Steel for planemaking

[Jeff Wittrock]

Hello all,

I've made a couple of metal infill planes in the last year. One was a small smoother and another a shoulder plane. On both I used rivets to join the sides and sole because I didn't think I would do a very good job with dovetails.

Now I am wanting to try my hand at a larger smoother with dovetails. I have been practicing using scraps of Hot Rolled A36 I have laying around and found it isn't so bad making those dovetails after all.

Hot rolled A36 is all I have worked with but now that I am going to order some steel for my next plane, and I have been debating on what to use. I would like to use O1, but on my first larger plane I don't really want to buy that much O1 and mess it up, so I was thinking about just sticking with A36 or cold rolled 1018.

From what I understand the 1018 can be more troublesome because of stresses produced during the cold roll processing, but that it can also be a little easier to work and has a better finish to start with.

The rough dimensions of my plane will be ~2.5" wide x ~8" long x 2.5" tall. I know this has all probably been discussed before, but can someone give some personal experience on just how troublesome the stresses in 1018 can be? Is the surface finish that much better than A36 that It would save me much lapping?

Thanks,
Jeff Wittrock

[Johnny Kleso]

At work we often buy 0-1 or W-1 rods for shafting as it is much eaiser to come by and lots cheaper..
You can buy 18" of tool steel vs 12' of hot rolled with a heavy delivery charge..

[george wilson]

You could just anneal the cold rolled 1018 if you have the means to get it close to red hot. Quenching is best left to just letting it air cool. Cold rolled steel is going to be more troublesome to peen than hot rolled. When a machinist wants to make an accurate angle plate,gauge,etc.,he makes it out of hot rolled steel. When you machine or saw up cold rolled steel,it is usually gong to relieve stresses put into the metal by cold rolling,and cause it to warp some.

I just used hot rolled "black iron".a low carbon grade of mild steel. There was always leftover stuff up to 3/16" thick to be had in the sheetmetal shop in the maintenance area near my shop.

[Leigh Betsch]

The only problem with hot rolled is you have to have enough "machine" to get the scale off it. I wouldn't want to lap the bark off hot rolled steel. I unusually figure that I'm going to need to cut 1/32 per side off of hot roll to get hot rolled steel to clean up. Cold roll steel will clan up quicker but I hate it for getting anything flat. I've never tried to anneal or stress relieve it like George mentioned.

[David Weaver]

I agree with johnny - I've made two planes out of O1, and now 1 1/2 out of mild steel. The O1 is very friendly to the hand lapper. It's still tough to abrade compared to cast, but it's not rubbery.

You should be able to buy one piece of 1/8th at the width you want and one piece of 3/16th at the width you want, and you'd have enough scrap with the 3/16 to make a few irons.

[george wilson]

You can soak the scale off with an acid bath. You can also get precision ground low carbon stock if you want a nice smooth surface. I kind of think it's a waste,though,as you'll be filing,sanding and generally eliminating that precision ground surface anyway while making a plane. Precision ground low carbon costs about the same as 01. You are paying for the grinding. Might be easier to work with,though. A speculation as I haven't tried the low carb. stuff. For what you get,I don't care to pay for grinding I'm going to eliminate anyway.

[john brenton]

I have yet to even delve into the world of steels and their properties other than how they feel and how they work when I already have them in my hands. When it comes to the body, what would be wrong with using whatever steel you can get your hands on? Is it just that if you're going to put all that work in it may as well be good steel?

[David Weaver]

If you don't have access to a mill, and you're going to cut all of the waste out and then lap by hand, it becomes more of an issue about what you like.

If you go with thick O1, you'll have a lot of sawing and combcutting to do, but it files nicely and laps nicely. Peining on thick bottom and sides on a larger plane is really a good bit of work, though. It's precision ground, however, and if you don't bend it up too much peining it, everything stays pretty straight.

With mild steel, everything is gummier (i've never had to cut tails with it, it's been in kits that I've gotten), but the peining is a lot easier.

pins on pins (and secondary bevels) with O1 left me with a hand that was numb for a day after peining, and a lot of stray hammer strikes because of fatigue. No more pins on pins, but I think I'm going to stick with O1 because it is predictable.

[Jeff Wittrock]

Thanks all for the advise. I really appreciate it.

The main reason I was thinking about cold rolled was for the finish since I don't have a mill. Probably just being lazy. I guess if I draw file the surfaces first, then I wouldn't go through sanding belts so quick :).

