Buying a new table saw

[Randy Walker]

It’s time to replace my 25 year old off brand (Duracraft) contractors style table saw. It’s been a real work horse taking me from a weekend amateur, to a professional woodworker. I have a limited budget. I have to stay under $1500 including shipping. I have limited space too, so as much as I would love to get a great big extended fence it just won’t fit in my shop. I’ve been looking at the Grizzly 1023rlw and the g0690. I really like the left tilt, and riving knife features. I’ve had a few kick backs in my time and they scare the stuffens out of me every time. I also like the idea of a cabinet saw. I’ve used a couple of hybrids and they seem to be just a bit under powered and not quite heavy enough. I want a cast iron top not granite so I can use magnetic tools and fixtures. The fence needs to be solid, stable, and accurate. I really don’t like the light aluminum fences like the one on the Rigid hybrid. I have a dedicated 220, 20 amp outlet for it so power isn’t an issue.
I’m guessing there are other considerations I should include in my quest too, so I would love some suggestions and/or some critiquing on saws in this range. I’m probably going to pull the trigger on this in the next two to three weeks.

Thanks a lot
Randy Walker

[Joe Leigh]

Well, get ready for an avalanche of opinions, but the fact is you have already answered your own question. The two saws you listed are the only two real cabinet saws available delivered in that price range. Both are left tilt with riving knives. The 1023RL also has a serpentine belt and dust collection shroud which the 690 does not and is a few dollars less. There are many 1023 owners here that are very happy with their purchase.
Good luck.

[Cary Falk]

I have had the 1023rl for about 9 months and still love it. You will probably get a lot of suggestions for used but they will not have a riving knife or the dust shroud. The Grzzly is not inferior to any used Jet, Delta, Steel City, etc. despite what a lot of non-owners say. You might want to call Grizzly and check on availability. Last I heard they were out of the 1023rl or maybe it was the 1023rlw.

[Maik Tobin]

I have had the GO690 for about a year now. I bought it with the slider attachment and I absolutely love the setup. Dust collection is not awesome without an overhead hood of somekind, but I love the machine and would buy it again in a heartbeat.

[Joe Angrisani]

Randy....

Have you considered a used saw?

A early left-tilt Unisaw (circa 2002-2003) will most certainly cost less than $1000, and like most used "big tools", it will probably include some extras like a dado set or sleds/jigs. My $900 5hp/1phase Uni came with two just-resharpened plywood/melamine blades, an unused dado set, and a Porter Cable 7518 hanging under the extension table on a Jess-Em. No riving knife, but a few homemade zero clearance inserts with different height splitters solved that for me.

[Jason Dreyer]

If you want a 1023RL (or any of the other models based on the 1023) be prepared to wait a bit. I ordered mine just over a month ago, and I was told they are back-ordered until June 24th.

[David Kumm]

Used tablesaws are cheap for what you get. General 350, PM 66, Unisaw can be found on CL, Ebay and Woodweb. While left tilt is nice it isn't hard to set up the fence to use the left side of the saw rather than the right and get to the same place. Even a delta 12-14 or PM 72 can be had for $1500 and they are a big step up. Dave

[Jim O'Dell]

I have the Grizzly G0691 and love it. The 690 of course might be better for you if you don't need the long rails. I have helped a fellow Creeker set up a 1023R series, not sure which flavor, but it is very nice also. The fence on the 690/1 is decent, but I really want some long rails for my Biese and get it on the saw. But that's just me. Riving knife was critical for me, and the price was just in my sweet spot with out having to wait another year to get the new saw. I looked for a while at used, but over a year and not much worth looking at here locally, plus the fact that none of the ones being offered used had the RK. I personally don't have an issue with dust collection, but then I am running a 5 hp cyclone. You will always get some dust on top if you don't use an over head dust pick up, I don't care how much power you have in your dust collection. They are easy to make. Not sure this helps you make a decision or not. If I was choosing today with the same money constraints as I had 2 years ago, I'd still get the 691 over the 1023R. The trade off is the blade shroud DC hookup over dumping into the cabinet on the 691 vs the DC hook up being on the right side of the cabinet and on a separate door making a modification for a 6" hook up a piece of cake vs a 4" port on, I believe, the back side that is welded into the cabinet and thus a lot harder to enlarge. Other differences are minor. Jim.

