I need to put new brakes on my grandson's car-where is best place to get parts?

[dennis thompson]

My grandson is turning 17 & will get his license next month :eek:. My son gave him a 1999 Ford Taurus which needs brakes (it has disc brakes on all 4 wheels) & I plan to do the brakes myself. Do you ever buy auto parts over the internet? If you do where would you recommend I go for them?
Thanks
Dennis

[Larry Edgerton]

To qualify, until recently I owned a share of a repair facility. We refused to use brake parts from all of the new style chains like Autozone, etc. etc. Too many problems, which reflects on the shop. So if you wanted to use discount parts, you had to take it somewhere else.

Currently Napa seems to supply the best quality parts, and has the biggest share of parts made in the USA. Shopping for brakes, which are somewhat important, I would not use price as my guideline.

Larry

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

+1 on NAPA. I have used them a lot.

I have had success with Pep Boys and Auto Zone parts, although I usually do not get the lowest priced option. The middle of the road one often has a better warranty.

Have you ever done brakes before? They're actually pretty straightforward but be prepared for obstacles (frozen bolts etc), and replace *everything*. I would also replace (purge) the brake fluid.

[Matt Meiser]

I've never been good enough at planning ahead to order on the web other than customizing parts. I've had good luck with the chains as well. But for my wife's Focus, NAPA beat the price on the rotors by a wide margin and like Larry said they were made in the US. The pads were comparable in price. Plus with the local places you can pull off a part and take it in to compare and make sure you are getting the right thing. I.e. when they asks if you have the 10" or 11" brakes and yours measure 10.5". Umm... Then there's the warranty. If you've got a warranty on the pads are you going to take them off and mail them to the interweb place and wait for replacements to come back? What if you get a warped rotor (it happens?)

I'd buy a lot more at Napa if my local Napa store would stay open later in the evening, Saturday afternoon and/or Sunday. I'm lucky to be finishing dinner by the time they close at 7 on weekdays. The local lumber yard didn't learn that lesson and a feed store bought the property at the auction...

[Jim Sears]

I've used rotors brake pads on my truck, my wife's car and my son's car from O'Reilly's. Never been disappointed with them. I don't mean to dog Larry here, but the real reason most shops won't use owner supplied parts is because it cuts into their profit margin. I have a good friend who is the parts manager for a Ford dealership. I've been in the shop when Auto Zone or Advanced Auto Parts delivers something to them. They will get the part at a discount because they are a dealership, and then charge list price plus their markup on the part.

[Jeff Monson]

Dennis, I'd stay away from the internet for this project. It really stinks to get the car tore apart only to find you got the wrong parts. Chances may be slim....but it's a whole lot easier to run to the parts store to get the right ones. I'm a fan of Wagner MX series pads, they are a great pad. You get what you pay for in auto parts.

[Chuck Wintle]

and before you start the job you may want to squirt loose-nut on the caliper and other places...especially the bleeder screws which are likely rusted in place.

[Joe Angrisani]

AND....

Don't do a "pad slap". You MUST address the rotors. If there is enough metal left, you can resurface the old rotors. If there is not enough metal left, you have to replace the old rotors. But installing new pads against old, untouched rotors is NOT a brake job.

And since you're in humid New Jersey, flush the brake fluid (as JohnT suggested), if it's been more than a year since the brakes were flushed.

ps...Check the actual pad material front and rear. Odds are it doesn't need both at the same time. Be sure to check the inner pad and outer pad at all wheels. I'll bet a shiny quarter it only needs front brakes.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I agree with Joe!

We had a Blazer that the dealership couldn't get the brakes to last or work properly. We had 4 brake failures on 4 steep mountain roads Once it was off warrantee, I did the brakes. After that until I broke my back I did the brakes on all my vehicles because my wife trusted only my brake jobs.

Flat surface against flat surface....new surface against fresh surface. I always turned or replaced the rotors when I installed new pads.

[Greg Peterson]

I work in the parts industry from the wholesale side. The independent shops do have a vested interest in selling their customers parts, it is a logical and reasonable profit center for them. Now some shops do have outrageous markups on their parts, but you can not begrudge a shop for trying to sell a part that has a warranty backed by the manufacturer and the wholesaler that sold them the part.

