawings. I just knew about what height, width, and drawer depth I wanted. I bought a bunch of 3/4" A/C plywood and got with it.

This time since it's for the LOML and our living room, I made real drawings and am cutting things to a specified size to make a product that comes out in a shape, size and design that was predetermined, agreed upon and authorized by the Boss.

I put some saw horses up in one corner, placed a full sheet of 3/4" CDX on it...then some 2 x 4's and layed the 3/4" oak plywood on that to slab it to near size with a circular saw and straight edge. Then I set my table saw up to cut one width and cut everything to that width. Then reset the table saw for the next width, and cut everything to that width.

Even though I bought a new plywood blade for my c/s and remembered to put the best side down, some of the edges splintered badly. I cut every piece 1/2" over-sized and then took a 1/4" off at the table saw, swapped the piece end-for-end and took another quarter off. Using my first zero-clearance insert on the table saw, all the splintering was removed and I was impressed! Zero-clearance inserts work as advertised. All the plywood carcass parts are cut to size.

Tomorrow I'll do the dados and rabbets using my new zero clearance insert for my stacked dado blade.

I'm enjoying my shop. I'd forgotten how much fun this can be.

[John Thompson]

Good luck... and enjoy Ken..

[Bob Turkovich]

Ok, Ken. How many more posts in this thread until you mention your new jointer?:p

BTW, what's your plans for the finish?

[Ron Jones near Indy]

It certainly sounds like you are enjoying this Ken. That's great!

[Jim O'Dell]

Paul,

I found the marking on the 3/4" oak plywood. It' is rotory cut.:o:o:o So I paid $72.22 for 3/4" A-2 Rotory cut red oak plywood.



Then yes, you do have to pay a little bit of a premium. The A1 3/4" here is 49.12. Jim.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Bob, I promise not to mention my new jointer. The finish will be a wipeon poly. What I haven't decided yet is whether or not to use some stain under it or just use the natural color of the red oak.

Jim...we pay through the nose here for anything that's a hardwood.

The joinery became a lesson in thought, planning and "Oh my!". Putting rabbets on pieces of 3/4" oak plywood 72" x 24" is a bit of a challenge for this old guy. A long the long axis it wasn't too bad but I thought I would have to break out my router on the short axis and then I devised a method to support it as I slid the piece across the dado blades in my table saw. It's late, I'm tired. I will worry about assembling the carcass tomorrow before I drive to Moscow to get the red oak hardwood for the face frame, raised panel doors, and trim around the drawers, top etc.

[Matthew Hills]

Borg red oak plywood was running mid-40s in sfbay area. Veneer looked fine, but had a lot of issues with voids and pringling when I cut it down. If your wood is well-behaved and the grain looks fine to you, I'm thinking you're doing fine.

I used a general finishes wipe-on gel varnish. I liked the resulting color pretty well, as far as red oak projects go (I've since decided that I prefer the subdued grain of birch for ply+trim projects). I tried a number of other stains on offcuts, but always felt I ended up with more contrast than I wanted. I think I only did 2 or 3 coats, which is pretty thin, but I was deliberately trying to stay away from the thick poly look I achieved 12 years ago when refinishing some red oak apartment furniture with brushed-on poly.

[Bob Riefer]

We need pictures! Sounds like it's coming along nicely so far!

[Bob Turkovich]

[QUOTE=Ken Fitzgerald;1722260]Bob, I promise not to mention my new jointer. The finish will be a wipeon poly. What I haven't decided yet is whether or not to use some stain under it or just use the natural color of the red oak.

That's Ok Ken....I'll just try to not let my jointer envy show through ;).

My question re: the type of finish was a result of practical experience. My first major project after retirement (also in my pre-Creeker days) was to also build a red oak entertainment center. In my case, I built a console and bridge to go between two existing bookcases so I carefully tried to match the stain. I did a lot of sampling - unfortunately on board samples, not the ply. I did not realize - until it was too late - that the plywood took to the stain differently than the boards. (The grain was much more definitive in the plywood.) I could really tell the difference under certain lighting conditions. After 3 years, the differences are now less apparent.

If you're going to stain, I recommend you cruise over to the project finishing forum for their recommendations on avoiding this.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

[QUOTE=Ken Fitzgerald;1722260]Bob, I promise not to mention my new jointer. The finish will be a wipeon poly. What I haven't decided yet is whether or not to use some stain under it or just use the natural color of the red oak.

That's Ok Ken....I'll just try to not let my jointer envy show through ;).

My question re: the type of finish was a result of practical experience. My first major project after retirement (also in my pre-Creeker days) was to also build a red oak entertainment center. In my case, I built a console and bridge to go between two existing bookcases so I carefully tried to match the stain. I did a lot of sampling - unfortunately on board samples, not the ply. I did not realize - until it was too late - that the plywood took to the stain differently than the boards. (The grain was much more definitive in the plywood.) I could really tell the difference under certain lighting conditions. After 3 years, the differences are now less apparent.

If you're going to stain, I recommend you cruise over to the project finishing forum for their recommendations on avoiding this.

Well Bob.....you said that was okay....so....today I bought some S2S red oak instead of buying S4S and it was much cheaper! Of course I'll have to joint one edge, rip it to width and then joint that edge....but that's why I bought that new jointer.....There I've said it.

It will sit in my shop for at least 2 weeks before I use it so that it can acclimate to the lack of humidity here.