[Randy Walker]

Thanks for the incite
Sorry about being so long in getting back to re-post I am pretty busy these days (bid on 25 tables and 2 big signs with more work coming behind it). I can wait a few weeks if necessary to get the right saw. I have looked locally for about 3 months and the used market just doesn’t seem to have what I really want. I will be using this machine regularly for a long time, so I really don’t think getting something that is not what I want is a good idea. I think the riving knife is important for my own safety too. I will be connecting it to a 1 ½ hp jet dust dog dust collector. It does a pretty good job of picking up from most of my machines. It will do a better job on the cabinet saw than the open back of my contractors saw.
I would really like to here about the differences/similarities between the 690 and the 1023 in use. In the catalog they sound a lot alike, but how are they in real life though. How does the power of the 3 hp motor do on large hard woods like 2 ½” inch 100 year old heart pine and maple. That’s what my next will be made of.

Still thinking
Randy Walker

[Cary Falk]

Randy,
In real life, you will see very little difference in operation of these saws. They are both 3hp LT cabinet saws. The internals are slightly different. The fences are slightly different but both are Beisemeyer clones. The motors are sinilar in specs but both Asian even though the 690 has a Leeson tag on it. The 1023RL may have a little better DC but you still need an over blade DC to catch everything. The 3hp will handle anything you can throw at it with a 10" blade. Mine has never bogged down and I have ripped Hickory with a 40 tooth WWII.There are happy people in both camps. I think there are more people in the 690 camp because it has been out a year or 2 longer.

[James Malcolm]

I'm very happy with my 690. I selected it over the 1023 for the increased cutting range 8" left / 26" right for a 1023 vs 12" left / 29.5" for a 690. I preferred the fence on the 690 because it has a pair of slide pads on the outside while the fence on the 1023 just has the clamping lever. At the store, these extra pads seemed to keep the fence more square to the blade while moving it and allowed it to glide more easily. What I don't like about the fence on the 690 is that the plastic pads that the board rides against weren't even remotely close to being flat. Quite horrible actually, but easily fixed. Add in the Leeson motor (more efficient) and the extension table included with the 690 and I saw enough value to spend the extra $125. Frankly I don't think you can go wrong either way.

[glenn bradley]

You will probably get a lot of suggestions for used but they will not have a riving knife . . .


Randy.... Have you considered a used saw?

:D:D:D:D That got me. Coffee on the monitor.

[Randy Walker]

I have more new work coming in and I am going to require more space. That means I am going to have to move the shop to the garage where I have more room. That extra space will let me get the longer rails that I really wanted (If I can shake a few $$ lose from the budget). I am now leaning heavily toward the 691. I understand the dust collection may not be as good but the extra cutting room on both sides of the fence will be very useful. Lots of good input here. It has really helped me focus my thoughts. I have used many different saws over the years and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. I’m sure there are some to go with these saws too.

Still reading
Randy Walker

[Joe Angrisani]

Randy.... Have you considered a used saw?


:D:D:D:D That got me. Coffee on the monitor.

I'm guessing "that got you" BEFORE you read my whole post. The part you edited out said....


.....No riving knife, but a few homemade zero clearance inserts with different height splitters solved that for me.

Which, clearly, addressed his comment about a riving knife while also taking his budget comment into account. Sorry. You didn't read my whole post. No quadruple-guffaw for you today.... :cool::cool::cool::cool:

[Neil Brooks]

[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]That means I am going to have to move the shop to the garage where I have more room. That extra space will let me get the longer rails that I really wanted (If I can shake a few $$ lose from the budget). I am now leaning heavily toward the 691. I understand the dust collection may not be as good but the extra cutting room on both sides of the fence will be very useful.

I THINK you're considering a great saw.

How important is the % of dust collected ... to YOU ?

There are more than a few ways -- including shop-built -- to introduce an overhead DC attachment to most cabinet saws ... IF you feel the need to do so.

But I doubt you'd find much to gripe about with either the 1023 series OR the 690/691.

Glad to hear you're keeping busy. Sincerely. Yours sounds like a fairly good problem to be sorting out :)

[Jason Dreyer]

If you want a 1023RL (or any of the other models based on the 1023) be prepared to wait a bit. I ordered mine just over a month ago, and I was told they are back-ordered until June 24th.

In case anyone is still considering a 1023... Got a postcard from Grizzly saying that my item was even more back-ordered than before. So I called them, and they said it won't be in until July 29th. :(

[Cary Falk]

In case anyone is still considering a 1023... Got a postcard from Grizzly saying that my item was even more back-ordered than before. So I called them, and they said it won't be in until July 29th. :(


Which one? There for awhile the G1023RLW was backordered but the G1023RL was available.

[David Kumm]

Actually the old Olivers had riving knives. There may have been others as well on the more commercial saws ie. Tannewitz, Northfield etc. They are not a new invention. Dave

[Jason Dreyer]

Which one? There for awhile the G1023RLW was backordered but the G1023RL was available.