Our customers, the installers, know that if a part they bought from us goes bad prematurely, they are going to be covered by OUR warranty policy, which is beyond generous by a country mile. Bringing your own parts to the repair shop is similar to bringing your own popcorn to a movie theater. Except if the popcorn is bad you can always go out to the lobby and buy fresh. If the parts you provide are wrong, your car is now sitting on the rack costing them money (time) while they source the correct parts.

I have dealt with part numbers and parts look up on a daily basis for twenty five years. I will tell you that even with the vast improvements in electronic cataloging in recent years, they still have not surpassed the paper catalogs and expertise of a well seasoned parts person. And when a shop's bottom line is predicated on turning as many cars in a day as possible, the smart operators will trust their local parts guy over a novice looking to save a few dollars.

And I don't know if many of you are familiar with the cost of professional tools, but the average mechanic and shop owner have an enormous investment in both tools and training. You won't see Craftsman tools in many professional tool boxes, just like you won't see Craftsman CS in cabinet shops. And those analyzers you see them plugging in to the car? Not only are they expensive, but there is a subscription fee for the data they require to read your cars computer.

Most of these shops are owned and operated by guys that love cars. They certainly didn't get into it thinking they were going to be wildly wealthy. And if you think the independents markup is outrageous, try the dealer. That's they bread and butter. Selling the car is practically a loss leader for them. They make their nut from the service department.

As for OE brake pads from the dealer? They are not the same pads that were put on in the factory. So don't think that a dealer supplied part is going to be identical to the original component.

As for the DIYer, you may want to consider a local, independent parts store. They would appreciate your business far more than the big national chains. The company I work for is one of the last privately owned, independent wholesalers in our market. We have to compete against the big boys every day. I like to keep my dollars as close to my front yard as possible.

Give that little parts store a try. Chances are pretty good they are going to give you great service.

[Joe Angrisani]

.....Bringing your own parts to the repair shop is similar to bringing your own popcorn to a movie theater.....

No. It's like bringing your own food to a restaurant and asking them to cook it. :)

[Greg Peterson]

No. It's like bringing your own food to a restaurant and asking them to cook it. :)

+1. Excellent.

[Scott Shepherd]

Maybe if I weren't getting ripped off on my pop corn and parts, I wouldn't have to bring my own.

My Dad just had a quote to have spark plugs changed in a 6 cyl car, from the dealer. $285 in parts.

Get serious. For what? Funny, when a car dealer walks into our business and wants signs made, they always want them for a bargain. I can't take a sign that everyone else sells for $100 and tell the car dealer it's going to be $315 for the sign. They'll walk out my door.

It always seems to be fair to charge someone crazy high prices, but no one ever thinks it's fair to pay them when they need to buy something.

[Curt Harms]

Where in New Jersey? I've gotten parts from National Parts Supply store in Lambertville. They seem like they might be a step up from Pep Boys et. al. Try googling "national parts supply+nj".

[Curt Harms]

No. It's like bringing your own food to a restaurant and asking them to cook it. :)

A local shop we use is okay with installing owner supplied parts, they just charge an hourly rate. They of course won't stand behind owner supplied parts; they install them and that's it. If the part fails in 2 weeks they collect the labor charge again. The risk to the shop is an owner claiming a part failed due to improper installation but it apparently hasn't been a problem so far for him.

[Joe Angrisani]

.....My Dad just had a quote to have spark plugs changed in a 6 cyl car, from the dealer. $285 in parts. Get serious. For what?......

Exactly. Tell us "for what?". Sounds to me like we're talking about some kind of new-tech ridiculous "lifetime" sparkplug that generally doesn't need replacing. Give all the facts. WHY are they being replaced? Has a misfire trggered an engine fault code? Is there even a problem, or is it just someone getting prices on preventative maintenance that doesn't need to be done in 2011?

[Joe Angrisani]

....when a car dealer walks into our business and wants signs made, they always want them for a bargain. I can't take a sign that everyone else sells for $100 and tell the car dealer it's going to be $315 for the sign. They'll walk out my door.....

Just like you/your dad chose to do with them.

