About to throw my JJP-12 through the window...

[John Coloccia]

...or would but it's too dang heavy. I'm starting to despise my JJP-12. It doesn't seem to matter what I do lately, but no matter what I adjust to get the thing working perfectly, it immediately drifts out of adjustment in short order. I'm tired of adjusting this stupid thing...just sick to death of it!

Anyone else have persistent issues? Anyone else feeling like they wish someone would come steal it so you can get something that works?

It seemed to be fine for the first couple of years but I'm pulling my hair out and wasting FAR too much time adjusting machinery and far too little time working. It's actually become a problem and is affecting my work.

The planing side of it seems okay at the moment. It's really the tables that just don't seem right anymore. There's always something out. Anyone have any suggestions? I'm thinking of picking up a small, conventional jointer just for edge work but the last thing I need in my shop is more machinery!

[Larry Edgerton]

Dang! I was hoping there was a video......

[glenn bradley]

Well this stinks. What does Jet say? I think that is a p-bed machine so unless something is moving that shouldn't . . . oh wait, that was stupid of me :o. Of course something is moving that shouldn't, otherwise it would stay aligned. It seems to me several folks on here went with this machine. Maybe change the thread title to (or start another thread with) "Anyone Having JJP-12 Alignment Problems"? It would be good to know of other's experiences. If it is a known issue, then that's painful but, you'll know to stop trying to make it right. If there is a known fix, this could be your fastest way to get past the issue and get back to what you want to be doing. Please keep us posted.

[John Coloccia]

I plan on contacting them in the morning, Glenn. Obviously something has come loose, bent, broken, cracked or something somewhere in the works. I don't think it's a bad machine. It was fine for years but it's giving me fits now.

[Wes Grass]

Assuming you're not moving it ... I'm clueless.

My 16" Felder can't tolerate being moved on my horrible garage floor. Contemplating spending a couple weeks of my time making some self leveling hydraulic feet for it. Seems easier than grinding the floor flat.

[Bill Huber]

I plan on contacting them in the morning, Glenn. Obviously something has come loose, bent, broken, cracked or something somewhere in the works. I don't think it's a bad machine. It was fine for years but it's giving me fits now.

Well I wouldn't call them, I would just junk it. I will be by next week and haul it off for you and then you can get a new one.....:D:D

[scott vroom]

Wow...this is monumental. Someone having a problem with a machine and it's not a Grizzly! How can that be?

(winks at the Grizzly bashers...you know who you are).

[John Coloccia]

Wow...this is monumental. Someone having a problem with a machine and it's not a Grizzly! How can that be?

(winks at the Grizzly bashers...you know who you are).


Maybe Shiraz will fix it anyway, just to be on the safe side.

:D

[Joseph Tarantino]

wow, not exactly an inexpensive piece of machinery. good luck with resolving the issue. i'm sure jet will deliver the best support they can.

[michael case]

John your on to something. Bake a green powder coat on it - then post a rant about Grizzly and China.

[glenn bradley]

come loose, bent, broken, cracked or something somewhere in the works.

I hadn't thought of that. A crack or some other failing that allowed movement without actually dropping off with a clunk sounds like a good theory.


Well I wouldn't call them, I would just junk it. I will be by next week and haul it off for you and then you can get a new one.....:D:D

Not if I get there first! Oh wait . . . Bill is much closer. No fair.

[glenn bradley]

Wow...this is monumental. Someone having a problem with a machine and it's not a Grizzly! How can that be?

(winks at the Grizzly bashers...you know who you are).

:D:D:D Good one. I sometimes think the mayo and mustard owners are like MAC owners . . . its as if nothing ever goes wrong with them ;););)

[Steve Rowe]

John,
I don't have a Jet J/P but do have experience with both Felder and MM J/P. You really haven't been specific on what is out but based on the info you have provided, I would surmize it is a looseness somewhere in the table hinges, locking mechanism or table stops. Check these areas first and make sure your table is locked down securely. If it is not obvious, I would call Jet as I recall, they have a fairly long warranty.
Steve

[Kent Chasson]

Mine is new and my tables won't stay co-planer either. There's just too much slop. For critical joining, we get out the straight edge and fine tune the table by lifting one end. No joke. It stays long enough to do the job. At some point, I might take the whole thing apart and see if it can be improved. Maybe some shimming in the table slots? I haven't looked at it that closely yet.

