I'm looking for a better square

[scott vroom]

I've been using rafter squares to square up cabinet casing. The ones I buy at the BORG are accurate for awhile but tend to get out of square quickly. Does anyone know where I can find a sturdy rafter sized square of high quality? I'm thinking the ideal tool would be designed like a carpenter's speed square (typuically max of 12 inches) but larger like a framing square (typically 16 x 24 inches).

rafter square and speed square:

[John Coloccia]

I've been using rafter squares to square up cabinet casing. The ones I buy at the BORG are accurate for awhile but tend to get out of square quickly. Does anyone know where I can find a sturdy rafter sized square of high quality? I'm thinking the ideal tool would be designed like a carpenter's speed square (typuically max of 12 inches) but larger like a framing square (typically 16 x 24 inches).

rafter square and speed square:

Starrett makes some. I'm not sure of their quality though I'm guessing it will be better than anything you get at the BORG. If yours are straight, but they're just out of square, they can be fixed. Just tap it back into square near the 90 degree angle. That's a pretty common occurrence. I've been squaring mine up for the last 10 years.

Here's the actual procedure:
http://zo-d.com/stuff/how-do-i/how-to-check-and-adjust-a-framing-square.html

[george wilson]

The OLD rafter squares had ground edges. They are all stamped out these days,as far as I can recall. my own large squares for serious work are large machinist's squares. However,they cost new thousands of dollars( I got mine used!) They are also quite heavy,and really intended for work around milling machines,and layout for metal work. You don't want to slip and drop one on your wooden project.

[Bruce Page]

Scott, I have this one: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32587&cat=1,42936,42944
It's not cheap but it is by far the best one I have ever used. I even use it in the metal machining side of my shop. The markings are photo-engraved and very easy to read.

[Paul Steiner]

What about a craftsman? I have a craftsman framing square and it is a little bit higher quality than one from a BORG. But craftsman guarantees handtools for life and will switch you out with a new one no questions asked. So at least you could get a new one if if goes out of square.

[Jamie Buxton]

If what you want is a bigger speed square (that is, you don't need the inside edge of the carpenters square), you can build one from wood. Start with a triangle of good plywood like baltic birch. Add solid-lumber edging. Test it, and tune it if necessary with a handplane or jointer. I've got one that's about 3' by 4' that I use for setting up a track saw to cut plywood for cabinets. It is within 20 mils of 90 degrees in that 4' length. That's an error of less than .02 degrees. It has stayed stable for years.

[Tom McMahon]

I use a 24" drafting triangle.
http://www.cutting-mats.net/2340.html

[Steve Jenkins]

i have a typical borg type aluminum carpenters square that I Squared up the inside corner then put it on my sliding table saw and trimmed the outside to square it. worked great.

[Jim Matthews]

Tom's suggestion is downright clever. I would get one with some color in the plastic, so I could find it after I put it down.

Put a little foam tape on one side, and it won't slide, either.

No way would I bring a high dollar LV tool to the job site - that's too much temptation for the mooks I work with to bear.

[glenn bradley]

Sort of like Steve, I have a pair of steel framer's squares. One I squared for inside and one for outside.

[Jay Jolliffe]

Pinnacle T-Square @ Woodcraft

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

Take a look on the Woodpeckers website (maker of Pinnacle). You can get both carpenter's square and speed squares. I have the 4" and 6" triangles and their older 12" speed square (they also have an 18" speed square).

The quality is fantastic. Not cheap but I find them indispensable.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Sadly - the late Nissim Avrahami's excellent tutorial on making large triangles has been lost because he uploaded it to photobucket (or similar) and not to SMC.
In it, he gave step by step instructions in his typical easy to follow way.

This was one of the things he'd made that I was looking for not too long ago. I found the thread, but, the pictures/instructions are lost forever.

Sorry for ths slightly OT drift - but - if anyone has them I'm sure Nissim would be happy to have them back in circulation - giving due credit of course.

Man - I sure miss that guy. He was a one of a kind & one heck of a nice guy.

[Larry Edgerton]

Scott

Its quite simple to adjust a framing square. I have about a dozen, and I rotate them from the good to bad spot in the shop, and once in a while adjust a few. I am sure you can find a tutorial, but basically you stretch either the inside corner or the outside with a hammer to get it back to square. It only takes just a couple of minutes, but you do need a reference. I bought a big machinists square like George was talking about used. But there is another method if you do not have a reference square.....

You can also check a square pretty close by itself. Use a known straight edge piece if sheet stock, lay the square on the edge, draw a line, flip the square in the other direction and draw a line from the same starting point. Any difference is "HALF", that being important to keep in mind when you correct, of what the square is off. Get it square and gently touch the edges with a file, and you are good to go for another round.

Larry

[Paul McGaha]

Scott,

Woodpecker's has what looks to be a really nice 24" Square.

I've got one on order but havent received it yet.

It is a little pricey.

PHM

[Byron Trantham]

Scott,
I ran into the same problem about a year ago. I had no idea my square wasn't! I used a technique posted here and found out it was waaaay out of square! I bent it into a accordion and looked for a new one. After reading a bunch I found out that there are about three categories. $10-$15 (Borg stuff), $50-$80 (Lee Valley stuff) and $200-$300 (sterrett stuff). I opted for the middle road. It isn't perfect but usable; maybe a pencil mark off in 24".

[Greg Hines, MD]

You have until May 30th to order one of these. I have the 6" version, and it is very well made, and Richard from Woodpeckers is good to work with.

http://www.woodpeck.com/2616squarewp.html

[scott vroom]

No way would I bring a high dollar LV tool to the job site - that's too much temptation for the mooks I work with to bear.

LOL.....I know what you mean. My crew is my son and it takes him about 5 minutes on a jobsite to step on and bend it or coat the edges and obliterate the markings with thinset/concrete. We're on our third BORG framing square this year. If I buy an expensive square for the woodworking shop it's gonna stay in the shop :)

[scott vroom]

Take a look on the Woodpeckers website (maker of Pinnacle). You can get both carpenter's square and speed squares. I have the 4" and 6" triangles and their older 12" speed square (they also have an 18" speed square).

The quality is fantastic. Not cheap but I find them indispensable.

Looks like they no longer sell an 18" speed square?

[Jay Jeffery]

The aluminum speed squares made by Empire are quite a bit better than the other BORG squares. Some places even have them in bright colors, like the Craftsman they sell at Sears. The edges are cut, not stamped or cast and accurate enough for really any woodworking operation. For machine set up, Starret may be the way to go.

[Cary Falk]

Looks like they no longer sell an 18" speed square?

They closed out the 18" speed square at the beginning of the year. They then took special orders for them in April. They will ship in June. They will most likely offer them again for a limited time. If you are on their mailing list you get preorder announcements.

[Curt Harms]

I bought a borg framing square that checks nicely against the Lee Valley square that Bruce links to above. I went to a Lowes that had about 2 dozen framing squares. Found what I thought was a flat surface about 4' long and started comparing squares back to back. I went through most of the pile but found two that when stood back to back touched their entire length without overlapping. My thinking was that the likelihood of finding two squares with exactly complementary errors was pretty remote so if they agreed with one another, they were pretty accurate.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I'd go with what Paul said and get a Craftsman, NOT because they are accurate, but because they give you a new one if you break/bend it. I dropped my 4" combo square, and of course they gave me a new one. You did say framing right? No need for supreme accuracy IMO. Put it on the ground and use the tiles (if they have tiles) to find a straight one.

[Ray DuBose]

I don't use large squares very often but I have been wanting to make one of the squares Chris Schwarz found an antique of and put together plans for. http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/free-plan-english-layout-square