New Saw Gloat!

[bob blakeborough]

So after a long, but well worth it, waiting period, I just received my Bad Axe Saw order! I must say, Mark Harrell was a pleasure to deal with and he builds an AMAZING product! I have only been able to do a few test cuts so far but WOW!!! Cutting with such a sharp saw, and the feel in the hand of such a well crafted too, is such a pleasure...

Anyways, I am not much of a photographer so here are just a few pics. If you're ever looking for an amazing saw, do not hesitate to go Bad Axe... You won't be disappointed!

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8254/saw5g.jpg
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/1769/saw2x.jpg
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5466/saw4z.jpg
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/5545/saw3.jpg

[john brenton]

Meah...

haha, just kidding. Sweeeeeet.

[george wilson]

Not to rain on your parade, rather to protect you, I wonder why the handles have grain running parallel with the blades? This makes the grain cross grained right in the narrow neck where it can break diagonally across the neck. If you look at LN,or just about all the other expensive saws(not the lower priced ones),they have the wood grain running at a downhill angle,so the narrow neck is not cross grain.

In fact,the 1 open handle saw you show alone,2nd picture down,has the grain going UPHILL,where it certainly is the weakest orientation possible.

I did have a cross grained (parallel grained) open handled saw break on me years ago,and it was made from hard maple.

I do hope this advice doesn't upset you. It is factual.

[bob blakeborough]

No upsettedness (real word?) at all George... I appreciate real world knowledge for sure...

Not something I had considered and will investigate a bit, but if it matters, both the open handles are made from mesquite, which I know is pretty strong and tough. Don't know if that give things a bit more durability in this regard...

[george wilson]

Take a look at pictures of LN saws,Wenzloff,most any high class maker. They all have the grain as I said(including mine). I'd contact the maker about it while your saws are still new. I wonder why he doesn't seem to know better,as he does such nice work.

Regardless of the wood,it is not correct practice. If you jam the saws in a cut,or drop one,they could very well break. Are his saws guaranteed? Best to get it resolved while they are new. A small maker could be out of business like Lunn is. You don't want broken handles in the future,and find him gone,either.

[Jim Neeley]

>>drool, drool<< Looks great, Bob!!

[george wilson]

He needs to also make the CLOSED handle with diagonal grain. That thin little lamb's tail,(though they look nice) is not going to contribute significantly to the strength of the handle breaking across the neck.

It does take a bit wider board to lay out handles on an angle. I wonder if his wood was just wide enough to lay them out parallel?

It isn't how hard the wood is. It is also how well does it stand fracturing. Some woods are quite hard,but don't have a lot of strength in the fracturing mode. Elm is quite a good wood for fracturing strength,because it has interlocking grain. It is used in wagon wheel hubs for that reason. However,in something as thin as a saw handle,you wouldn't get the layers of interlocking grain built up.

He really needs to make you some correct handles. Hopefully it won't take months.

[Zach England]

My Bad Axe saw shipped today.

The grain orientation is strange. I wonder why he does that.

[Tony Shea]

Good eye George. It takes a saw maker to pick that one up, actually probably not but still passed my quick inspection. In fact the lamb;s tongue will do nothing to help with the breaking as the lamb's tongue is also going to be cross grain orientation and much much smaller. I would think that portion of the handle is at risk as well.

Other than the strange grain orientation the saws look great and am sure the cut is amazing. Hopefully he catches on to the grain orientation and does something about the rest of production as I also have a saw in the making coming from him. I'm a couple weeks out so hopefully he picks this up.

[Peter Pedisich]

Bob,

I recently received my 14" sash and 10" dovetail saws from Mark, and the cherry sash handle shows the grain angled with the handle, although the mesquite dovetail handle is so hard to tell as it swirls and changes from side to side.
They cut remarkably fast, although I need to work on my technique for starting a cut with the sash - it's filed hybrid cut. The dovetail has a 0.018" plate, and cuts super smooth and is easy to start as well. For me, the weight, balance and feel of the Bad Axe dovetail saw is wonderful.

