General Rules of Thumb for Pedestal Sizes??

[Nate Davey]

What are some of the "Rules of Thumb" used for pedestal hight and diameter? I am working on a lidded bowl and would like to do a finial and pedestal for it.

[John Keeton]

Nate, that is a tough one!! It will depend a lot on the form you use, and what you hope to achieve in the overall character of the piece. I would think more definitive "rules" or ideas could be stated with regard to the elements of a pedestal and finial, and with regard to the proportionate size of them as they relate to each other - i.e., most "embellishments" look better at 2/3 the height (or 1/3 depending on the design), and replication of elements from the pedestal to the finial seems to produce an attractive result. In addition, the elements often look more balanced if they progressively reduce in size and mass as they ascend the piece.

For the forms I do (3" - 6" in diameter), the smallest diameter on a pedestal is usually around .12", and the smallest diameter on the finial is around .06-.08". However, those dimensions may look out of place on a larger form, or one that has a particular shape.

There is usually a relationship between the height of the base, form and finial, but that to depends on the overall style. Generally, I would think a finial would be about 2/3 the height of the pedestal, but that is subject to a lot of factors.

FWIW, those are some thoughts. They may or may not be helpful.

[Scott Hackler]

I try to imagine the entire piece (finial excluded most times) into thirds. For me, I am pleased with 2 thirds height for the vessel and one third pedestal IF the vessel in larger or fat. If it is a delicate flower or cup form, I use the opposite. 1 third height for the cup and 2 thirds for the stem/pedestal. I dont always get it 100% but this formula works pretty decent for my work.

[Scott Hackler]

John beat me too it!!! I forgot about the thickness. I follow as much a slow graceful curve from the sides of the vessel to the edge of the foot, as I can. I am drawn towards thin in the middle (leaning heavy to fragile looking) but that could me my personal taste.

[Nate Davey]

Thanks John,

The form I would like to embellish is 8" Dia x 2" tall and looks something like this 196599

The bottom is an ogee, but don't have a pic of it.

[John Keeton]

Nate, a profile shot would be much more helpful, as that is about the only way to get a good idea of proportions. My inital thought is that you will need to keep this one pretty low, or it will look very unbalanced and unstable. In addition, the mass of any pedestal would need to be fairly heavy. I would lean toward a knob vs. a finial for this one, or at the very least, a shorter and more massive finial design more akin to a knob. This is a functional piece, and it needs to reflect that. A piece that is exclusively an art object can have a much more fragile and delicate feel to it.

[Nate Davey]

Thanks John, here is the side view, the pic doesn't seem to show the curves, makes it look more angular. I was also thinking of a shorter, more substantial pedestal, but hadn't given a significant amount of thought to the finial yet. I understand the shapes should mirror each other to some extent. I was also contemplating blackening the edge of the bowl like I did the lid and wanted to do the finial and pedestal in black. Would the edge be too much?

196604

[John Hart]

Nate,
I took the liberty (before you posted the profile pic) of taking one of my bowls
196605

Then I superimposed your bowl's wood (poorly) and gave it a lid
196608

Then I messed around with the pedestal length
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Then I messed around with the base diameter
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Dunno...maybe you can get a feel for something.

Let me know if you want an adjustment made anywhere. I'll keep my pieces in photoshop where I can make changes and plug them in

[John Hart]

196609
Ok..here it is with the right bowl.

[John Keeton]

I really like this last post by Hart - and, if one did a knob that was a reverse of the pedestal bottom (flared) I think you would have a very nice piece! The thinnest part of the knob would need to be just a bit thinner than the thin portion of the pedestal IMO.

I would not blacken the rim, but you need to satisfy your need for artistic impression and not be too concerned about the taste of others.

[Don Alexander]

theres rules to this ? :eek: shoot now ya all tell me :D

[John Hart]

Don brings up a good point...even though in jest.....I would like to say something about "rules". Artistic woodturning is a free-form medium. Art itself is the act of free expression. To be told to conform to rules, is an act of trying to get someone to do something that conforms to your set of free expression rules. It is true that the majority of people find certain things to be "Beautiful", and there are mathematical equations that have defined those "standards". However, I have found that tactile contact can make a deviant form more appealing. And also..."Beauty to the majority" means there are 2 billion people on the planet that would find the deviant form pleasing.
I had a professional art critic pick up one of my dopey multi-species, goof-ball vases, that most of the folks kinda raised their eyebrows to....and she said, "oooh...This piece speaks to me"

I'm not saying that I have it all figured out. Nope...far from it. But as you traverse this dynamic field, don't forget yourself. Let your pieces become a portrait of who you are.

[Michael James]

I had a professional art critic pick up one of my dopey multi-species, goof-ball vases, that most of the folks kinda raised their eyebrows to....and she said, "oooh...This piece speaks to me"

I'm not saying that I have it all figured out. Nope...far from it. But as you traverse this dynamic field, don't forget yourself. Let your pieces become a portrait of who you are.
John did she say what it said??? :eek:

I vote for a nice proportioned finial and skip the pedastel on this one. But as has been mentioned, it's not really about me or my vote. I favor imitation as skill building the same way a musician uses scales, sequences, motifs and other devices to gain experience in one's ear (eye in this case) and hands. Then, and only then can you get past luck, and be able to predict the outcome of your efforts. Unless of course you are one of those phenomenally gifted artists that pick up the basics and go straight into the art zone.

Great question, great answers, and as always "something" to think about!
mj

ps - like the piece!

[David E Keller]

....and she said, "oooh...This piece speaks to me...

I think MJ is on to something. She's very likely off her meds and may be prone to violent mood swings... Don't make any sudden movements or loud noises around her. If she attacks, you're only option is to act more crazy, and that's not 100% reliable. Be careful, John.:p

[John Keeton]

If she attacks, you're only option is to act more crazy, and that's not 100% reliable. Be careful, John.:pShould be easy - Hart has been practicing this for years. Comes second nature most of the time!

[John Hart]

Oh sure...make fun of the little carnival monkey!! :)

....'Course, now that I think about it, there were some strange sounds coming from the basement. Kind of a moaning, squeaking, rattling.....

....nah....probably just mice. ;)