If this isn't bad enough, the tables were not flat either. But that was the one advantage of those stupid ridges. I was able to flatten them myself with a friend and a large granite surface plate. Mine came with a bad motor to boot but they sent me a new one.

I think you do have to know going into it that this machine is a compromise. I looked at the Hammer but helical cutters were not an option as far as I could tell.

The planer works great and the switchover is a breeze. Now that my tables are flat, I'd be well pleased if I could get the stupid thing to stay true.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Kent, yes it's possible to have a Hammer J/P with helical cutters.

I have the straight knife version, great machine.............Regards, Rod.

[John Coloccia]

Mine is new and my tables won't stay co-planer either. There's just too much slop. For critical joining, we get out the straight edge and fine tune the table by lifting one end. No joke. It stays long enough to do the job. At some point, I might take the whole thing apart and see if it can be improved. Maybe some shimming in the table slots? I haven't looked at it that closely yet.

If this isn't bad enough, the tables were not flat either. But that was the one advantage of those stupid ridges. I was able to flatten them myself with a friend and a large granite surface plate. Mine came with a bad motor to boot but they sent me a new one.

I think you do have to know going into it that this machine is a compromise. I looked at the Hammer but helical cutters were not an option as far as I could tell.

The planer works great and the switchover is a breeze. Now that my tables are flat, I'd be well pleased if I could get the stupid thing to stay true.

Well, I've been experimenting. My original tables were not flat either. Jet set out a new machine, and he tables were flat to begin with.

What's happening, I think, is that the tables are just too flimsy. I can torque them into "flat", and then I let them sit overnight and they relax into a different position. I'm chasing my tail trying to get these things to just stay put because no matter what I do, by the next morning they've settled into a new position.

Right now, I've gone back to edge jointing by hand, but what an enormous waste of time when I have a machine sitting right here that's supposed to do it. Again, everything was fine for a good while and then it started giving me trouble. If you find a way to modify it to get things to stay put, I'd love to hear about it.

[Mark Carlson]

I have the Hammer J/P with the byrd head. The machine comes over with straight knives and head gets swapped out in Delaware before it ships to you.

~mark


Hi Kent, yes it's possible to have a Hammer J/P with helical cutters.

I have the straight knife version, great machine.............Regards, Rod.

[Kent Chasson]

Rod and Mark, thanks for the correction on the Hammer. Nothing on their site I could find.

John, I was just out using mine and it took me about 5 minutes to dial it in. At first check, the infeed table dropped about .003" in 2 feet. Instead of fussing with the coplaner adjustments again, I lifted up on the end of the table. It came up and stayed long enough to make the cut. But I'm joining short, light pieces of wood. Probably wouldn't stay for anything long and heavy.

I'm pretty sure it's slop in the ways (or whatever you call them on this type of machine). But there is also a problem with the mechanism that clamps the table back down after planing. The harder you torque the cam clamp, the farther down you pull the table on that side.

I figured there were going to be these types of problems with the machine but given the cost of better options, I'll fuss with it awhile longer. Then maybe we can help each other toss them out the windows and upgrade.

[Mike Archambeau]

John.....a person could make a good case for a dedicated jointer and a dedicated planer after hearing what you are experiencing. If you set the machine in jointer mode and leave it there does the problem still exist? Or does it come about when you convert over between the two modes?

btw did you find a buyer for the mortising machine?

[John Coloccia]

John.....a person could make a good case for a dedicated jointer and a dedicated planer after hearing what you are experiencing. If you set the machine in jointer mode and leave it there does the problem still exist? Or does it come about when you convert over between the two modes?

btw did you find a buyer for the mortising machine?

I never did find a buyer. It's now sitting at work just to get it out of my shop. The killer with a lot of this stuff is shipping as the greater Hartford, CT area is not exactly the mecca of woodworking. I've sold one or two things, and the stuff I can ship sells quickly as I normally price stuff reasonably, but what do you do with a 100lb piece of machinery that costs $400 or $500? A $5000 piece of machinery can justify $100 shipping. On something this inexpensive, they may as well just buy one new unless they happen to live near me...then they get a good deal. C'est la vie.

I don't think converting really causes much of a problem. I thought it would but I find it's pretty consistent...consistently off but consistent! The problem seems to be that everything drifts around and the tables are warping now. I'm measuring by laying a straight edge on the outfeed table, extending over the infeed, and using a feeler gauge to measure the gap. I measure in for spots. I measure near the fence right at the front of the table and the back of the straight edge, and at the opposite side of the table in the same two spots....the 4 corners if you will that I can access with my straight edge.

