ULS 4.6 or epilog helix 24?

[Jim Reinhard]

I have been going back and forth between the 2 and would like opinins .I am new to this and want to start out with a larger platform where I will not have to upgrade.The ULS rep is very helpful and I would get great support for starting out.The problem is the price is more and air compressor is not even included.I have read a few posts of people using air brush compressors and blowers from harborg freight .What ones would be recomended as I can save money and go with them .The epilog incudes them but support people are far from me.
Any input would be apreciated.

[Scott Shepherd]

Jim, I owned both those machines at the same time and wrote a fairly extensive review comparing the two here :

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?67576-Epilog-Helix-vs.-Universal-PLS-4.60&highlight=PLS4.60

If you have specific questions, shoot me a Private Message and i'll be happy to discuss any of it with you, via message or in a phone call.

[Frank Corker]

Jim as stated Steve did a very comprehensive article on his encounters with the machines. I am the owner of a Helix and I can only attest to the satisfaction I received on more than one occasion when dealing with Epilog, I live in the UK and the distance has never been an issue when it comes to rectifying any problems you might encounter. In my opinion they are first rate.

[Jim Reinhard]

Thanks was a very informative post.What options are people using for air compressors .The price for the air compressor is high from ULS ,Epilog not so bad but have read you can just use airbrush compressor for them.Also what inexpensive blower options are everyone using.
Thanks
Jim Reinhard

[David Fairfield]

You'll pay a premium for a blower and compressor from the laser company. I got the compressor from my laser rep, was sorry when I realized its just an airbrush compressor, and I already had a spare! I use the cheap green blower from Harbor Freight, still going strong after several years of regular use. (The grilles clog up, so I modified them.)

Haven't used a ULS, I've seen output from it, very nice. I can do equally nice work with my Epilog, which I'm very happy with. So I don't think you can go wrong either way.

Dave

[Scott Shepherd]

You really have to be careful not to cheap out on the air for a ULS. Each mirror has an "air curtain" on it, so when the air is on, it's putting a curtain of air around each mirror to prevent dirt and dust from getting on the mirrors. If you have 1 drop of moisture get through that, it can ruin every mirror and lens in your system. Dry air is a #1 priority for air on a ULS, in my opinion.

I've tried many options and my final setup is a 20 gallon compressor with a refrigerated drier on it just before it goes into the laser.

The factory setup is expensive, but in the end, you'll fight most other options, noise, dry air, etc. Our air drier was about $1000, so not much more would get you the nice, quiet compressor and the drier, all in one from ULS. If I had to do it over again, I'd get the factory system.

I'd also be giving a hard look at Trotec, which has the compressor built into it (Speedy 300).

The prices on all of these has come down drastically. All 3 of those manufactures have outstanding support, all of them will have you parts the next day if something happens, and all of them have good reputations. You wouldn't go wrong with any of the 3, in my opinion.

[Jim Reinhard]

You really have to be careful not to cheap out on the air for a ULS. Each mirror has an "air curtain" on it, so when the air is on, it's putting a curtain of air around each mirror to prevent dirt and dust from getting on the mirrors. If you have 1 drop of moisture get through that, it can ruin every mirror and lens in your system. Dry air is a #1 priority for air on a ULS, in my opinion.

I've tried many options and my final setup is a 20 gallon compressor with a refrigerated drier on it just before it goes into the laser.

The factory setup is expensive, but in the end, you'll fight most other options, noise, dry air, etc. Our air drier was about $1000, so not much more would get you the nice, quiet compressor and the drier, all in one from ULS. If I had to do it over again, I'd get the factory system.

I'd also be giving a hard look at Trotec, which has the compressor built into it (Speedy 300).

The prices on all of these has come down drastically. All 3 of those manufactures have outstanding support, all of them will have you parts the next day if something happens, and all of them have good reputations. You wouldn't go wrong with any of the 3, in my opinion.