[John Lohmann]

Go to slick deals, search for advance auto parts. You will find many discount codes for parts. Ship them to the store for free shipping. If there is a problem, go back to the store & they will fix it. They also can get you free tools as required for the job. This is a old list of discount codes
Receive an Extra 20% off Sitewide w/No minimum w/Coupon P20.
$5 off on $15 or more w/Coupon BIG5.
Receive an Extra $10 off on $30+ order or $20 off on $50+ order or $30 off on $100 w/Coupon A123.
Receive an Extra $25 off $60 or more w/Coupon BIG25.
Receive an Extra $30 off $75+ order w/Coupon BIG30.
Receive an Extra $35 off $85+ order w/Coupon BIG35.
Receive an Extra $50 off $200+ order w/Coupon BIG50.

[Greg Peterson]

Scott, We have some spark plugs that cost the installer over $10 each. Iridium, double platinum.... So if they double the price, your looking at $120 in parts and $165 in labor. Labor rates around here are in the $90 /hr range, give or take $10. At $90/hr, they' charging you 1.8 hours.


Getting to the spark plugs on some cars is especially challenging. A couple hours is not unreasonable. I have no problem paying a mechanic for their hard earned expertise. It's tough, dirty, grimy work and unlike some professions, shops don't like to keep incompetent mechanics around. Come backs are bad for business.

The exotic spark plugs many engines use these days are designed to have high mileage replacement intervals. As such, engineers don't worry about making the plugs easy to access.

Car dealers are a different breed than repair shops.

[Scott Shepherd]

I said in my post, parts, not parts and labor.

[David Weaver]

For rotors in decent shape (not scored, warped, cracked - OEM rotors, not inconsistent junk parts), resurfacing might be ideal, but if they are OK but not perfect, it is BAD DEAL for the customer to pay (fill in the blank) to resurface the rotors, and a great pocket liner for the shop doing the work at some of the quotes I've seen (like $250 to resurface four rotors when the car is already in the shop to change pads - that's more than it would cost me to get four brand new rotors). It seems like most of the manufacturers now are advising against getting the rotors done for nothing more than sport, anyway.

Anyway, on the cost of parts, the last time I got OEM pads, they were $50 for a VW jetta - OEM, not OEM spec, but OEM. 8 years ago, the VW dealer did the pads (pads only, no resurfacing rotors - looking back, i'm surprised they didn't suggest that because they were absolute pigs) on another jetta I had (rear pads) for $160 plus tax. They charged me $90 on the service ticket for pads that I just got for $50 for the same generation (jetta IV) 9 years later. I'm sure they would've been less at the parts counter, they've been remarkably close at the VW dealer counter to internet genuine audi VW parts. What do you think they'd do if you bought parts at the parts counter when the pads were at a marginal thickness to pass inspection and then put them on the seat of the car and went right over to the service counter and scheduled the pads to be changed?

I had the same issue with plugs as someone mentioned above. The dealer told me the only spec plugs for it were 40k mile iridum core plugs, and it would be $195 to change them and $19 per plug for parts (!!), and they suggested plug wires at the same time for another $175 (on a car with 35k miles). The mechanic "suggested" that I get them changed at 35K miles - this was back in the day when VW had a split warranty and the bumper to bumper part was only 2/24. I suggested he not change them unless he wanted to do it for free. That's the last time I took a car to dealer service.

Genuine factory service manuals are available for everyone to understand their own cars. They're not written in greek, and all of mine have had code glossaries in the back. If you get through two sets of pads on rotors that aren't warped or cracked, you'll likely not still have the car when you're done, and if you're worried about what you're doing, you can always do your work a little ahead of schedule right before you get an inspection.

I can't comprehend why people refuse to understand anything about their cars these days.

[Myk Rian]

I said in my post, parts, not parts and labor.
It was clear to me. Some people don't read, then like to argue.

[David Weaver]

Scott, We have some spark plugs that cost the installer over $10 each. Iridium, double platinum.... So if they double the price, your looking at $120 in parts and $165 in labor. Labor rates around here are in the $90 /hr range, give or take $10. At $90/hr, they' charging you 1.8 hours.