My measurements before I went to sleep last night were (organized as if you were looking straight down on the table...cutter head to the left):

.009" .014"
.014" .008"

The thing is bent like a potato chip (a surface of negative curvature for you techies). My wife, bless her soul, was actually helping me by handing me the straight edge and stuff like that. She could see me struggling and my mood meandering to a fro between desperation, frustration and rage. LOL. She thought it might be a good idea give it up for the night before I started smashing it with a sledge hammer (that would be partly to put the poor thing out of it's misery, and partly to make it suffer as I have suffered).

Today I had some good friends over. Joe and I sneaked away to the shop and we left the women and children to do whatever it is women and children do when men aren't around (I think they smoke cigars and drink scotch...then they pick flowers and spread potpourri to cover it up) . For whatever reason, he started talking about the contraption and I went ahead and measured it again, just for kicks:

.009" .014"
.008" .013"

So it's obvious the thing flexes, and more than that it's obvious that it settles with time. The trick is going to be exactly how do I tweak it now so that it will be okay tomorrow and I'll be able to use it? Someone must have figured out some trick for aligning this thing. Mine was fine for a while so I did SOMETHING right way back when.

[Curt Harms]

The only though I have is to try measuring it with the jointer bed locks unlocked. See if it's better, worse or the same.

[glenn bradley]

This is just plain painful to watch. I just wanted to say that I am rooting for you and am sorry this is happening. I have had those episodes where you wander from frustration to anger to renewed determination; not fun. Since the tables seem unstable, I am not sure what a fix would be. I'll cross my fingers for you and hope that Jet has something of value to add.

[Michael Titus]

You might try releasing the table lock handles whenever the machine is not in use. It sounds like it's slowly flexing when you leave the handles "torqued down".

[Wes Grass]

How about if you crank the infeed down and back up? And what about the outfeed in relation to the cutter head?

But moving that much without touching it ... hmmm ... you don't happen to have a heater vent underneath it do you?

[Jim Matthews]

I was considering one of these for my own garage shop.

I'm miffed to hear that something like this is making it out of their factory.
There is no way that you should pay for aggravation.

Jim
wpt, ma

[Mike Hollingsworth]

I haven't had this problem on my MiniMax. I found it best not to crank the tables down too tight.

[John Coloccia]

I was considering one of these for my own garage shop.

I'm miffed to hear that something like this is making it out of their factory.
There is no way that you should pay for aggravation.

Jim
wpt, ma

I don't think it's that big of a deal. Frustrating perhaps, but I've payed a lot more for equipment at work that has performed MUCH worse and has needed far more fiddling to get "right". I'm asking it to do joints as well as I can do by hand. I think it would make 99% of woodworkers very happy. For a while, it made me happy.

Anyhow, I don't want to catastrophize (word?) this. It makes OK joints, even in it's current state. What it doesn't do it make perfect joints. It used to make perfect joints, therefore there must be some way to get it back there, and it's a frustrating experience to be chasing a few thousandths with such crude adjustments.

The fact that someone else is saying that he has to jack it up a bit every time, but that I didn't have to do that for a while, leads me to believe that there was something fundamentally different about my earlier setup than there is now. That's valuable information. I don't believe that the cast iron will sag this much under it's own weight in a matter of hours. I think the mount is moving and torquing the bed. I think I will try dropping the mounting plate as far as I can and adjusting from there. Maybe I'm teetering on the set screws? I don't know. I'll try this next and see where I end up.

[george wilson]

Can you just use it for a thickness planer and get a jointer? I got a big song and dance from the Jet repair facility about how proud they are of their quality. I had called to complain,and get parts,for a brand new Jet wet wheel grinder I bought. They FREQUENTLY stop working(due to literally beer can thickness push on connectors. no exaggeration,they crack during assembly,and frequently fall apart). Dealers told me they often don't work right out of the box.

[Kent Chasson]

....It makes OK joints, even in it's current state. What it doesn't do it make perfect joints. ......


Yep, that's my experience too. If I was gluing up a table top and willing to pull the joints together a bit with bar clamps, it would be fine. But the center seem in guitar tops needs to be perfect.


.... Maybe I'm teetering on the set screws?....