Pete

[Kent A Bathurst]

George, George, George...........you realize that everyone else here is from this planet, right? :D :D

I mean - the case for HM Elizabeth II had dovetails so tight that there was no room for glue, so you used dowels instead. From ebony. That you turned. I read your posts, and I am able to clearly see the horizon I will never get close to.

I have no argument with you - not in the least - about the proper grain orientation on the Bad Axe saw's handles. I can only hope I would someday be in the position where I have some of them, but I'm stuck with the LN and Adria saws in the till...who's grain orientation, BTW is.........never mind ;).

Please keep your observations, and accomplishments, coming. Those of use that live on this level do our darndest, and admire your skills.

This is nowhere near a complaint, Sir...just an obseration that it is pretty darn hard to live up to your standards...that's all.

Best regards,

Kent

[george wilson]

Kent,it isn't a "living up to my standards" thing to get the grain orientation correct. It's living up to the correct way to orient the grain. Everybody else who makes fine saws makes their grain right.:) I certainly did not want to hurt anyone's feelings,especially the new owner. However,I would rather have him aware of this problem while the saws are new,than to have him end up with broken handles,feeling worse down the road. As I have had to learn most of what I know the hard way,without good advice most of my life,and certainly without the wonderful internet, the greatest learning aid ever invented,I know that getting knowledge can be terribly frustrating and sometimes worse. I have spent months making a mistake.

Other than this problem,I think the Bad Axe saws are extremely well made. They are better than the originals if he's using 1095. This is a serious issue though,and I hope he fixes the problem. My wife and I manufacture jewelry. I am always checking her models(and mine) to make sure they are strong enough in the right places(such as having "O" rings thick enough) that we don't have a flood of stuff coming back on us to replace for free.

P.S.: I'm not sure what you mean about the grain orientation of your LN and Adria dovetail saws. Just Googled them,to be extra sure,and both have their grain going correctly at an angle. Googled Bad Axe too. His saws seem to all have straight grain orientation(except the cherry one mentioned above.)

[bob blakeborough]

So I sent Mark off a quick e-mail asking about the grain orientation and to make a long story short, I am going to take the the risk that his handles will hold up. He is more than accomadating and understanding, and I feel assured that he will be there for me for a long time to come.

On a side note, he seems to have taken up his hand at film production! I have to say his sense of humour does appeal to me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beceAS9tG4Y

[Kent A Bathurst]

George -

From my saw/plane till.

LN 9" dovetail in front, Adria 12" crosscut in back.

OK so far............

197418

[george wilson]

The LN doesn't look too cross grained. A little hard to make out at the angle of the shot. If you Google LN dovetail saw,and do the same for Adria,the saws shown are correct. Are yours early ones?

It is still pretty standard saw handle making to angle the grain,and has been for a very long time. My early 19th.C. Groves are thus. I am too tired to go photograph them. The 18th.C. saws we reproduced had angled grain.

[Mark Baldwin III]

On a side note, he seems to have taken up his hand at film production! I have to say his sense of humour does appeal to me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beceAS9tG4Y

Funny. It almost looks like that vid was in reference to this thread (load date, SMC...). Still funny though. Mark is an accommodating guy, I've had a conversation or two with him.

Kent, I don't know if I'm more jealous of your saws, or your till!

[george wilson]

Here is my old Groves handle and a similar handle I made. The old Groves can be seen to have the grain angled.

I used to make handles wrong,too,over 50 years ago. Since then,I have learned to do better. Some of my early handles broke,too.

In all honesty,I can't be expected to explain every saw handle that Adria or LN ever made. The ones I can see NOW on their sites look proper. It obviously is better to angle the grain,so all I can do is offer my advice on it.

[Kent A Bathurst]

......I don't know if I'm more jealous of your saws, or your till!