Getting to the spark plugs on some cars is especially challenging. A couple hours is not unreasonable. I have no problem paying a mechanic for their hard earned expertise. It's tough, dirty, grimy work and unlike some professions, shops don't like to keep incompetent mechanics around. Come backs are bad for business.

The exotic spark plugs many engines use these days are designed to have high mileage replacement intervals. As such, engineers don't worry about making the plugs easy to access.



Once you start working on your own car, you can have a look at the car and service manual for regular stuff like this ahead of time and see what it's going to cost to do it (as an individual).

My experience has been that a lot of car makers who boast about their engineering seem to have the dumbest setups for service (needing to remove a tire to change a head lamp bulb, plugs that are in places that are near impossible to get to, etc), and the most expensive required parts. I thought I got rid of dealing with VWs when I dumped my old jetta IV, and then I met my wife, and ...ugh...she also had a jetta IV. Fortunately, hers has been less problematic than mine was, but every time I have to get to anything in the engine compartment other than a burnt out coil, I wonder why the engineers hate mechanics so much.

[Bryan Morgan]

My grandson is turning 17 & will get his license next month :eek:. My son gave him a 1999 Ford Taurus which needs brakes (it has disc brakes on all 4 wheels) & I plan to do the brakes myself. Do you ever buy auto parts over the internet? If you do where would you recommend I go for them?
Thanks
Dennis

I usually get my brake parts from tirerack.com. They seem to have the best prices on the higher end stuff. No complaints so far, just did the brakes on one of my cars a couple months ago.

[Bob Turkovich]

.... The exotic spark plugs many engines use these days are designed to have high mileage replacement intervals. As such, engineers don't worry about making the plugs easy to access.



As a semi-retired Powertrain engineer that had to live with engine packaging issues on a regular basis, I'll take exception to that remark (the worry part...).

I have only worked for one OEM but all new vehicle designs had serviceability requirements. These included that all underhood routine maintenance parts (e.g., spark plugs) be accessible with tools available to the typical shadetree mechanic. Unfortunately, underhood packaging can be quite difficult and serviceability may be compromised if there is no other way to meet more important design requirements such as impact performance (of which engine position is critical), NVH, emission hardware packaging, etc. Even then, we had to show that all efforts were exhausted to try to maintain serviceability.

[Larry Edgerton]

I work in the parts industry from the wholesale side. The independent shops do have a vested interest in selling their customers parts, it is a logical and reasonable profit center for them. Now some shops do have outrageous markups on their parts, but you can not begrudge a shop for trying to sell a part that has a warranty backed by the manufacturer and the wholesaler that sold them the part.

Our customers, the installers, know that if a part they bought from us goes bad prematurely, they are going to be covered by OUR warranty policy, which is beyond generous by a country mile. Bringing your own parts to the repair shop is similar to bringing your own popcorn to a movie theater. Except if the popcorn is bad you can always go out to the lobby and buy fresh. If the parts you provide are wrong, your car is now sitting on the rack costing them money (time) while they source the correct parts.

I have dealt with part numbers and parts look up on a daily basis for twenty five years. I will tell you that even with the vast improvements in electronic cataloging in recent years, they still have not surpassed the paper catalogs and expertise of a well seasoned parts person. And when a shop's bottom line is predicated on turning as many cars in a day as possible, the smart operators will trust their local parts guy over a novice looking to save a few dollars.

And I don't know if many of you are familiar with the cost of professional tools, but the average mechanic and shop owner have an enormous investment in both tools and training. You won't see Craftsman tools in many professional tool boxes, just like you won't see Craftsman CS in cabinet shops. And those analyzers you see them plugging in to the car? Not only are they expensive, but there is a subscription fee for the data they require to read your cars computer.

Most of these shops are owned and operated by guys that love cars. They certainly didn't get into it thinking they were going to be wildly wealthy. And if you think the independents markup is outrageous, try the dealer. That's they bread and butter. Selling the car is practically a loss leader for them. They make their nut from the service department.

As for OE brake pads from the dealer? They are not the same pads that were put on in the factory. So don't think that a dealer supplied part is going to be identical to the original component.

As for the DIYer, you may want to consider a local, independent parts store. They would appreciate your business far more than the big national chains. The company I work for is one of the last privately owned, independent wholesalers in our market. We have to compete against the big boys every day. I like to keep my dollars as close to my front yard as possible.

