Funeral Urns

[Dick Wilson]

John,

You bring up a topic in a previous post that I have been pondering. I have paid attention any time I see them and all I see is volume in cubic inches. That does not compute. Call me math challenged but my right brain doesn't think like that. What I need is height, width, wall thickness to turn any hollow form. How big should the opening in the top be? The other thing is the cap. It is my understanding that the cap must be a screw on top. I have never chased threads and besides that my lathe will not go slow enough to do that. 450RPM is a tad fast I think. People have used PVC threads.

If you and others who have turned urns for individuals or funeral homes I would appreciate input on dimensions etc. Thanks

[philip labre]

Dick, on the ones I'be done, I used ABS pipe fittings. They are the black fittings. As far as dimensions... I used formulas on line and screwed it up, so hope you have better luck than me.

[Dan Hintz]

Dick,

Since you're dealing in turned forms and not flatwork, you need to modify your coordinate system if you want things to be a little easier. Using the rule of thumb of 1 cubic inch of space per pound of person, a 200 pound person needs 200 cubic inches of space. With flat work that's a (roughly) 6" cube... (6x6x6=216).

For turned forms, think in terms of radius or diameter of the inner portion (wall thickness will be irrelevant and you can therefore ignore it and make things as thick/thin as you want). Since diameter is easier to measure on a hole, we'll use that (area of hole = pi/4 * d * d, then multiply that by your depth to get cubic area). For example, a 6" diameter hole has an area of 28 square inches (pi/4 * 6 * 6 = 28)... at 7" deep, that's (roughly) 192 cubic inches (28 * 7).

Make a chart for some common sizes you'd create and hang it on a wall next to the lathe if you need to.

[Gary Max]

Or----you use 300 cubic inchs of unpopped popcorn and is long as it fills your HF you should be good to go. Now all I need is to know how many cups that is-----------:)

[John Keeton]

I have used grass seed to measure volume only because that is what I had handy - rice is a better option. Gary, a cup is approximately 14.5 cu. inches.

Dan's comments are appropriate, but relate more to a cylinder and do not account for forms we typically turn on a lathe.

There seems to be an "industry standard" of around 200 cu. in. As I understand the process of cremation, cremains consist only of the heavy skeletal remains, teeth, etc. The softer portions of the skeleton and all the flesh/organs, etc. are gone. The cremains are pulverized to create the "dust" or cremains as one thinks of them. So, when we talk about the ashes, there are none until the skeletal remains are pulverized. Using that rationale, there should be little difference in the volume of cremains from a 200 lb. male of normal weight, and a 350 lb. male of similar height, but obese. Both should be around 200 cu. inches. I don't have any particular knowledge in this area, but this is what I understand from what little research I have done, and from talking with a funeral director.

This is an interesting thread, Dick, and I look forward to seeing what you get in the way of responses.

[Dick Wilson]

Dick,

Since you're dealing in turned forms and not flatwork, you need to modify your coordinate system if you want things to be a little easier. Using the rule of thumb of 1 cubic inch of space per pound of person, a 200 pound person needs 200 cubic inches of space. With flat work that's a (roughly) 6" cube... (6x6x6=216).

For turned forms, think in terms of radius or diameter of the inner portion (wall thickness will be irrelevant and you can therefore ignore it and make things as thick/thin as you want). Since diameter is easier to measure on a hole, we'll use that (area of hole = pi/4 * d * d, then multiply that by your depth to get cubic area). For example, a 6" diameter hole has an area of 28 square inches (pi/4 * 6 * 6 = 28)... at 7" deep, that's (roughly) 192 cubic inches (28 * 7).

Make a chart for some common sizes you'd create and hang it on a wall next to the lathe if you need to.

HUH????:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::ee k::eek:

[Bob Haverstock]

Hi Dick,

I'm not too big on formulas and such. This is my approach. I finish the vessel and line it with a new trash bag. I have saved a liter soda bottle ( a liter is 61 cubis inches). I fill the lined vessel with water, on the bottom of the vessel I record the volume to the nearest quarter liter. With just a bit of practice, you will develope a feel for volume.

Bob Haverstock

[Dick Wilson]

I have used grass seed to measure volume only because that is what I had handy - rice is a better option. Gary, a cup is approximately 14.5 cu. inches.