Mark 3 - Gratzi. [a] just a question of bucks [b] just a question of too much time spent on non-value-added tasks :p :p

If George decides that my saw handles will fail before the end of my lifespan, I can live with that....or not :eek:.......but they don't get the exercise that Mr Wilson's saws do, so I have absolutely zero argument with him on this or any other topic. Never did, and never will. I'm just not there - wherever "there" is for him - and I will never be "there".

On the till - I simply got tired of stuff in drawers, and lord knows - them I got - and tired of having to open them and either close them to reopen again, or leavign them open and whacking shins on them, so I went the other direction - a bridge too far, IMO. Now, I have empty drawers - unlike NY Congressional Representatives [BOOM!! :D :D ]. If you search the workshops forum, you'll find that I also spent too much time with a camera taking, and posting, photos of that back wall.

EDIT: George got in a reply while I was trying [unsuccessfully] to type with no spelling or grammer errors. George - you wanna sell me one'a them there beauties? ;) And - no, I dont't need an explanation, thanks...I was just showing you what I've got, that's all. I'll live with it....I hope........so far, so good.

[David Weaver]

Funny. It almost looks like that vid was in reference to this thread (load date, SMC...).

Well, or a call because of the thread.

Hopefully he does start with the continuous grain as george is discussing, though. There's no good reason not to do it that way.

I just checked two of my older saws, one an old george whittles (early/mid 19th C?) and one of the older spear and jackson saws that i've seen - with a delicate lamb's tongue and a fairly delicate handle, and they are oriented the way george mentioned.

I'm still waiting for george to start making saws, but i'll probably be too cheap to buy one if he ever does!

[george wilson]

You'll probably complain about my prices.:)

[Mark Baldwin III]

From the beginner's standpoint, this is something that simply never would have occurred to me. Thanks for the pic of your saw, George, now I've got the proper picture in my head (there's a lot of room in there) :)

[Jim Koepke]

I always appreciate George's comments and explanations.

One of the projects that is still away out for me is to make a few saws including the handles. Will likely make a handle first since there is a saw plate in my shop that needs a handle.

It looks like George's saws have different grain patterns. It may just be the older one is not as clear or I am missing something. The newer one looks like the grain is running up and down pretty much in the same direction as the handle. For the one handle I have made just for practice and sizing I went with the plan from Gramercy tools.

197468

Is this incorrect grain orientation?

jtk

[Joel Goodman]

Here is my old Groves handle and a similar handle I made. The old Groves can be seen to have the grain angled.

I used to make handles wrong,too,over 50 years ago. Since then,I have learned to do better. Some of my early handles broke,too.

In all honesty,I can't be expected to explain every saw handle that Adria or LN ever made. The ones I can see NOW on their sites look proper. It obviously is better to angle the grain,so all I can do is offer my advice on it.

George --

I just checked a LN dovetail and LN carcass saw in my shop and they are both as you describe. Please help a novice learn -- I see that this makes the "grip" (the part you hold) stronger but doesn't this orientation create a weak spot between the "grip" and the area of the wood that attaches to the saw plate? Please forgive my ignorance of the correct terminology. And thank you for sharing your extensive expertise!

[Pedder Petersen]

Joel and Jim,

I've the impression you take the "tiger stripes" from the tiger in George Wilsons or Thomas Lie-Nielsens maple as grain direction.

The grain runs perpendicular to the tiger stripes.

Forgive me if I misinterpreted you.

Cheers
Pedder

[Phil Thien]

George --

I just checked a LN dovetail and LN carcass saw in my shop and they are both as you describe. Please help a novice learn -- I see that this makes the "grip" (the part you hold) stronger but doesn't this orientation create a weak spot between the "grip" and the area of the wood that attaches to the saw plate? Please forgive my ignorance of the correct terminology. And thank you for sharing your extensive expertise!

That was my question, doesn't changing the grain orientation simply relocate the weak spot? And wouldn't it be best to locate the weak spot on the widest cross-section of the handle?

[David Weaver]

That was my question, doesn't changing the grain orientation simply relocate the weak spot?

