weird question: dust and shavings control in neander shop

[Zahid Naqvi]

This is probably a weird question in the context of a hand tools shop. The thing is I moved into a new house late last year and have been able to grab a corner of the garage as the shop. As those who live in north Texas will verify it can get a little toasty out here during the summer months. I am also fortunate enough to have a side door that open in the back yard. If I open this door and the garage door I can get the semblance of a cross breeze going which keeps things tolerable. But this wrecks havoc with the shavings and saw dust which fly all over the garage and with kids going in an out the house some of this makes its way inside the house. You can imagine the LOML is not happy with this sometimes. Typically I am very diligent about keeping things clean around the bench but if I am in the middle of a major planing session I will collect a pretty decent pile of shavings before I have a chance of tiding things up. A gust of wind in between can spread these all around the garage and under the cars etc.

Just wondering if someone else created some innovative solution to this problem.

[David Weaver]

I just track them into the basement (which is carpeted) and take the heat, just like you do.

The amount of trouble I get over it (which isn't insignificant) still doesn't outweigh being comfortable and relaxed in the shop. If I had to follow all shavings and dust around to ever little speck, I wouldn't be comfortable and relaxed.

[Mike Henderson]

I can't answer your question but I'm in the process of putting dust control on my power tools. Yesterday, I was doing some work with hand planes and a big pile of shavings were building up at my feet. I actually started thinking of ways to attach a dust collection hose to a hand plane. Then I said, "This is a dumb idea." and didn't pursue it any further.:)

Mike

[jamie shard]

Dust control seems to be an issue mostly for sawing operations. I just clean up more frequently during those. I do have a shop vac that I've debated rigging up near the vise... but haven't yet. (No significant breeze in the basement, even with the windows open!) Otherwise, I just let the shavings pile up until the end of the day.

[Zahid Naqvi]

I actually started thinking of ways to attach a dust collection hose to a hand plane. Then I said, "This is a dumb idea." and didn't pursue it any further.:)

Lol! now that would be interesting to see, I think this is a Derek Cohen type project.

[Jim Neeley]

In Alaska we have a similar but opposite problem: keeping warm in the winter.

What we do is to insulate our garages and add heat. What about a small window / wall / door mounted AC unit? For temporary use an AC could be mounted into a "door insert", frames in with 2x2's and insulated (if desired). Just open the door and insert this framed-in AC when you're working in there. That'd reduce the air motion.

Mike.. A DC?? Don't tell me your "inner Norm-ite" is exposing itself.. :eek::D:eek:

[Jim Matthews]

Clean rooms use "sticky mats" to avoid particulate migration, by foot traffic.

They won't keep the shavings from flying, but may catch them at the door.

Sticky mat (http://www.stickymats.com/)

[john brenton]

If I'm going to do a butt load of planing ill lay a long cardboard box in front of the bench. The chaw from the RedMan keeps the shavings weighted down. The box usually sits behind my lathe to catch all that mess.

[phil harold]

Have to train the Mrs. that wood is clean.
If it was not the doctor would not use wood for tongue depressors...

[Joel Goodman]

I actually started thinking of ways to attach a dust collection hose to a hand plane. Then I said, "This is a dumb idea." and didn't pursue it any further.:)

Mike

Finally a way to make a Bailey as noisy as a powertool!!

[Niels Cosman]

Funny, I have just been thinking about this very issue. I have been pondering the implications of having a little all-hand-tool bench in my apartment (essentially one bedroom-studio). Sawing and rasping seem to be the biggest issues. A vacuum cleaner or DC would pretty much defeat the whole idea of the project and cause my neighbors to hate me in short order. I was thinking that a box-fan or two rigged with some air-filters could do a pretty good job at cutting down on errant particulates.

[Tom Vanzant]

A DC hose might work on a smoother, but the shavings from a scrub or heavily cambered jack would probably bridge and plug any hose smaller than 2 1/4". A broom is easier...

[john brenton]

The lee valley catalogue has a bag that fits on a regular house fan that could be useful.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Why not institute a no-shoes policy for inside the house?