What about the epilog ?does it need dry air too ?

[Scott Shepherd]

No, it doesn't. The ULS has those air shields around their optics, the Epilog does not. The ULS blows air directly through the kerf of the cut through a nose cone for air assist. The Epilog uses a system that blows air from the side, across the cut, rather than down into it. One pushes air through the cut, one sweeps air across the top of the cut, so there is no air hitting mirrors or the lens on the Epilog, so dry air is not required.

[David Fairfield]

I use a $20 moisture trap on my compressor. With the Epilog the only thing that can go wrong in the laser if you get moisture in the air line, it will splatter a little water on your work.

So, basically no, does not need dry air.

Dave

[Neil Pabia]

I use a $20 moisture trap on my compressor. With the Epilog the only thing that can go wrong in the laser if you get moisture in the air line, it will splatter a little water on your work.

So, basically no, does not need dry air.

Dave With some of our recent humidity, I was getting a little more water spray then I liked. I did install a filter/dryer and it took care of the problem.

I spent about 2 years comparing lasers before I bought one. One of the biggest factors was the salesman willing to bring a laser to my shop to demo it instead of my having to drive 2 hours to see something. The customer service has been top notch from Epilog for me and the owner of the company is a great guy to talk to as well. The salesman also worked with me to get the best price possible and spent hours showing me around the machine and has always made himself available to answer any questions I may have on the machine.

[Mike Null]

Jim

I agree that the brands you're considering would be the ones I'd look at first. My latest machine is a Trotec Speedy 300 and I use the air assist that's built into the machine. Great tech support and just completed 4 years without a part replacement or service issue.

[Robb Berscheid]

Jim where are you located? I compared the same 2 models and went with the ULS 4.6. In fact it just arrived today and am excited to get it set up. I went with the ULS though because it was cheaper than the helix when the bottom line of each machine was compared with identical options. PM me and I'd be glad to share my price comparisons and what i paid for the machine.

[Jim Reinhard]

Hi robb,I live is south florida.I would easily choose the ULS if the prices were the same .I have been working with the reps and they have done a great job ,but ULS is still more than the helix by almost $1000. The reason being is the compressor and dryer are more .In epilog you can use a air brush comperssor in the ULS you can not also the vector cutting table is standerd in the helix ..Close to making up my mind .Where are you located?How long did it take get yours after ordering?
Thanks Jim

Jim where are you located? I compared the same 2 models and went with the ULS 4.6. In fact it just arrived today and am excited to get it set up. I went with the ULS though because it was cheaper than the helix when the bottom line of each machine was compared with identical options. PM me and I'd be glad to share my price comparisons and what i paid for the machine.

[Dan Hintz]

Jim,

I had the same decision (and I can't remember if I posted in Steve's comparo thread, but I know I posted a long review of my ULS), and ended up with the PLS4.60. If I had the extra cash and went to do it again, I'd go with Mike's Trotec (not that I dislike my PLS, just that the extra speed of the Speedy would have been nice).

[Jim Reinhard]

Dan,I have not looked to much into trotec other than email for a price ,Did not here back from them .was over 2 weeks ago .Maybe the did not get it or maybe it was me.But both epilog and ULS responded fast.Also emaild ccg a few times? Heard back from them a week later and it was a email aboout the reps life story with no price .Maybe ill give trotec another shot but I think service and comunication are key traits.

[Dan Hintz]

Dan,I have not looked to much into trotec other than email for a price ,Did not here back from them .was over 2 weeks ago .Maybe the did not get it or maybe it was me.But both epilog and ULS responded fast.Also emaild ccg a few times? Heard back from them a week later and it was a email aboout the reps life story with no price .Maybe ill give trotec another shot but I think service and comunication are key traits.
You are seeing the same thing I did, and others have noted similar experiences... Trotec never got back to me with pricing (at least in a timely fashion). ULS and Epilog came back within a reasonable amount of time. Never approached GCC, but at the time I was hearing some stories that made me think twice... don't know what it's like now.