It does, and I think the reason all of the old handles are oriented the same way is because you want the weak spot to be under your hand if possible. If a handle is rift or quartered, it'll have strength through the saw as jim's picture shows, and the bonus is that with some hang angle, the grain in the handle will still be pretty.

When the saws that were made by the english saw industry folks in the 1700s and 1800s were all that way, it's sort of difficult to argue with, because you get a good idea that they were done that way from experience in what works best. It still amazes me how many diversions our tools over here took from english style for the worse in design for use (thicker saw plates on back saws) and in appearance (compare an old disston handle style to anything with a carved lamb's tongue in england).

I don't really have a dog in this race, I just recall looking fairly intently with the last two handles I did to find pictures of old handles to find out how the orientation would be.

I don't want to be seen as someone ragging on mark harrell, because I hear he's a nice guy and he's good to his customers. I hope he doesn't get angry and intentionally ignore the advice and design tradition, at least not on the DT saws where there isn't extra support.

[Kent A Bathurst]

You'll probably complain about my prices.:)

:D :D :D Complain? No. Choke and cough myself silly? Yes.

Shoot...The stuff that's already in my plane + saw till did that to me, so an Original George Wilson would probably kill me. :D :D :D

Worth every single penny, though - I have no doubt about that.

[Terry Beadle]

The grain orientation is a gamble. George's recommendations seem to me to be the best bet but any bet is just that. I would think an apple wood handle with it's interlocked grain would be a good bet. Individual handles of various woods are individual but have "normal" characteristics with in it's species. Individual handles are individual as wind, weather, water, and even animal activities affect how grain can be different from the "norm" of a material.

Another idea is if you are concerned about a particular handle and can tell that it is weak, you might want to inlay a brass L shaped support to the side(s) of the handle. It might make the saw more beautiful and could provide a opportunity for some scrimshaw action. A nice 3/16ths thick naval brass L shaped support would never break from normal use and last and last. One side or both sides ... of course MONEY plays a role. It's fun to speculate though.

All that aside, the saws are works of art and will make cutting a dove tail a dream

Enjoy !

[David Weaver]

Apple wood is good, but it is a *bear* to find good domestic apple that's all heart and is dead quartered.

The benefit of it being that even though it's interlocked, you can still see some predominant grain in it and it is otherworldly to work. Hard, but not chippy at all, and very forgiving to an errant rasp stroke that may go back across the grain. (if I had to redo this handle, I would orient it a little more like george says (and I would also avoid dinging up the sides of the wood next to the split nuts - it's too bad lessons are easiest learned by errors), but there is at least a little continuity from front to back).

I am no klaus and pedder or george wilson, that's for sure, but I did at least luck into some apple once!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=177243&d=1294592978

[george wilson]

The goal of angling the grain is to make the WEAKEST area,the little neck between the grip and the saw plate,stronger. There is no way to make the whole,entire grip indestructible(unless you make the whole grip out of hand made plywood.) With wood,you can only do your best.

Since the very greatest bulk of all saw handles were made of beech wood,not the strongest,or hardest wood in the
World, the best possible compromise was,and still is,to angle the grain so it is straight going through that narrow neck. At least,the other areas of the handle,like the grip,are much thicker than the little neck.

Builders should also be encouraged to not make their horns too long. They are also very prone to break off,as is often seen on old saws. Also,excessively long horns may become uncomfortable during long sawing sessions. There is always a tendency(of which I was as guilty as anyone) to exaggerate features such as horns,and to make them too extreme.

David,at least some of your apple wood has continuous grain through the neck. Very good work,though.