I ordered just the 1023RL, but when they told me it was out of stock, I asked about all of the other 1023-based machines, and they didn't have any of them. 1023RLW, 1023RLWX, 1023RLW.

[Randy Walker]

Oooo, back ordered that’s not what I want to hear. I wish I was ready to buy right now but I absolutely have to complete these tables to make sure the cash is actually there. I think I will call Grizz tomorrow and ask about availability on both the 690s and the 1023s. While I’m not in a rush to get the saw I don’t want to wait months for them to get something to sell (not that I have a choice lol).

Neil you asked about dust collection. I really want below the table collection but above the table is something that I may try to implement when I move to the garage later this summer. Without changing the discussion, I am one of those guys’s that really don’t like the blade guards. I build a lot of different kinds of things and I may change from sheet goods to fine trim two or three times in one day when I am doing case work. Messing around with changing from guard to splitter and back just wont be on my list of things likely to happen.

David I have read about some of the older industrial saw having riving knives but I have never seen one. If one were to be available within a couple of hundred miles I would probably seriously consider it, since I could pick it up myself.


Back to the shop
Randy Walker

[David Kumm]

Randy, I don't know where you are at but look at Oliver 270 or 88. Rich Fink at oliver can tell you if the saw you are looking at has a riving knife. I am not familiar enough with Northfields but Jeff at northfield can also answer that question. Dave

[Randy Walker]

Well its done. I ordered the 690 tonight http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon7.png . I picked the 690 over the 1023 because of the extra table space to the right of the blade. I have been building quite a few bar tops and tables lately and that 30 inch space has been very helpfull on my current saw.
I am having it delivered to a friends shop where I can use his fork
truck to unlode it. Then I can break it down to pieces that I can manage on my own.

Randy Walker

[Doug Colombo]

Congrats on the purchase !!!! I am sure you will really enjoy the saw !

[Brent Ring]

No One suggested a slider. I love my Grizzly623x! And the Euro owners I am sure do too!

[Rod Sheridan]

No One suggested a slider. I love my Grizzly623x! And the Euro owners I am sure do too!

I didn't suggest a Euro slider because the accessory cost on mine was greater than the OP's entire budget.

I'm sure he'll eventually progress in that direction, as a business time and accuracy are money for him.

regards, Rod.

[Jim O'Dell]

Congrats! I'm sure you will love the 690 as much as I do my 691. Jim.

[Karl Card]

In my humble opinion I think you have already stated what you want and I feel that is a good decision. I to was going to buy that saw until I came across an old Delta 34-350. I think you will be very happy with the Grizzly saw.

[Randy Walker]

I considered the slider but my little shop just doesent have the space, and realy insn't in my buget right now. When I move to the garage or into a seperate shop I may add it. I also gave serious consideration to the router table, but I think the one I built is enough for now.
Up next I will probably buy a Woodmaster 3875, 38 inch drum sander later this month. I build a lot of tables, bar tops and doors. A big sander will save me TONS of sanding time.

Raandy Walker

[Randy Walker]

Well my saw arrived last Monday and I have been chomping at the bit to get it to my place and set it up, but I have too much work in the way right now. It will be late next week before I have time to set it up (can't hardley wait). In the mean time my old contractors saw gets one last project.

Randy Walker

[Randy Walker]

FINALY got my new saw set up and running. I spent most of yesterday assembeling my new Grizzly G0690. Everything went smoothly except for the pre-assembled front fence rail. The screws holding it togather were stripped from the factory. I called Grizzly and they said they will ship one out on Tuesday. In the mean time I went ahead and tapped the holes for over size screws and went on assembeling the saw. Other than that little problem every thing went smoothly. Only minor adjustments were requiored to get dead on accurate possisioning on the fence which glides effortsly across the rails. The fit and finish are great, although I would have liked to have leveling feet as my floor is kind of waivey. When I hit the power button it was like firing up a race car when compaired to my old contractors saw. Overall I am very pleased with my purchase and the entire purchasing experiance.

[scott spencer]

Congrats on the new saw Randy! I know you've been too busy for pics, so here's a loaner I stumbled across until you can take some of your own! :D

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/hewood/sawparts/0690.jpg

[Jim O'Dell]

Congrats Randy! You will enjoy that saw every time you turn it on....I know from experience from it's longer armed brother.:D Jim.

[Randy Walker]

Thanks for the loaner Scott. When I finish cleaning my shop this weekend I’ll try to post one of my new baby. I didn’t get a mobile base and I prefer to go bare back (no blade guard just the riving knife). Which is one of the primary reasons I bought this tool when I could have easily gotten a better deal on a used cabinet saw without the riving knife.
I have been so inspired by all of the great work that all of you have posted. Thank you for your help in choosing my new saw.
Randy Walker