Pam

[Tony Shea]

I'd say the sticky mat such as those for clean rooms, like stated above is your best bet to keep the Mrs. happy.

And for god's sake please don't hook up a DC to a handplane. That's one of the most important reasons that I resort to hand tools is the peacfulness of the whole thing. Add a screaming DC or shop vac while planing or sawing and you might just as well break out the table saw and planer.

[Stu Gillard]

Dust and shaving in the house ?

Here's your new jewelry box/rocking chair/footstool etc.

That's how I survive the ire :cool:







Just don't turn her a rolling pin :D

[Paul Saffold]

Why do you have cars in your workshop??

[Curt Putnam]

Spousal & progeny training is in order. Part of who & what you are is making a temporary mess with wood. While you are doing that they need to stay the heck out of the garage. If they don't, there will be stuff tracked in. It's not the end of the world. That's what vacuums are for.

[Gary Hodgin]

I have a similar problem in my 2-car garage shop. The only door is the big remote controlled garage door. If I leave it open for air or if I need to open it, I get the same problem as you. I don't have a solution, but in this heat I'd prefer to chase shavings as to keep the door closed.

[Andrae Covington]

I don't really have any helpful suggestions to add, I just wanted to say that I have a pile-o-shavings problem... :p Usually it continues to grow through the winter months until the leaves have composted in the bin out back enough to make room for the shavings.

197362

I have dedicated shoes that I wear in the shop and change before going back upstairs, and that seems to help, but wind gusts and kids tromping through is an entirely different ballgame.

[Mark Baldwin III]

My workshop is my spare bedroom, and I live alone. Not a problem here!!!! I keep a large cardboard box at one end of my bench and brush all of the shavings into it as needed. The shavings are then donated to friends and neighbors for hamster homes and bonfire starters.

[phil harold]

Why not institute a no-shoes policy for inside the house?

Pam

I like that solution
I implement that in all the houses I live in

[george wilson]

No shoes on feet will track more sawdust and shavings than shod feet. We had a young guy in the Anthony Hay Cabinet Shop in the 70's. He'd come in with his shoes wet in the rain,take off his shoes,and drag a bunch of shavings upstairs into the break area. Generally he was just a big mess maker.

Can you keep a garbage can next to the bench,and just keep putting fresh shavings into it? I never did like to let my floor get too messy. I tend to clean up as I work,or cook food.

[Pam Niedermayer]

No shoes on feet will track more sawdust and shavings than shod feet. We had a young guy in the Anthony Hay Cabinet Shop in the 70's. He'd come in with his shoes wet in the rain,take off his shoes,and drag a bunch of shavings upstairs into the break area. Generally he was just a big mess maker.

Can you keep a garbage can next to the bench,and just keep putting fresh shavings into it? I never did like to let my floor get too messy. I tend to clean up as I work,or cook food.

The idea is that you go up to the door and take off shoes before going inside. I think you'd notice if you had shavings on your bare feet, probably slip on the floor. In the shop I tend to wear clogs so it's easy to shed shoes.

I also tend to clean up as I go along, knowing how much I'd hate losing an important piece in the mess.

Pam

[Derek Cohen]

Sorry if this disappoints some. I believe in electricity. It exists for a purpose.

I try and clean up as I go. The shop is too small and the work area too compact to restrict movement. It gets dangerous.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Power%20Tools/Fein%20VC%20and%20Dust%20Deputy/DustDeputyandFeinVaccum1.jpg

This is a fantastic combination!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Zahid Naqvi]

Why do you have cars in your workshop??

Exactly! the garage was never mean to hold cars the architect had a wood shop in mind when he added the garage to the house. Now how to I convince the LOML :confused:

[john brenton]

I figure you'd have a no shoes policy for inside the shop too.


Why not institute a no-shoes policy for inside the house?

Pam

[george wilson]

Actually,the young guy would take off his shoes,and the shavings would stick to his 18th.C. long stockings. I was glad when he left.

[Matthew Hills]

Get a wall-mount fan, mount it near the high-traffic areas and direct it to keep the sea of shavings at bay and out of the way of little feet.