As for the pictures I posted above: The old Groves has quartered beech as its handle,and you can see the growth rings going at an angle,if somewhat faintly. On my saw below,the curly maple was flat cut(it is hard to get it quartered,and that is what I had),but the grain is angled. Hard to see in the pictures,though. The point of the photo was to show that the old makers did it that way. Back then,hand tools were the tools they depended upon in daily work. The makers competed with each other to produce the best tools. Those tools were developed over centuries of experience. In the days of hand tool work,the builders knew what they were doing,and had to make their tools well to sell them. Today,a lot of that old knowledge is lost,or is still there if you pay attention to details. The "weekend warrior" might use his saw to practice dovetail cutting for a few hours,and not depend upon it not breaking in order to manage to put bread on his family's table. To us,a broken handle is a nuisance. To them,a broken handle might mean less food while taking valuable work time to remedy it. We forget,or just don't know, how terribly hard the old timers had to work just to survive.

[Peter Pedisich]

We forget,or just don't know, how terribly hard the old timers had to work just to survive.

Good point, George. I think about this often. I read Eric Sloane's Diary of an Early American Boy to my son to give him an idea how boys helped their dads in 1805 instead of playing wii! But you have to live it to understand it fully.

[george wilson]

Jim,I failed to answer your question. Yes,the grain orientation is perfect.

Peter,I did have to live it. My whole youth was spent pretty much in a pioneering existence. I had to help carry enough wood to build a house several hundred yards uphill in Alaska,dig post holes in frozen muskeg,set dynamite,pill stumps,burn them,make a road,run a jack hammer, run a chain saw,and many other things that kids for the greatest part never imagine today. We had no electricity for about 3 years,and lived with the Sun. Up at 5:00 to haul oil for the day up the hill,and get the water turned on. The last thing at night was to go down the hill,chop open the frozen water main,and reach down in the water filed hole and turn on the water.

Might account for my curved spine today,but also was the foundation for making things that I have now,and was lucky enough to be able to do for a living.

[Klaus Kretschmar]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=177243&d=1294592978

That is a very nice handle for sure, David!!

It's very correctly sculpted, crisp where it was intended to be crisp and properly rounded where it has to be. What I do like especially are the flowing lines from the cheeks up to the neck along the grip and down to the lambs tongue. That's the way it should be, very classy!

Klaus

[george wilson]

Yes,it is a very nice handle,and David does his work with hand tools.

[David Weaver]

Thanks, Klaus. I apologize that I've shown this before, but I haven't put together many saw kits (the metal parts are from mike W - I have filed teeth into bare plates before and I recognize I'd rather just buy those parts!) and having not put too many together is by design. Mike had this as a template, and I thought it looked nice, even though I might have gotten away from the template a bit for the lines. It's still somewhat plain, but it takes someone like you or george to recognize those things that I found pretty difficult as a piker, making sure those lines were defined clearly to attract the eye, but still preventing zero negative vibes in the hand.

I can comfortably say I won't be making any saws or putting any kits together that aren't for myself, and that, no more than what I need in my saw kit. They are difficult and time consuming to get everything done by hand (with the exception of drilling the plate) and then still be lucky enough on a saw with long cheeks to have a straight plate and tooth line when you're done.

Making handles takes forever, and I have not been able to find any more good domestic apple. It is special in that it is forgiving, non porous and hard and durable but the large trees in the US have been replaced by pygmy trees that don't yield a good clear wide span of hardwood.

You guys have my utmost respect for doing the level of work you do over and over.

[Zach England]

They are difficult and time consuming to get everything done by hand (with the exception of drilling the plate) and then still be lucky enough on a saw with long cheeks to have a straight plate and tooth line when you're done.

I feel better seeing someone else say this. I have several wenzloff and a few other kits I have been toying with for quite a while. I have probably started and screwed up at least 5 or 6 handles. I always fail miserably at some point. I have been doing everything by hand except for roughing out the handle on the band saw and drilling it to receive the bolts.

I had a similar problem with my first plane totes, but I got those figured out quickly. Saw handles are proving much more difficult.

I just do not have the skill set.

[george wilson]

Just keep working at it,Zach,and pay careful attention to details. That's what it really is all about.

[Zach England]

Just keep working at it,Zach,and pay careful attention to details. That's what it really is all about.


I know. It hurt to toss all those nice pieces of tiger maple into the kindling bucket.