Dan's comments are appropriate, but relate more to a cylinder and do not account for forms we typically turn on a lathe.

There seems to be an "industry standard" of around 200 cu. in. As I understand the process of cremation, cremains consist only of the heavy skeletal remains, teeth, etc. The softer portions of the skeleton and all the flesh/organs, etc. are gone. The cremains are pulverized to create the "dust" or cremains as one thinks of them. So, when we talk about the ashes, there are none until the skeletal remains are pulverized. Using that rationale, there should be little difference in the volume of cremains from a 200 lb. male of normal weight, and a 350 lb. male of similar height, but obese. Both should be around 200 cu. inches. I don't have any particular knowledge in this area, but this is what I understand from what little research I have done, and from talking with a funeral director.

This is an interesting thread, Dick, and I look forward to seeing what you get in the way of responses.

Ok, let's see if I can think this through. Oh my, a rich growing medium, grass seed, and humidity...............:eek::eek::(;););)

[Dick Wilson]

Ok folks, Think of a John Jordan bottle with a top. For 200-250 cubic inches - how tall and how wide. I don't want to custom turn every urn based on male/female or deceased persons height.

[Dennis Ford]

Ok folks, Think of a John Jordan bottle with a top. For 200-250 cubic inches - how tall and how wide. I don't want to custom turn every urn based on male/female or deceased persons height.

8" dia, 8" tall (inside) should get you in the ball park for this shape.

[Greg Just]

Dick:

If you were to build an open cube with internal demensions of 4 5/8 inches wide x 4 5/8 inches deep and 4 5/8 inches high, that would approximately be 100 cubic inches (slightly less). Use this to measure out 200-250 cubic inches of popcorn. Through trial and error, you can hollow out your piece until you can fit the desired amount of popcorn in it. It would be hard to give you exact demensions as each urn will have a different shape.

Hope this helps.

[Jeff Moffett]

Dick, I have not made an urn but would like to, so I appreciate you starting this thread. I looked at a few urn websites (like this one (http://urnseller.com/bronze-vase-urns-c-63_68.html?page=1)) to get an idea of common round urn sizes. The linked site gives the outside dimensions as well as the capacity. Many of them seem to be in the neighborhood of 10"x6", so Dennis' suggestion of 8"x8" appears to be a good starting point based on my research.

[Richard Madden]

Although I have made a few urn-type vessels and checked the volume on all of them, I'm no authority on the subject, but Mike Mahoney has made many and in his video
"Hollow Forms and Urns" he suggests starting with a piece of wood 10"x10"x7", or 10" round and 7" tall. He also suggests making urns oversized. I think these are good
numbers to start with, but obviously the finished shape, like how much taper at the base, is going to affect final volume. Going oversized is probably the best advice.

[Terry Rasmussen]

The local funeral director gave me a temporary container to use as the basis for sizing the urn I made two months ago. It measured about 240 cu in. I used a box for design....10" high x 7" dia. It fit nicely inside the burial vault.

[Jerry Lawrence]

"Since diameter is easier to measure on a hole, we'll use that (area of hole = pi/4 * d * d"
Dan, just curious...why pi/4*d*d instead of the more common pi*r squared? Same result, one less step (unless of course you just memorize what pi/4 is..lol).

[Dan Hintz]

Dan, just curious...why pi/4*d*d instead of the more common pi*r squared? Same result, one less step (unless of course you just memorize what pi/4 is..lol).
Because it's easier to measure the diameter of a circle while it's sitting on the lathe than the radius... try correctly locating the center of a hole sometime, you'll see ;)

[Rich Aldrich]

Dick - Another idea would be to see if one of the funeral homes in your area would let you measure one of the urns they have. You could vary the dimensions from that to make sure you have the volume and to obtain a shape (form) that you want to make. You could measure the OD every inch or 1/2" of height an get a fair idea of the size and shape.

[Michael Armstrong]

Hmmmmmm diameter/2 = radius - just sayin'.

Michael

[Dan Hintz]

Hmmmmmm diameter/2 = radius - just sayin'.
Yep... elephants are gray - just sayin'. ;)