And what type of doormat do you have outside the door? The tall, grassy ones work pretty well for us (although not sure they're tested as hard with wood shavings adhered by velcro).
If you're looking forward to a particularly satisfying shop session, maybe get a sticky mat (used a lot as heading in to commercial clean room gowning areas), and put that down just inside the door.

(we also don't wear shoes inside the house)

Matt

[Zahid Naqvi]

we have a semi no-shoes policy in the house (we have a separate indoor and outdoor shoes). I actually keep a big trash can at the tail end of the bench to catch shavings and try to cleanup saw dust as soon as possible with my shopvac. But texas in spring and early summer is very windy and it's a constant struggle. I will typically do a cleanup at the end of each day I get to work in the shop.

[David Weaver]

I have a setup similar to dereks, except the can is a 33 gallon garbage can. I still end up with a lot of stuff in the vac, but maybe 1/4th as much as there would be without that goofy dust deputy thing.

What I did find out with the dust deputy, though, is that the inlet is a clogging point for plane shavings. If I was less messy and wasn't so tightly spaced in the shop, I would dustpan the plane shavings first, but I'm not, i'm not and I don't. I run an input into the garbage can through the lid and have the line to the vacuum through the top of the dust deputy (and stick a piece of cardstock onto the DD's inlet to block it). If I ever use power tools (like a planer) again, I'll run it, but it's a pretty worthless device for plane shavings and an incredibly overpriced piece of moulded plastic at $60 (without the bucket). It's really nearly beyond me how they came up with that price. I found one discount, even at that, it was really underwhelming what you get for the money.

We also have a no-shoes in the house policy, but my wife is really over the top about clean in general, so it has nothing to do with woodworking.

[Jerome Hanby]

Maybe you could adapt one of those air resistance stationary bikes into a dust collector...

[Derek Cohen]

Hi David

I have never experienced the DD clogging with plane shavings. If yours is, then I suspect that there is insufficient suck from your vaccuum. I use a Fein, and this is excellent. It drives the standard 2 1/2" (I think) hose across the length and width of my shop (double garage). It also drives a 4" hose, which sucks up shavings from the floor and, amazingly, from a Delta lunchbox planer (thicknesser) - not as well as the 6" attached to a 2 hp dust extracter, but good enough when I do not want to go to the trouble of hooking it up.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Zach England]

I have a 4 inch hose from my DC with a blast gate attached to a leg of the workbench. On the ends of the hose I have a funnel-shaped attachment about 6 inches in diameter that I use to suck up dust, shavings, pencils, sheets of paper that contain plans and important notes, safety glasses, wood bench dogs, small wood parts, etc.

[David Weaver]

Hi David

I have never experienced the DD clogging with plane shavings. If yours is, then I suspect that there is insufficient suck from your vaccuum. I use a Fein, and this is excellent. It drives the standard 2 1/2" (I think) hose across the length and width of my shop (double garage). It also drives a 4" hose, which sucks up shavings from the floor and, amazingly, from a Delta lunchbox planer (thicknesser) - not as well as the 6" attached to a 2 hp dust extracter, but good enough when I do not want to go to the trouble of hooking it up.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek, I also have a 2 1/2 or 2 1/4 or whatever the larger OD hose is. Where they get stuck is at the inlet since there is a step there where the inlet is smaller in diameter than the vac hose. It is the fore plane shavings that cause a problem, because they are stiff enough to get stuck there and then slow other shavings down and cause a pile-up. Jack shavings are usually broken up and smoother shavings are too fine to have enough structure to stick.

Have you cut back that inlet at all so that the diameter of it when a shaving first meets it is closer to the diameter of the hose connected to it?

A bigger issue is that my vac might have too much suck (it is about a 200 cfm vac) and if I use the cyclone as a cyclone, plane shavings go right around in circles and then up through the cyclone into the vac (or they go straight up without having gone around). The strange thing is if I run it straight through and hook the vac to the top of the cyclone and just block the side inlet, I get better performance (in terms of the % of shavings that end up in the can vs. the vac) than I do if I just hook a hose to the top of the can and not use the cyclone bit at all. Not hugely different, but easily enough better that you can fill the can without having to empty the vac at all.

