Handheld Hollowing???

[Dan Cannon]

Hi All,
I'm really wanting to try my hand at hollow forms. As of now, I have literally no tools that would be suitable for hollowing. All the searches I've done for suggestions seems to go back to "get the monster system and don't look back". Well, I'm a realist, and I know I simply cannon afford the monster system (or any of the others), as much as I'd love to. I'm impatient, and want to give it a shot, and don't want to wait until I can work up to the articulated or captured systems out there. Sooo, does anyone have suggestions on the best handheld hollowing tools?? Do the Monster handheld tools adapt to use in the system if I ever get one down the road? Any words of wisdom from the always helpful creekers?
Thanks!

Dan

[John Hart]

Hi Dan,
I'm sure there will be lots of answers by lots of people, but if you wanted to get started right away, especially on hollow forms that aren't too sizable, You can make your own out of fairly inexpensive materials. I made a hollowing tool that I call the Ugly Stick. I made it maybe 5 or 6 years ago, and I still use it. I found an old chisel in the yard...buried....and I just ground the profile, and glued a handle on it. It's ugly. But it works.
Here's the thread where I made another one for John Miliunas http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?53154-Test-Driving-A-New-Ugly-Stick

[Tim Thiebaut]

I have several hand held hollowers, 2 sorbys, 1 large and 1 small swan neck, and I also have an EWT Ci3-h5...between the 3 of these I could have just about paid for a monster...dang it. But of the ones I have hands down the EWT is the best...for me...its range is about "6 Dia. max so keep that in mind if you go that route.

Now this is just an opinion based on my own experiences, but after dealing with the violent catchs, work pieces being torn loose from the base and thrown across the shop, numb hands from the massive vibration...I wish I had just saved up and bought the monster instead of spending money on all of these hand held units. I am going to limit them to fairly small pieces from now on..."4-5 max and wait on bigger things until I get a articulated rig.

[Thom Sturgill]

Since I am near retirement, I went on a spending spree and bought many tools, but I built my own captured and articulated systems. None are perfect, but the articulated seems best. I bought one of Don Pencil's arm braces and have his boring bars, but they would be simple to make (I did make a straight one) out of 3/4" steel rod from the BORG and metal lathe bits from Harbor Freight. You can switch the bars between a regular straight handle, the arm brace, and either the captured or articulated system. Randy (Monster tools) makes handles for his boring bars, but only straight ones a far as I know.

All that said, I still am interested in the new articulated bar Sorby is selling. may be better for getting into problem areas and should adapt to the various holders.

[Antonio Martinez]

Check out this link. Pretty simple and straight forward and easy to make out of scrap wood, yes wood....

http://www.woodturnersresource.com/extras/projects/boring_bar/index.html

[Joe Landon]

Hi Dan,

Almost everything I turn are hollow forms. I have used various rigs but perfer the hand held tools. I use Trent Bosch's 5/8" straight and 5/8" bent tools mounted in his purple handle for about 90% of all my hollowing. I have the handle filled with lead shot to help with the vibration. John Jordan's tools are also a good choice.

Joe

[Bruce Pratt]

I use Ellsworth tools, w/ home-made handles to do hollow forms up to 6" diameter, ~8" depth; thin cuts with rpm at 900 or less.

Also see previous thread http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?137045-What-hollow-form-tools

Bruce

[Wally Dickerman]

Back in the dark ages when I started doing HF's there weren't any hollowing tools on the market. Okay, if I wanted to turn then I had to build my own tool. A simple boring bar. Won't work in a small opening HF, But that isn't for beginners anyway.

You'll need a 5/8 x 5/8 inch bar of mild steel, about 12 inches long, set a couple of inches into a turned handle about 18 inches long. Bore a hole in the end at about a 5 to 10 deg. angle to accept a 3/16th cutter such as is used on many hollowing tools. The cutters are available for under $5 and can be cut in half to make two of them. There are a couple of ways to install the cutter. The simplest is to use epoxy. To remove and replace the cutter, simply heat the epoxy. The other way is to drill and tap a hole for a set screw.

This tool will remove wood quickly and easily after boring a hole down the center. Cut from center out. If you have a short bed lathe such as a mini, or a sliding headstock, stand facing the piece. Tuck the tool under your forearm and against your side and cut using body motion. Any catches will be kept under control that way.

You can make this tool for under $25. I still have one and it's used in my beginning HF classes as a starter. You'll eventually graduate to another type of tool, but this one is a great one to start with.

[Bob Haverstock]

[QUOTE=Wally Dickerman;1718255]Back in the dark ages when I started doing HF's there weren't any hollowing tools on the market. Okay, if I wanted to turn then I had to build my own tool. A simple boring bar. Won't work in a small opening HF, But that isn't for beginners anyway.

You'll need a 5/8 x 5/8 inch bar of mild steel, about 12 inches long, set a couple of inches into a turned handle about 18 inches long. Bore a hole in the end at about a 5 to 10 deg. angle to accept a 3/16th cutter such as is used on many hollowing tools. The cutters are available for under $5 and can be cut in half to make two of them. There are a couple of ways to install the cutter. The simplest is to use epoxy. To remove and replace the cutter, simply heat the epoxy. The other way is to drill and tap a hole for a set screw.

Dan,

Wally hit it right on the head. Long hand held tools need long handles,ferrules, and shanks need to be set deep into the handles. If you are going to make a swan neck boring bar remember that the cutting edge if the tool needs to be on the same centerline as the shank.