That can be a problem. If they aren't perfect, it really exacerbates the problem I mentioned of the cam clamp doing funny things to the table.

I looked at mine a bit more today and I think the design has it's limits. The height adjustment is designed to save space and weight, not to make bombproof adjustments. Any slop in that system will get exaggerated and could lead to table movement. Any imperfection in the original build could easily make for a table that is coplaner in one spot but goes out if you change the height. And I can see how it could wear in a couple of years too.

Please post if you find a way to improve things.

[John Coloccia]

Can you just use it for a thickness planer and get a jointer? I got a big song and dance from the Jet repair facility about how proud they are of their quality. I had called to complain,and get parts,for a brand new Jet wet wheel grinder I bought. They FREQUENTLY stop working(due to literally beer can thickness push on connectors. no exaggeration,they crack during assembly,and frequently fall apart). Dealers told me they often don't work right out of the box.

I'm considering that. I don't need the 12" width and simply turning it into a planer is a definite possibility.

I have the same sort of love/hate relationship with my Jet drum sander (22/44). It invaluable when it's working, which these days is most of the time. When something drifts and it needs tweaking, it can be the most infuriating machine on the planet to get working properly, though I have to say that with some experience I've got it down to the point that it's not a big deal anymore. The first couple of times just made me want melt it down and make paper weights out of it though. I think I'm going through a similar thing with the jointer. There's a certain art to aligning these things and I've yet to develop the touch. Aligning things with shims is just so much more predictable. I'm really starting to despise tweaking set screws and the like. Too much guess work.

On the other hand, my hand jointing technique was getting a bit rusty and the practice is doing me some good. I'd forgotten a lot of the little tricks I'd learned over the years. Now that I'm examining everything with a fine tooth comb, partly because I'm not confident in my own techniques anymore, I'm starting to notice things that I'd never really noticed before. I'm also appreciating the peace and quiet. I'm not appreciating how it's aggravating my tennis elbow...LOL. I don't play tennis so what's the harm?


I tell you, the two most difficult for me in the shop is accurately milling a straight line, and accurately marking a straight line. It's remarkably easy to make a lot of shapes that are really close to straight lines, but actually making something straight and accurately aligned is something I struggle with constantly. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've marked a straight line that I though was "perfect", looked at it closely and noticed it was off just a hair. It seems so easy but it drives me bonkers sometimes.

[glenn bradley]

I was reviewing the thread and did not see anything about this machine being mobile. These changes are taking place with the machine just setting still overnight, yes?

[John Coloccia]

I was reviewing the thread and did not see anything about this machine being mobile. These changes are taking place with the machine just setting still overnight, yes?

Correct. Interestingly enough, it's working perfectly well now. I haven't touched anything. That's why I haven't updated the thread. When it start drifting again (which it will soon, I'm sure) I will try lowering the infeed as much as I can to check it's not doing something funny with the set screws. The more I think of it, the more I think that's what's going on.

What's so frustrating is when it works well, it works VERY well. It's making joints as well as I can by hand at the moment. I glued up a bunch of body blanks a day or two ago and I literally can't find the joints anymore no matter how hard I try. If it would just stay like this, I would be a very happy man!

[Chip Lindley]

Before junking the Jet, try replacing the bolts that get torqued down with Grade 8 hardened bolts, nuts, washers that apply. Doubtful a BORG will have these, but a "real" hardware store or machine shop supplier will. It may solve your problem. If not, you only spent a few bucks to find out.

Otherwise, you could solve your problem for the short-term, by picking up a used 6" jointer off CL! Sure beats hand-planing. Ughh!

Good Luck,
~Chip~

[Curt Harms]

..................

What's so frustrating is when it works well, it works VERY well. It's making joints as well as I can by hand at the moment. I glued up a bunch of body blanks a day or two ago and I literally can't find the joints anymore no matter how hard I try. If it would just stay like this, I would be a very happy man!

It sounds like you need to install a Gremlin Cam. Try to catch the little suckers in the act. :p

[Chris Fournier]

Having started out with Tiawanese and Chinese equipment and stepped up to European and North American equipment as the shop income allowed I can say that ALL of my equipment has asked for some attention from one time to another. The difference in my experieince is that the NA and European equipment had incorporated thoughtful robust adjustment apparatus, made of quality fasteners that could retain my tweaks over time.