I know what you mean about the "gumminess" of the mild steel David. I like the idea of using O1. From what I have read it is a lot easier to remove the waste from the dovetails by "comb sawing" and just knocking the waste pieces out. When I try that with A36 it just keeps bending back and forth. Is that probably the same with 1018? The problem is that the price of O1 bar stock just adds up pretty quick when I look at all the pieces I'll need.

I know what ya'll are thinkin.... how can this guy be that cheap. I know, I know..... but as strange as it sounds, I just enjoy working on something a lot more knowing that no matter how badly I screw the thing up, it didn't cost me much. Hey, it is a hobby after all.

Thanks for the suggestion of annealing the cold rolled steel George. I was wondering if a MAP torch would be enough for something like this? Somewhat related to this is that I have been thinking it would be kind of a cool finish on the plane to case harden it. When I used to play with muzzle loading rifles, I always like the appearance of case hardened metal. Have any of you ever tried that on a plane body? I was wondering if a MAP torch would be enough for doing this. My guess is that a single MAP torch wouldn't be enough without building some kind of mini furnace with bricks. Even then, I'm guessing it would take a couple of torches?

Thanks again all for the info.

-Jeff

[Johnny Kleso]

The problem is that the price of O1 bar stock just adds up pretty quick when I look at all the pieces I'll need.



Unless your buying a Mill Order 1,000 lbs plus the prices are not that different..
One is ground and finished and annealed the other has a rolled finish with lots of stresses for beng rolled to size..
you might as well buy Low carbon stock same cost as tool steel ground and annealed..

Unless you can get your hands on CRS cheap then you can put it in a pretty good size wood fire under all the coals and come back the next day after it has cooled to air temp..

[David Weaver]

Comb cutting on O1 is a snap. You can comb cut it all the way down to your scribe line and two bends and it breaks off, but it only breaks off above the scribe line leaving you only a little bit of filing to do.

I just checked mcmaster carr, if you did the bottom in 3/16ths and the sides in 1/8th, you'd be able to get all of the metal, and enough extra 3/16ths for an iron for probably about $60 shipped.

There is something rewarding about cutting, filing and peining the dovetails. It's a lot like the difference between putting something together with dowels vs. putting something together with half blinds.

[David Keller NC]

I just checked mcmaster carr, if you did the bottom in 3/16ths and the sides in 1/8th, you'd be able to get all of the metal, and enough extra 3/16ths for an iron for probably about $60 shipped.

David's right on here. One way to think about this is that the absolutely cheapest, most basic professionally-made new infill of any quality is still going to cost you about a grand for a standard-sized smoother. Even if you mess up and get somewhat mangled dovetails, so what? The materials in a project like this are a near infinetesimal compared to the labor that you're going to put into it.

Put another way, would you really want to spend a year and a couple of thousand hours into a Newport Secretary, and make it out of yellow pine because the materials were cheap?

[Metod Alif]

Jeff,
Soft steel 1080 peens OK. So does brass 360 - if you do not need to move it a lot. Too much peening of 360 causes hardening and chipping. Apparently not a problem (I have no experience) with cartridge (260) brass, but it is more (twice?) costly than 360. For my personal use, 360 is good enough. It also machines easily.
Check http://www.handplane.com/ for some hopefully useful info. The geometry of the dovetails there calls for fairly little brass (sides) peening.
Best wishes,
Metod

[george wilson]

I just comb sawed my dovetails into black iron and hand filed my dovetails. I had no problem with the hot rolled black iron,though I do know how to file different metals. Hot rolled low carbon can easily pin up your file and cause a deep scratch just when you are wanting as smooth a finish as possible!! Choke the file up with chalk when filing soft,gummy steels. Some like to oil their files. If you do,bear down enough that the file doesn't just skid over the surface and thus dull the teeth.

For what it's worth,260 brass lead solders fine,but 360 doesn't like lead. You can use lead free solder on it fine,though. Both silver solder o.k.. 260 has a slight greenish tint to it that I don't like,unless it is fully polished. 360 is a better colored brass,I think. If you use brass pins in a brass bodied plane,use 360 for the body of the plane. It's very hard to find brass rod in 260. It is available in 360,so the rivets,pins,whatever,will not be a different color from your plane's sides.

[Stephen Pereira]

I'd use hot rolled steel. You can buy a 20' stick of 3/16 or 1/8" x 2 1/2 fairly reasonably. Soak your hot rolled in a bucket of mild acid solution for a day or two..removes most of the scale. To get down to bright steel by milling, sanding whatever you'll lose about .040 each side. Also keep in mind that hot rolled unlike ground stock or cold roll has round edges .. if you want a square edge you'll lose some width ..off hand .150"