[Scott Shepherd]

Some may disagree with me 100%, but that's okay too. I really don't give a rats butt about the rep, whether he's friendly or not. I'm not buying a rep, I'm buying a machine that needs to do what I need it to do. Would you buy a machine that didn't meet your specifications because the rep was nice to you? Lived close by? Or would you buy a machine that did meet your specifications from someone that didn't live close by and wasn't going to become your new best friend?

Bottom line, the rep is just about the last person you'll need to call if you have a problem. There are always exceptions to that rule, but for the most part, if your machine is down, you'll be calling the factory, whether it's trotec, epilog, or universal.

I judge the machines, not the reps. We decide on the machine that's right, and then we go with that, regardless of the rep, their friendliness, or their proximity.

Also know that laser prices are negotiable. If you pay the price they sent you in a quote, you paid too much. If you like the ULS, tell the rep you'd like to buy from him, but his price it too far away from the epilog and see what he'll do.

In my 4 years or so of owning a laser, Epilog and Universal, when the machines had issues, my first call has always been to the tech support line, not the rep.

[Larry Bratton]

I'll throw my two cents worth in here. First of all, don't base your decision on the rep. For the most part, his proximity to you and his personality will be worthless in the long run. I have an Epilog EXT that I have owned for 4 years now. I have been very pleased with the machine and the tech support I have received from them. If I had to do it again, I think I would shop a little bit more. I did my homework pretty well and think I made a good choice for someone that knew absolutely nothing about lasers. Epilog's driver is so user friendly that anybody that can print on a regular printer can print laser jobs. The learning curve is very short as far as that goes. However, having gained 4 years of experience, I think I would also look at Trotec. I am sure Universal is great but just from reading all the posts over 4 years, I'm not sure I am sophisticated enough to use all the features of that machine. The main thing is to be able to create files to run. If you don't have pretty good graphic skills going in, then that will be your stumbling block. If you do, and you get an Epilog Helix, you should be making product the same day you get the machine.
Good luck!

[David Fairfield]

Similar experience. Sent info requests to laser companies across the board, ULS and Epilog replied quickly. Some others slow or very, very slow. One guy called me back to schedule a demo only months after my Epilog was delivered and operational. Hel-lo? Epilog's rep kept his appointment to bring a machine over for a demo and let me test materials and graphics I provided, no hard sell. That was important to me, because I felt confident in the machine and the seller's honesty.

Lots of bewildering choices for a noob, assessing the sales guys, tossing out the non responsive ones and the pushy ones helped me decide. Fairly or not, the company's sales representative reflect the company, as intended. It is a factor, especially when the differences in price and performance are slim.

Dave

[Jim Reinhard]

When I say the rep has worked well with me so far i am basicly talking price .They have both worked hard to get my business so far.But still undecided.

[Mike Null]

The sales rep will be your best friend until you sign the order. If you put any value whatsoever on the rep you're making a mistake.

We have a couple of good ones on this forum--believe me they are the exception.

[Larry Bratton]

When I say the rep has worked well with me so far i am basicly talking price .They have both worked hard to get my business so far.But still undecided.
They want your CHECK! The last time I saw the rep (distributor) that sold me my machine was the day he waltzed out the door with my check in his pocket.

[Mike Mackenzie]

Jim,

If you are dealing with ESS then you can not go wrong with this representative. They are very good at what they do (Now and Later). Call them and talk to them regarding the price I am sure they will work with you. One other thing just because reps include things like cutting tables etc. does not mean the the value of there included parts are equal to what you may have to pay for.

[Scott Shepherd]

The last time I saw the rep (distributor) that sold me my machine was the day he waltzed out the door with my check in his pocket.

Too funny Larry! I believe we had the same Epilog rep, as you were in South Carolina at the time. We thought he was great. Super friendly, just a heck of a nice guy and very helpful. Dropped the machine off and never saw him again. Had issues, called him repeatedly, he kept telling me to call tech support.