Give that little parts store a try. Chances are pretty good they are going to give you great service.

Thanks, Larry

[dave toney]

I know it is standard practice for repair shops to double the price on parts, but it kind of chaps my hide.
They make more on the parts than the manufacturer or parts jobber, they don't have to stock it, the part is delivered to their door, and they often don't have to pay for the parts for 30 days.
Add in $70.00 or so per hour and that is why I have done all of my own repairs for the last 40 years.

[Greg Peterson]

I said in my post, parts, not parts and labor.

And we were talking about repair shops, not car dealers. Everyone should know that dealers charge the most for parts and service.

[Dave Lehnert]

I never did understand why a brake job cost so much in a shop.

Like one of the post said above. I get e-mail alerts from Advanced auto all the time for some incredible deals. $10 off $30 order etc.. All you do is order on-line then drive to the store and pick it up.

[Greg Peterson]

It was clear to me. Some people don't read, then like to argue.

Yeah, I missed that part where he mentioned $285 for parts. But your other comment is off base. Perhaps you should start at the beginning of the thread to see just who came in whining about cost.

The OP was asking about buying his brake parts online. The conversation shifted slightly as to whether or not a repair shop (not a car dealer - talk about reading comprehension) would install parts supplied by the customer.

Having been in the parts supply business for twenty five years, I know a little bit about the topic. There are numerous reasons why a shop is justified in not using the customers parts. Profit is one reason, but far from the only one.

Reputable shops want their customers to return. They have little interest in ripping off a customer. It's too expensive to replace a customer.

As for dealer supplied brake pads, in my experience, they are not the same pad that was installed in the factory.

Brake rotors are ridiculously inexpensive these days. Why tie up the rack while you turn the rotors when you can hang and bang? Besides, the brake lathe is just another piece of equipment the shop doesn't need to purchase or maintain.

[Greg Peterson]

I know it is standard practice for repair shops to double the price on parts, but it kind of chaps my hide.
They make more on the parts than the manufacturer or parts jobber, they don't have to stock it, the part is delivered to their door, and they often don't have to pay for the parts for 30 days.
Add in $70.00 or so per hour and that is why I have done all of my own repairs for the last 40 years.

$70? That's a bargain.

As for the parts side of the equation, I'll refrain from voicing my opinion on that matter.

[Bryan Morgan]

I never did understand why a brake job cost so much in a shop.

Well, if they are doing anything other than just pad slapping it takes awhile. It took me about 5 hours to do my car. Remove, clean, lube the calipers. Remove the brackets to get the rotors off. Clean all the mating surfaces of rust and crud. Reassemble everything. Replace the brake fluid. These brakes had to be bedded and properly surfaced so I had to drive it around and make specific types of stops and varying speeds and pressures. Stops are strong and smooth as glass. Never had that happen when someone else does my brakes. "If you want it done right, do it yourself" I don't understand why anyone trusts mechanics to do anything these days. They can't make any money if they do things the right way and people won't pay it because they think it costs too much.

[dennis thompson]

Thanks for all the advise.
I think the suggestion to buy from a local parts supplier in order to exchange them if you get the wrong parts in a good idea.
I used to own an auto repair shop & I wouldn't think of buying the parts & bringing them to a shop to have them installed & if I still owned a shop I wouldn't install parts brought in by the customer.
I do plan to replace the rotors. Fortunately the car has four wheel disc brakes which I find are a lot easier to replace than rear drum brakes.
As to local repair shops (not dealers) charging too much.... I know a few shop owners & they don't appear to me to be very rich people, they seem to be hard working shop owners trying to make a decent living & I certainly don't begrudge them that.
Net of it is, I think I can save my grandson about $250-$300 by doing it myself & at the same time teach him a little about cars (not to mention that I'll have a go'fer to get me tools as I need them:))
Dennis

[Joe Angrisani]

I know it is standard practice for repair shops to double the price on parts, but it kind of chaps my hide.....

But you find it OK that department stores double their prices? And that supermarkets double their prices? And the pizza joint doubles (triples?) it's prices? And that your computer accesories are doubled? And your goodies from Home Depot are doubled? And that coffee from Starbucks is quintupled.....?