The offshore equipment had castings that looked solid enough although in some cases they were pretty skimpy where you couldn't really see them. The real trouble with the offshore equipment was that all of the "secondary" stuff, adjustments, shrouds, hardware were pitiful and looked to be stamped out of sheet metal by chimps. The fasteners were always about as tough as cottage cheese.

I have seen this scenario played out time and again. Take a look at a Baldor cup grinder and it's knock off offshore conterpart. The castings look good on both tools but everything that's attached to the offshore unit is painfully inferior and doesn't work well. Every forum about this goes on and on about the work required to take a brand new out of the box tool and get it working properly.

Jointer planer combos are very reliable and easy to use machines, I have had two and both have been great to me. Because of the articulation of tables I would say that a quality build is essential, quality goes deeper than paint and importer promises. Sometimes the owner really has to invest in getting these machines to perform as they should. The cost differential between the offshore and Western machines can make this pill a tad less bitter but after awhile, no matter how much money we "saved" I think that we all just want to turn it on and get good results.

[Joseph Tarantino]

Correct. Interestingly enough, it's working perfectly well now. I haven't touched anything. That's why I haven't updated the thread. When it start drifting again (which it will soon, I'm sure) I will try lowering the infeed as much as I can to check it's not doing something funny with the set screws. The more I think of it, the more I think that's what's going on.

What's so frustrating is when it works well, it works VERY well. It's making joints as well as I can by hand at the moment. I glued up a bunch of body blanks a day or two ago and I literally can't find the joints anymore no matter how hard I try. If it would just stay like this, I would be a very happy man!

did you ever contact jet support? if yes, what assistance did they provide?

[John Coloccia]

did you ever contact jet support? if yes, what assistance did they provide?

No. I've gone through troubleshooting with them, and others, in the past and simply don't have the bandwidth to do that right now, repeating all the basic alignment steps yet again, especially since it's working at the moment ("it's working? What are you bugging us for?"). When it drifts again, I will go to them with the issue.

[Chuong Nguyen]

I have the same JJP 12 with HH as you. I just purchased mine this past March during their sale.
I had to do the necessary adjusments to make the Jointer table coplaner. The Planer table seemed to be coplaner from factory. The Jointer fence needed some shimming to keep one side from rubbing on the table. but that was the extent of my issue.

But after I read your post, I went out to recheck the alignment and thankfully, everything is still OK. I do have it on a mobile base and have to move it around everytime I use it. But you're stating yours was good for a year and now is all jacked up, makes me nervous. I'm also wondering if the housing where the rear bolts bolt into is cracked somewhere?
Definately keep us posted on your findings.

[John Coloccia]

Well, I'll be calling them Monday regardless. A few minutes ago it developed a far more serious problem of simply refusing to start. Some switch or relay somewhere is no longer working, I'm sure. LOL. Maybe I'll get some energy to troubleshoot it tomorrow.

[John Coloccia]

I have the same JJP 12 with HH as you. I just purchased mine this past March during their sale.
I had to do the necessary adjusments to make the Jointer table coplaner. The Planer table seemed to be coplaner from factory. The Jointer fence needed some shimming to keep one side from rubbing on the table. but that was the extent of my issue.

But after I read your post, I went out to recheck the alignment and thankfully, everything is still OK. I do have it on a mobile base and have to move it around everytime I use it. But you're stating yours was good for a year and now is all jacked up, makes me nervous. I'm also wondering if the housing where the rear bolts bolt into is cracked somewhere?
Definately keep us posted on your findings.

If you look underneath the mount for the jointer fence, you will see two screws just hanging out doing nothing. I'm guessing that they're acting as set screws you can raise to level the jointer fence.

[John Coloccia]

Well, I'll be calling them Monday regardless. A few minutes ago it developed a far more serious problem of simply refusing to start. Some switch or relay somewhere is no longer working, I'm sure. LOL. Maybe I'll get some energy to troubleshoot it tomorrow.

I was feeling ambitious tonight so I started taking things apart. Here's an update in case anyone ever has this problem. If you remove the fence, and then remove the cover underneath the fence on the hinge side of the unit, you will find a small switch on the left side. It is activated by a cam on the dust shroud and a cam on the hinge pin for the table. The cam on the table hinge pin had all but fallen off, not allowing the switch to open all the way. It's now realigned/tightened and things are back to normal.

You can hear it click on and off if you listen carefully as you move the dust shroud or raise and lower the table. I believe earlier versions of this machine, like my original one, did not have this feature.