[David Weaver]

If it makes you feel any better, I've thrown two handles away. One was macassar ebony (bad choice to work on with an aggressive new rasp) and the other was hard maple, I think I didn't like the slot worked out on that one and got part way through and pitched it. That was the first saw, this was the second one because even when I got a useable tote, I didn't like how it turend out and I got advice from george on why it didn't look good (it felt fine and functions fine, but didn't look good). Once you get one out that is reasonable acceptable, you'll probably keep most of the rest of your efforts unless you run into a new wood that behaves funny or you get in a hurry and try to shortcut something.

I'd love to be able to make about 80 of these things so I could start firing them out at.....5 hours or so per. Because even though that one's plain, it would take a solid 5 hours of work for me to do another one by hand. Since I had to think about what I was doing with this a lot and which tools to use, and creep up on things slowly, I'll bet I spent at least 8 hours on it. That seems crazy to me, but we're not pros.

here's my tip for when you're working on something new like this, a couple of them, actually.
* it's easy to get short attention span when you have to think about everything you do - which is what happens on the first few saw handles (maybe that gets better, I will not make enough to know). I work about an hour at a time on these handles and then I do something else.
* slow first and then fast with material removal. Every wood is a little different, I started with slow first to gauge wood behavior and then went faster as I got comfortable
* absolutely draw out all of the lines you never want to cross with removal for any reason, at least on one side. You can work the second side to look like the first by eye after that, but it's easier to draw or template the handle somewhere else first and then work to it on wood. If you made dozens of them, you could go by feel and proportion
* the number one rule in woodworking anything, only move your hands when you know when you're not messing something up. I didn't abide by that with the sawnut mortises, i paid for it. If you feel like something isn't going right or you're not sure, stop, put it down if you have to and come back later.

I agree on the plane totes. They are easy to bang out in an hour with hand tools only and they all come out great. A good saw handle, especially one with long cheeks and the desire to make crisp transition lines is hard for people like us. that's just the way it is. Using the saw is worth the efforts. You only have to make the handle once, and then you have a tool that is permanent and that feels really familar. I can't imagine using a "store bought" saw now instead of this one, because there's just something about using tools you made that makes the use sweeter. All of this stuff about "so and so's saws are better than some other guy" or "you need to have the newest latest and greatest tooth profile or saw with a heavier back" or some other such thing goes away - you have your saw, you use it, your mind shuts off wondering whether or not you could buy some other new thing.

Maybe a good lesson for the feeling you get when you first get a good tool and don't find it limits your work - no need to read all of the new tool reviews that are set up to convince us we need something else that is 98% the same but with some new differentiating feature.

[Jim Koepke]

Joel and Jim,

I've the impression you take the "tiger stripes" from the tiger in George Wilsons or Thomas Lie-Nielsens maple as grain direction.

The grain runs perpendicular to the tiger stripes.

Forgive me if I misinterpreted you.

Cheers
Pedder

Pedder, thanks for clearing this up.

I get confused about wood grains enough without needing something new to bring confusion my way.

jtk

[Zach England]

What is killing me is cutting the kerf slot. I cannot start a backsaw cut straight enough to be acceptably straight for that depth. Someone mentioned sharpening the actual plate I will use for the saw and not setting the teeth, and clamping it to the top of my table saw. I am going to try that next.

The other problem I am having is making mortises in the saw nut bore holes The saw nuts I have have a square head below the actual head and there is no good way to mark this so I can chisel it out accurately.

[Jim Koepke]

What is killing me is cutting the kerf slot. I cannot start a backsaw cut straight enough to be acceptably straight for that depth. Someone mentioned sharpening the actual plate I will use for the saw and not setting the teeth, and clamping it to the top of my table saw. I am going to try that next.

The other problem I am having is making mortises in the saw nut bore holes The saw nuts I have have a square head below the actual head and there is no good way to mark this so I can chisel it out accurately.