I'd almost bet something in the creation of your paycheck meant doubling costs.

[dave toney]

But you find it OK that department stores double their prices? And that supermarkets double their prices? And the pizza joint doubles (triples?) it's prices? And that your computer accesories are doubled? And your goodies from Home Depot are doubled? And that coffee from Starbucks is quintupled.....?

I'd almost bet something in the creation of your paycheck meant doubling costs.
Department stores, supermarkets, and most stores STOCK the product.
I have been a cabinetmaker for 30 years, if I doubled the costs of all of my materials and then added labor I would be priced out of the market.
I can hear it now "what do you mean charging me 180 dollars a sheet for cherry plywood?".
As for the cost of tools that was mentioned earlier, I have 10's of thousands of dollars invested.
I will also use wood supplied by the customer without it being a problem.

[dennis thompson]

I thought we were talking about putting brakes on my grandson's car?
Dennis

[David Weaver]

Department stores stock and distribute the product. They also don't charge you book labor to get the product out of the store.

Same with the pizza place (which is a notoriously high margin product). The cost of the goods is so small and the labor much higher that you're paying for them not to get the ingredients, but for them do something with them.

However, they don't charge you markup on the ingredients, and then give you a separate bill for labor.

The idea that someone is entitled to make an extra $100 on a $100 item simply for ordering it is a joke, and it's only tolerated because people don't know any better. The fact that you can't take your own parts to a mechanic and get around that is even dumber.

"no, you can't bring your own parts. It doesn't allow me to skim off of you and the parts supplier without telling you that i'm doing it".

[David Weaver]

I thought we were talking about putting brakes on my grandson's car?
Dennis

Yep. I would go with OEM from an online supplier, that's the short answer to the roundabout comment I made earlier. There's no guessing about hardness or softness of the pads and whether or not they'll be too soft and wear fast, or be too hard and work over the rotors.

In the event that doesn't work, the parts counter at the dealer shouldn't be *too bad*, at least not like the price on a service ticket for the part would be.

[Joe Angrisani]

Department stores, supermarkets, and most stores STOCK the product.

Department stores, supermarkets and most stores don't have the liability costs per customer that an auto repair shop has. Nor do they have the specialized equipment costs per customer that an auto repair shop has. And if you think WalMart buys it's inventory, you have been duped, sir.



I have been a cabinetmaker for 30 years, if I doubled the costs of all of my materials and then added labor I would be priced out of the market. I can hear it now "what do you mean charging me 180 dollars a sheet for cherry plywood?".

I can't speak for your business model.



As for the cost of tools that was mentioned earlier, I have 10's of thousands of dollars invested.
I will also use wood supplied by the customer without it being a problem.

Tens of thousands? THAT'S ALL? A single machine, as an example - an alignment machine setup - can easily go over $50,000. And now Dave Toney's standing at the counter sayng he wants an alignment for $49.95 (and the rent and technician have to be paid out of that). Do the math on that one.

A brake lathe is a $4,000 machine at the low end. A car hoist is $3,000-$4,000 plus installation. Each. An A/C machine another four grand. Flywheel grinders and valve and engine machinery is a whole new level of play; easily $10,000 for each tool in professional quality, PLUS the cutting/milling/grinding accessories. We're not even getting into the $250 oil drain collector or the $200 injector tester or the $1500 scan tool. Or the $300 a month in technical subscriptions. And at $75 for one large Snap-On wrench (yes, ONE, not a set), the typical mechanic has $40,000-$50,000 in his individual tool box.

My intention is not to make it sound like a rant. I just wanted to list some things since you are way off on what you think a mechanical repair shop's tooling costs (since you think a cabinet shop's tools even come close). I know 15 or 20 shop owners from my days in the business, and they represent a good cross-section of makes and models and shop sizes. Not a one of them is rich.

[Joe Angrisani]

I thought we were talking about putting brakes on my grandson's car?
Dennis

It's "off-topic", Dennis. Anything goes while we gather around the coffee machine. :)

And my post in the #8 slot above, three hours after your OP, I offered my professional opinions on your brake job. :) :)

[Bobby O'Neal]

Napa. Agreed.