I did see him again. The day he came to buy the machine back. He looked at the results and said "Wow, something's wrong here", and all I could do is think "Yeah, that's why I've been calling you for months trying to get your help".

So that's 3 people, you, Mike, and myself saying the rep doesn't matter.

I also agree, there are a handful of reps out there that are outstanding.

[Michael Conley]

Dan,I have not looked to much into trotec other than email for a price ,Did not here back from them .was over 2 weeks ago .Maybe the did not get it or maybe it was me.But both epilog and ULS responded fast.Also emaild ccg a few times? Heard back from them a week later and it was a email aboout the reps life story with no price .Maybe ill give trotec another shot but I think service and comunication are key traits.Jim, the same thing happened to me. I had pretty much decided to buy a Rayjet but finally got tired of waiting for a written quote that I had requested. I bought an Epilog Mini instead. Trotec must be doing great to be turning away business in this economy. Both Epilog and Universal were extremely responsive to all of my requests for information and pricing.

[David Fairfield]

Regarding sales reps, just remembered, my Epilog rep did check in a few times after my machine was paid for and delivered. He even stopped by in person to check my set up and run through the print driver with me. Glad he did, because he alerted me to some things I was doing wrong. So I had a positive experience from the start and believe I made a good choice.

Dave

[Scott Shepherd]

Dave, you are an exception to the rule from my travels. One of the most common stories I hear from people I talk to that own lasers is "Once the checked cleared, I never saw them again".

I've had one case of that being true and one case of it not being true.

However, I'll stick by my belief that they make almost no difference. Let's take a real life case here- if I were rastering, there is no doubt the Trotec is the fastest, most productive machine of the 3. It will run circles around the Epilog and the Universal.

So, would it be in my best interest to buy the best machine for my use, or buy the one that the rep called me back first on? One is a business decision, one is an emotional decision. So what if I have to call Trotec 5 times to get them to return my sales call? Their tech support is outstanding, so it's not like it's going to take 5 days to get a return call from tech support.

For me, it wouldn't even factor into the decision. I'd pick the machine that will make me the most money for the work I do. That may be an Epilog, ULS, or Trotec, but I'd pick the machine, not the rep.

That's just me.

[David Fairfield]

Its a different ballgame for experienced users like you or me. I don't ever recommend buying a sales pitch from a salesman. On the contrary, seeing is believing. If the rep shows up with a machine and does a demo to back up his claims, I can see and believe. If the rep is a no-show, I have a lot less to go on. If he obfuscates or pushes, that might discredit his claims. Epilog's guy gave me confidence in the machine, and that was an important factor.

At the time I was a noob without the experience to ask the right questions to pick the machine, as you say, that would make the most money for the work I do. Now that I have experience and specific preferences, I know precisely what I'm looking for.

Anyway, I wanted to give credit where it was due. My sales guy was AOK.

Dave

[Jim Reinhard]

Dave, you are an exception to the rule from my travels. One of the most common stories I hear from people I talk to that own lasers is "Once the checked cleared, I never saw them again".

I've had one case of that being true and one case of it not being true.

However, I'll stick by my belief that they make almost no difference. Let's take a real life case here- if I were rastering, there is no doubt the Trotec is the fastest, most productive machine of the 3. It will run circles around the Epilog and the Universal.

So, would it be in my best interest to buy the best machine for my use, or buy the one that the rep called me back first on? One is a business decision, one is an emotional decision. So what if I have to call Trotec 5 times to get them to return my sales call? Their tech support is outstanding, so it's not like it's going to take 5 days to get a return call from tech support.

For me, it wouldn't even factor into the decision. I'd pick the machine that will make me the most money for the work I do. That may be an Epilog, ULS, or Trotec, but I'd pick the machine, not the rep.