Bob Haverstock

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

I also hand hollow. I do it that way because I enjoy feeling the stresses on the tool. Since I turn strictly for my own satisfaction, I am not in a hurry. I'm not sure hollowing small HF's with a hand held tool is any slower than using a rig. I too made Ellsworth style tools. I bought 3/8", 7/16", 9/16", and 1/2"bar stock. I drilled an appropriate sized hole for 1/8" or 3/16" HSS 10% cobalt cutting stock, available from Enco and drilled and tapped for a 3/16" set screw. Sharpening the tool steel when it is out of the bar is simple. I Bought a Don Pencil "arm brace" style handle and some bushings to hold the various bars. I made both straight cutters and 120 degree offset cutters. I also own a couple of John Jordan's tools but use them for larger hollow forms since mine have a 3/4" diameter bar. If you would like, PM me and I will photograph the bars I made so you can copy them.
faust

[Nate Davey]

I built my own handheld hollowers that work well up to about 8" deep. They are based on the Ellsworth hollowers, but I went with square stock and a circular cutter for the straight bar. Used squared stock and a tool bit at a 45 degree angle for the other. Them may not be as gucci as some of the articulated or captured but they work and cost me about $16.

[David E Keller]

I have several homemade hollowing tools that I made from 1/2" round cold rolled steel. I prefer to use a set screw as it makes sharpening easier for me. I bent several custom shapes for particular pieces, and they work great. I also have a Sorby swan neck midi hollower that I like, but I think I'm in the minority there. Good luck!

[Mark Levitski]

Hi Dan,

I must be in the minority too, because I did not have any trouble with hand-held hollowing. All my bad catches occurred earlier on with learning gouges. Like some others, I have some John Jordan 3/4 bars and the Don Pencil armbrace, as well as some other smaller purchased tools. Learning curve, yes, but not any more than some of our other tools. It has quelled my original knee-jerk reaction to go out and get some sort of captured rig. And unless you intend to turn deep and narrow, elongated pieces, a steady rest will not be necessary IMO.

Here are a couple examples I did with these simple tools (the table is my wie's creation). If I can do it, most anyone can............ :)

Mark

[Dan Cannon]

Thank you all very much for your replies! It sounds like there are a lot of homemade tool makers out there! Aside from some jigs and fixtures, I've not tried to make my own tools yet, and have a fair amount of doubt that I'm able. But I suppose there's only one way to find out, and it's good to hear that it may not be an overly expensive way. If that doesn't work out, or I just run out of time (patience), many of you have given me good ideas for tools to purchase. So once again, thank you all for your help!

Dan

[Steve Schlumpf]

Dan - when I started out hollowing I used the Sorby multi-tip tool and the Sorby swan neck. Both worked fine and I very seldom had any catches but what I did find was that my neck and shoulders ended up very sore after hollowing because my body was absorbing all of the rotational forces. When I decided that I wanted to continue to learn hollowing I bought the Monster captured system. Made all the difference in the world - better tool control and I was no longer sore after spending time at the lathe!

I know Randy makes handheld systems and pretty sure they interchange with the captured and articulated should you decide to upgrade at some point down the road. I also know a lot of folks have built their own system and are quite happy with them also.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do! Hollowing is an exercise in patience but the end product is worth the effort! Have fun!

[Jake Helmboldt]

Dan, you can do it. Seriously, it is pretty rudimentary toolmaking. Make a straight one (often called an Oland tool), and then make a swan neck (or an angled cutter in a straight bar like Wally suggested, which is the Ellsworth approach). The hardest part is heating the steel to bend it. Mapp gas is better than propane as the propane will take some time to heat a 1/2 or 5/8 bar enough to bend it. Drill a hole for the cutter and a couple small holes for the set screw, mount it in a handle and in a couple hours you are ready to start hollowing.

[Ian Jeffcock]

For hand held, + 1 for Trent Bosch tools.

[Jack Mincey]

I've hollowed free hand for over 5 years now and can easily hollow 8 to 9 inches deep with out much effort. All the tools I've used have been home made except for the swan neck which has been the John Jordan #1 3/4" hook tool. I have one very important thing to share. Stop and use an air hose to blow out the shavings very often when you hollow. If you don't they will stop the cutter from cutting well and even build up around the shaft of your cutter and try to spin it in your hands. I some times have to stop every couple passes to clean out the form. This is even more important as you first start to hollow a form. As you create more room inside the form this becomes less of a problem.
Turn Safe,
Jack

[John Hart]

....Stop and use an air hose to blow out the shavings very often when you hollow.....

I have to echo what Jack is saying here. Compressed air is just as important as any of your hollowing tools. I spent a couple years without it, and would clean shavings by digging them out...which isn't very effective. But you'd be surprised what a few chips will do to ruin your day!! Except maybe Keller and that Fuller guy. They turn pieces with holes as big as a Mack truck all over them. Built-in escape hatches :)

[Bill Blasic]

My choice if I were to buy a set or tool that I could use by hand or in a tool like the monster would be Kelton Hollowers or the John Jordan Hollowers. Reasonably priced tools that work very well either way and you can buy the one at a time.
Bill

[Josh Bowman]

Dan, go to Home Depot or Lowe's and get a rod of steel. Buy some bits from somewhere like Enco. Drill the the rods to except the bit and tap for an Allen screw or epoxy the bit in the hole (if you epoxy, think about how you will sharpen the bit). Start hollowing, when you can't seem to get to an area with your setup, do what Ellsworth did, bend a rod so it will access the area. Steve S. is correct the captured and articulating arm systems for the experts remove the stress to their bodies from hollowing, for beginners it also gives control by only allowing a few planes of attack, therefore less chance to catch. I have the Sorby Hollow Master and have used it some, but find the Monster is just too easy. However the Sorby and Monster use a similar bit to the below Enco's and that's a lot of the equation. Good luck, post you first hollow form soon. Also use a face shield.......just in case.
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