The method I have heard for cutting the kerf slot is to anchor the blade at the proper height on a surface and then move the handle along the unset teeth to cut the slot.

As for the saw nuts, once you have arrived at the point of putting the saw nuts in, just install them and lightly pull them in to place. This should mark the wood to show where you need to do a little paring for a tight fit.

jtk

[David Weaver]

I go even lazier than jim with the saw nuts. They'll be under tension, so those mortises need to be close, but they don't need to be perfect.

I drill the small holes on the DP with the saw handle clamped on. Then, I use an auger to cut the hole for the saw nut to depth (which is a great tool for that, because it allows you to work slowly and the wings cut the hole nicely, so long as the lead screw is at least as large as the hole that was cut for the saw nut threaded area - irwin bits have lead screws big enough for that, jennings bits don't).

Then just match a chisel up to the size of squares on the saw nut and tap out a box by eye with sides matching the chisel length in the saw nut hole, inspect quickly and chop out if the layout looks OK. If the nut fit is snug, you can pare/chop it back a tiny bit more.

For the slot, I marked center with a marking gauge and started the cut with a ryoba, working around the cheeks of the saw and then gradually working down, being sure not to let the plate of the ryoba flex. It wasn't that handy for that because there is no spine on it, i had to be careful and go slow. If anything flexes, then the cheeks will just impart anthing out of flat inside on the sawplate and flex the plate as soon as the nuts are tightened. I'll bet it took me five full mintes to make that one simple cut to full depth.

I could not get the saw plate strapped to the table method to work - domestic apple is way too tough and resistant to abrasion to allow itself to be cut like that. I might've been able to get soft maple to work, but I didn't try it.

I noticed that the saw handle on my old Nurse dovetail saw flexes the plate a little, so someone cut that blade slot by hand and it wandered a little at the end. No matter, the saw still cuts well. It is hard with no specialized tools to make everything perfect, especially if you have good vision (which will drive you nuts in that you can see all of the problems that don't really affect use all too well).

[Zach England]

The method I have heard for cutting the kerf slot is to anchor the blade at the proper height on a surface and then move the handle along the unset teeth to cut the slot.
jtk

Do you use the blade for the saw you are making or another saw? I tried doing this with my LN thin plate DT saw because the kerf it cut, including the set, was just the right width for the slightly thicker plate I was going to use in my new saw. However, I somehow managed to bend the LN saw very slightly while doing this. Thankfully I was able to bend it back and it still cuts straight.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

You'll probably complain about my prices.:)

Can I be the first to complain about George's prices? :D

Part the George Wilson fan club, learn much from him!

[David Weaver]

Can I be the first to complain about George's prices? :D

Part the George Wilson fan club, learn much from him!

I already complained to him about his prices, and he's not even making saws. My pa dutch relatives would tell you you've always got to work at someone constantly in case they ever decide to sell something.

I figured if he ever does make saws, maybe I can work him down to $5 or so. That'd be great :)

[Zahid Naqvi]

Zach, look at this tutorial by Tim Hoff (http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/INDEX_How_To_pages/TimHoff_MakingSawHandles.htm), the second picture shows you what Jim is referring to. Couple thing to keep in mind, make sure the blade is absolutely horizontal to the table top and the exact height you want for your kerf location. I've been bit by both mistakes, so I suggest making a test cut on a sacrificial piece first. This setup basically gives you a starter kerf once you get about 1/2" deep you can do the rest by mounting the handle in a vise. Regarding the kerf width, you should never use the same blade for which you are trying to make the handle (I have seen recommendations to do this at several places). The thing you are trying to match is the kerf width with your saw plate width, inevitably whichever saw you use will have some set and will always make a kerf thicker than its saw plate. So you wnat to find a saw which is slightly thinner than the target saw and makes a kerf just about the same width as the saw plate of the saw you are making the handle for.

Sorry to hijack your thread Bob but badaxe saws are no doubt of a very high quality so congrats on your acquisition, now go cut some dovetails and mortise and tenon joints.