That's just me.
Good point .I think I will email trotec again Before I make my final desision next week.What model is close to the ULS 4.60? the speed 300? does the air assist need dry air like the ULS. thats one good thing about the epilog its not that important.

[Scott Shepherd]

I do not believe the Trotec needs dry air.

I don't know what you plan to do with it, so I can't tell if one suits your needs better than the other, but having owned an Epilog and a ULS, I like to think I understand the differences fairly well. We recently looked at the Speedy 300 as well and it's probably the nicest machine out of all 3 of those brands. The thing is built like a ferrari. It is unbelievably fast.

Of course speed doesn't matter if you don't have enough power to engrave at top speed, so if you're planning on a low wattage machine, then it may or may not help you, depending on what you are going to do with it. If you have to slow it down to 50% speed to get the engraving deep enough because you have low wattage, then it didn't really pay to get the fast machine.

[Larry Bratton]

Too funny Larry! I believe we had the same Epilog rep, as you were in South Carolina at the time. We thought he was great. Super friendly, just a heck of a nice guy and very helpful. Dropped the machine off and never saw him again. Had issues, called him repeatedly, he kept telling me to call tech support.

I did see him again. The day he came to buy the machine back. He looked at the results and said "Wow, something's wrong here", and all I could do is think "Yeah, that's why I've been calling you for months trying to get your help".

So that's 3 people, you, Mike, and myself saying the rep doesn't matter.

I also agree, there are a handful of reps out there that are outstanding.

Right. I'm sure there are exceptions to everything.

[Jim Reinhard]

What am I going to do with it is the big question.I am going to get 40 watt.Right now I am a cgc and getting older .Need to do something that I can do inside with not as much physical work .Oh by the way I am in south florida and it gets a bit hot outside in the summer.My entire life I have always loved to create and build things.A few years back I was in the mall and there was a kiask setup where they were engraving frames and this and that .I said wow that looks like something I would enjoy doing.I did not think wow look I can make money .But that would be nice.The more I look the more i see can be done with a laser.Not in a big hurry but I am getting excited to get going.right now I dont think speed is that important ,But who knows what will happen later.being in construction I may do arcitectural modeling for a few architects I know or maybe do some wedding stuff .The wife has friends in wedding field .Not engraving .I know people in the resturant businss that may need engraved glasses and wine bottels.

[Jim Reinhard]

Ok I thought I had made my desision and then gcc threw me a curve .The new mercury is less money has pass trough doors and table size is the same .Any input on the new mercury and gcc?

[Dan Hintz]

Search for posts on what kind of help you can get from the company should something go wrong...

[Jim Reinhard]

Did a search and did not find gcc problems. for the price I am really starting to like this one.

[Nigel Morgan]

Epilog, they provide an excellent back-up service

[Ed Maloney]

I have an Epilog. My tube went out after 3 years of use and I ordered and received the replacement in 1 day. In our business our suppliers are everything.

[Jim Reinhard]

Laser is on the way .Will arive this thursday and then on to learning how to use it .I have read a few hundred posts and still reading.Very informative.

[Craig Matheny]

Wow I have read this thread and man I must be real lucky... I have an epilog mini 24 45 watt bought as a demo unit sales rep was great and that is why I bought the unit. Now with that said had a board go out and a motor it wasn't tech support that i called it was my rep he had them next day the parts to the off site location for me. Latter still had an issue and the sales rep contacted Epilog on my behalf and got my warranty extended for an extra year. Had an issue with the laser losing power epilog deemed it needed a new laser tube wanted a 2200.00 deposit I didn't have it called my rep he contacted them next day tube was delivered. I would say who they are but not sure that is aloud on the post no matter hats off to my rep and support team. They even offered for me to come to their show room to run the order I had to ship.

We also own some 6 head embroidery machines and the company we were going with lost that order due to a service issue with one of there small machines so I believe both can be very vital for you to use ass tools to help you succeed.

Thanks to my Epilog sales rep and team