[Greg Peterson]

The Taurus is far and away one of the most common vehicles in the US, thanks in large part to the rental fleet of the 90's.

Choosing a OE pad may challenging as pads have gone through some major changes in the past decade. Within any manufacturers pad line there exist numerous pad material options. Organic, semi metallic, ceramic metallic, fleet (think Hertz rental fleet), SUV, performance.... It is doubtful the dealer will have the original friction material for that vintage of Taurus. Plenty of good choices.

As for tool cost, I know of a independent Volvo shop that pays $13k a year for the subscription to the data for their scanner. Without this service they would be unable to service late model cars. So the next time a shop charges $100 to 'diagnose' your car, it isn't just a simple, cost free procedure. And those scanner don't tell the technician what the root cause of the problem is.

And I would guess the average mechanic has tens of thousands of dollars tied up in their tool boxes, which themselves can easily cost in the thousands. And then you have training. Keeping up with automotive technology doesn't happen by accident. Ignition, emission and fuel systems are complex. And ever changing.

I am surprised that anyone would even try to open a new repair shop considering the large capital investment required just to equip a modern shop.

[John Lohmann]

Yeah, It went off topic

[dave toney]

Department stores, supermarkets and most stores don't have the liability costs per customer that an auto repair shop has. Nor do they have the specialized equipment costs per customer that an auto repair shop has. And if you think WalMart buys it's inventory, you have been duped, sir.




I can't speak for your business model.




Tens of thousands? THAT'S ALL? A single machine, as an example - an alignment machine setup - can easily go over $50,000. And now Dave Toney's standing at the counter sayng he wants an alignment for $49.95 (and the rent and technician have to be paid out of that). Do the math on that one.

A brake lathe is a $4,000 machine at the low end. A car hoist is $3,000-$4,000 plus installation. Each. An A/C machine another four grand. Flywheel grinders and valve and engine machinery is a whole new level of play; easily $10,000 for each tool in professional quality, PLUS the cutting/milling/grinding accessories. We're not even getting into the $250 oil drain collector or the $200 injector tester or the $1500 scan tool. Or the $300 a month in technical subscriptions. And at $75 for one large Snap-On wrench (yes, ONE, not a set), the typical mechanic has $40,000-$50,000 in his individual tool box.

My intention is not to make it sound like a rant. I just wanted to list some things since you are way off on what you think a mechanical repair shop's tooling costs (since you think a cabinet shop's tools even come close). I know 15 or 20 shop owners from my days in the business, and they represent a good cross-section of makes and models and shop sizes. Not a one of them is rich.

I understand the costs of equipping a business, I own one.
All of the costs of equipment, rent, insurance etc, can be included in the hourly rate.
I never said that the practice of doubling the parts is illegal, unethical or immoral. it just seems unnecessary.
Insulting me by saying that I have been "duped" is also unnecessary.

[Joe Angrisani]

...All of the costs of equipment, rent, insurance etc, can be included in the hourly rate.
I never said that the practice of doubling the parts is illegal, unethical or immoral. it just seems unnecessary.
Insulting me by saying that I have been "duped" is also unnecessary.

Never meant to insult. Thought the ", sir." showed the light side of it. Should have tossed in a smiley. My only intention was a little "hangar talk".

Yes, I agree. The costs could be included in the hourly rate, but then we'd be paying $150/hr instead of $80-100. The costs and profits are just spread over two areas with the system that's in place. Put the profit in whichever column you want, but it all comes down to the final cost for a job, be it a proper brake job, or a fine cherry cabinet.

And by no means is every part marked up 100%. Plenty of stuff went through my books at 5-10%, especially the pricier OE parts.

[George Lesniak]

Dennis,

Replacing brakes on the front of your Taurus should be a piece of cake, the rear may be a little more involved. The original formulation for the brake pads on your Taurus is ceramic, unless the vehicle has a police package or was originally sold a s a fleet vehicle. Looking at our on-line parts catalog (CARQUEST) we list 11 different formulations of friction material for your vehicle, including 3 different formulations of ceramic. Not all ceramic pads are equal. Formulations range from economy, through original equipment to ultra premium ceramic. As was already mentioned, you must keep in mind brake pad formulations change over the years. OE is usually NOT the best as it has been vastly improved upon. If you are looking for the best brake pad for your vehicle, look for Aekebo.