It works well as a vac with dust, though. As you describe, machine tool shavings are no issue.

The side bonus is that if I want less draw (because there is something on the floor under the shavings that I can't find), I can just unblock the side inlet and I still have enough suction at the hose to pick up stuff, even though it is probably half or less of full thrust.

[Eric Brown]

I use a big Rubbermaid storage container. I put it at the end of where I am working and try to put the shavings in as I work. I can move it easily to under a vice or lift it up to the bench and sweep the top clean with a bench brush. I find it easier to stay clean than wade around in it. You can see it here:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?107457-Gloat-With-picture!&highlight=

Eric

[David Keller NC]

Zahid - I'd second the suggestion to get a small air conditioner. 18th century woodworkers may not have had one, but they weren't working in Texas during the summer, either.

Failing that, consider getting a craftsman shop vac. These are a step above what the Borg sells in both capacity and (importantly) noise, for just a few extra dinero. Generally, even with the "extra expense" hepa filter upgrade, this is going to cost you less than $80. And they are very quiet - I can talk over the phone in my shop with it running, somethign I definitely can't do with my dedicated DC in the "on" position.

[David Weaver]

Both places (borg and sears) should have quiet shop vacs now. It does look like the sears vac might be a bit cheaper than the noise reduced ridgid, though when you compare 12 amp 16-gallon noise-reduced vacs.

[Jonas Baker]

I know that hand tools are generally considered less dusty than power equipment, but I seem to generate a massive amount of dust and shavings with my planes. Mind you this may be the result of allowing my planes to become a little more dull than I would like them to be. I use a shop vac with some frequency, and other than the loud noise of my home depot shop vac, it isn't much of a burdon. When doing heavy planing, the vacuming becomes less frequent and the piles take over a bit, but it's not hard to vacuum up at the end of the day. I think if you keep on top of it, the mess can be avoided. I'd also recommend an A/C which has the added benefit of lowering humidity! Which can only help in a texas summer.

I have to say, I really would like a more quiet vacuum cleaner, so I may try out a craftsman, unless I can somehow splurge on a festool or fein, and of course the cyclone attachment seems like a great idea. By the way, what is the Borg?

[Jerome Hanby]

By the way, what is the Borg?

Big Orange Retail Giant, a reference to Home Depot, but applies to any of that type of home center. Could also be a Star Trek Next Generation inspired comparison of those big boxy stores to the cubical Borg spacecraft.

[Mark ten Haaf]

Maybe this is a dumb idea, but if wind is the factor here, maybe a return to the original function of the "threshold" is in order. They were first used when commoners had dirt floors, and used straw or thresh for insulation. The piece of wood secured to the bottom of the doorframe would prevent the wind from blowing it out of the house.
I imagine that most of the shavings are blown around fairly close to the floor. If you had a dedicated piece of stock that you could place in front of the door only during your shop time, I think that would eliminate most of the migration of the shavings from the garage to the house.
On the other hand, I can imagine one of your children racing out of the door and tripping over it, and then you would have to sift through the shavings to find their teeth....Maybe a dust collector that separates teeth from shavings? Wait, then you wouldn't need the threshold.....Man, I suck at thinking.

[Pam Niedermayer]

I figure you'd have a no shoes policy for inside the shop too.

Heh, heh, no. In the shop I have a "must wear" shoes policy.

Pam

[Trevor Walsh]

I can't answer your question but I'm in the process of putting dust control on my power tools. Yesterday, I was doing some work with hand planes and a big pile of shavings were building up at my feet. I actually started thinking of ways to attach a dust collection hose to a hand plane. Then I said, "This is a dumb idea." and didn't pursue it any further.:)

Mike

I believe that's called a Festool.

[Jim Matthews]

Nah - thinking is hard. You're doing fine.

That's an elegant engineering solution, particularly if it is effective.
I wonder if you could block the bottom third of each door with foam core board from the artist supply shop?

Keep it low enough that the kids could step over, high enough to keep the breeze down?

An interesting problem, anyway.

An alternate storage solution (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2RDh0EqRH8)