[Curt Harms]

I was feeling ambitious tonight so I started taking things apart. Here's an update in case anyone ever has this problem. If you remove the fence, and then remove the cover underneath the fence on the hinge side of the unit, you will find a small switch on the left side. It is activated by a cam on the dust shroud and a cam on the hinge pin for the table. The cam on the table hinge pin had all but fallen off, not allowing the switch to open all the way. It's now realigned/tightened and things are back to normal.

You can hear it click on and off if you listen carefully as you move the dust shroud or raise and lower the table. I believe earlier versions of this machine, like my original one, did not have this feature.

Mine has that switch. Pretty chintzy installation but it does work once properly set.

[david huffer]

I've also had a difficult time with the JJP-12. I've regretted purchasing it almost since the day I bought it. Planing is fine. Jointing, especially face jointing wider than 4 inch material, is impossible as far as I can tell. I'm just tired of wasting my time fiddling with this machine.

For one, I had to replace the motor early after buying the machine because it would run for only about 5 or 10 minutes at a time before overheating, shutting off, and refusing to restart for about a half hour. But that isn't the frustrating part. Neither is the broken cutterblock guard. I've had to remove that completely because the weak material snapped and now the guard can no longer be raised above the beds. I don't like that, of course, and I decided I should write this while I still have fingers. Although it is doubtful I would lose them to the JJP-12: for every second I've used it I've spent an hour (re-)adjusting it.

My frustration comes, like for many others, from my inability to successfully align the jointer beds. I know how I should orient the tables to make them coplanar, but for the life of me I cannot make the appropriate adjustments. I've literally spent days and days trying to align these beds with no success. I've opened the top, loosened the bolts, made adjustments, tightened the bolts, and closed the lid more times than I care to mention. A nightmare...

I've spoken to Jet's technical support. They were helpful when I was diagnosing the motor problem. But for coplanar adjustment I didn't get much help. They said the manual I have is the same thing they have, and its simply trial and error.

I asked whether they could talk me through the most common steps of diagnosing and adjusting. Nope.

I asked if they could talk me through a "factory reset" to get the beds back to where they might have started. Nope.

I asked if they could help me understand a little better how each of the four set screws affect the pitch and the tilt at the back of each table. I'm not sure about how much of the table is actually affected by these adjustments. And I also don't know how much of the front of the table is affected by the two hex screws at the front. Nope.

I read what others have said about the locking mechanism. I agree, there's too much slop. I do know that every time I make adjustments to the front I also make tiny adjustments to the lock handle adjustments so that i can keep the handles in about straight down when they are as tight as i think they should be. I typically have them locked down but from what others have said that might be a bad idea.

The one thing i have noticed is that the outfeed table sits high. i actually have to push it down about 1/4" to lock it. that doesnt seem right. if i lift the lid like im going to convert to planing or make some adjustments to the tables, i can put a straight edge across the tables and they arent even close to being aligned. that and the spacing around the cutterhead is wider at the back than the front. i can't help but think that might have something to do with this.

I had some 4/4 poplar about 7" wide that i was attempting to face joint this weekend. i spent all day readjusting the tables. once i got them where i thought they were right i started working the wood. i made some chalk marks on the face to see where i was hitting and where i wasnt. one side was clearly getting jointed (the side nearest the fence i think) and the other side wasnt being touched. i went ahead and did that over and over to see if i could somehow get to a surfaced face. i ended up with something that i could probably crosscut and use as a wedge.

Has anyone worked out the best way to adjust this thing? i would appreciate some advice.

[Myk Rian]

:D:D:D Good one. I sometimes think the mayo and mustard owners are like MAC owners . . . its as if nothing ever goes wrong with them ;););)
Or Linux users.

[Peter Quinn]

Or Linux users.


As. Mac using mustard owner I'll say things clearly go wrong, but not usually with a brand new machine. Every time you open a jar of pickles it feels like gamble, sort of like rebooting a wintel box and hoping whAt ever demon was plaguing he machine might be gone in the few seconds down time. Want to search for problems with mustard....hard to find, it sure lasts a long time. Mayo can go bad in the heAt at a picnic.....and every batch of pickles is a gamble. Pretty good metaphor really.

[Bruce Page]

David, welcome to SMC. I think that you will get a better response if you you copy & past your adjustment questions into a new thread.

[paul cottingham]

Or Linux users.
Fighting words. :-)