As for rotors, don't let anyone fool you into thinking they sell US manufactured rotors for your vehicle unless you are specifically looking at some ultra high-end performance parts. The last rotor foundry in the US closed its doors almost 5 years ago.

[dennis thompson]

So we got my grandsons car registered & I started to check the brakes. Jacked up the car & pulled off the two front wheels in the garage (about 90 degrees & 90 % humidity) I'm working just inches off the floor & sweating like the proverbial pig. Time for plan 2
1-look up prices of parts
2-look up brake estimate I got
3-notice the difference is about $225
4-decide at age 67 it's not a great idea to change the brakes myself
5-decide that a saving of $225 is not enough
6-I'm taking it to the shop for brakes
Call me lazy but don't call me crazy:)
Dennis
PS as I sit here typing this I look out my back window & see a deer relieving herself just before, I'm sure, she will eat my flowers & shrubs

[David Weaver]

& see a deer relieving herself

She's just making room for more of your flowers before she starts in on them :)

[Thomas Bank]

Looks like you've decided to have someone else do it, but just to throw it out there I've been using www.rockauto.com for years now. Their selection process of mfg, year, model, etc narrows things down pretty well and their customer service when I have had a question on application has been excellent. Prices even with shipping have been better than anything I can find local. However, if it is going to be less than $25 I usually end up buying local anyway.

[Greg Portland]

My Dad just had a quote to have spark plugs changed in a 6 cyl car, from the dealer. $285 in parts.I know my 2008 Toyota Highlander is 4+ hours of 'driveway labor' to get to the plugs. Fortunately they only need replacement every 120k miles. Perhaps your car also has the plugs "hidden"?

[Greg Portland]

My grandson is turning 17 & will get his license next month :eek:. My son gave him a 1999 Ford Taurus which needs brakes (it has disc brakes on all 4 wheels) & I plan to do the brakes myself. Do you ever buy auto parts over the internet? If you do where would you recommend I go for them?I'd check some of the Ford forums for recommendations, the price will vary based on the model and availability. For example, I can get genuine Subaru parts online at a significant discount (versus NAPA or the dealer) but with my wife's car it is a wash once you factor in shipping. I would have to imagine that Ford brake pads are a high demand item and would be sold cheaply at Napa, Autozone, etc.

[Jim Koepke]

I ordered parts from these folks recently and was very happy:

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/

When doing caliper brakes, only use a high temp grease for the sliding parts. DAMHIKT!

jtk

[William Burgess]

Dennis,
Have a small sledge hammer to remove the old rotors. There's a good chance its rusted on. Just bang on the sides until the thing comes loose. I changed the rotors on my F-150. Took me 5 hours to do one wheel, 3 hours to do the other 3. Prepare for a little learning curve, but once you have the process down you will fly through it.

William

[dennis thompson]

Dennis,
Have a small sledge hammer to remove the old rotors. There's a good chance its rusted on. Just bang on the sides until the thing comes loose. I changed the rotors on my F-150. Took me 5 hours to do one wheel, 3 hours to do the other 3. Prepare for a little learning curve, but once you have the process down you will fly through it.

William
William
Thanks for confirming my decision to have it done by my repair shop
Dennis

[Jerome Stanek]

I just installed new pads and rotors on my Ranger didn't have to use no hammer to get the rotors off. 2 hours and that included the trip to the parts store for rotors and pads.

[Matt Meiser]

I've not run into that problem in my limited experience on front rotors. Rear drums, yes. My wife's Focus I can now do them in an hour, but it helps that we have a spare set of rotors because I bought new the first time assuming we wouldn't be able to have them turned. We could so I Boeshielded them and stuck them on the shelf. When I did them this time, the replacements could also be turned so I did the same for next time. The first time took a little longer because I had to send her to the store for a 7mm hex bit. Thank to Michigan pot holes, the car is easier on rotors than wheels. :(

Going to find out how hard they are on my 2WD F150 before winter since the dealer noted the pads are getting close to needing replacement when I had it in for a dead wheel speed sensor a month or two ago.