Strops

[George Symula]

I have a couple of questions for those of you who use leather strops as a sharpening tool.
1. What thickness or weight do you find the best?
2. Is horsebutt that much better than other leathers?
3. What substrate do you use and what glue do you use?
Thanks....George

[jim goddard]

1. Whatever I have around at the time. The last ones I made came from an old pair of boots which Im pretty sure was cowhide.
2. Dont know but my cowhide version makes a good edge pretty quick.
3. solid wood and whatever sort of glue is handy.

[Dale Coons]

Made mine with cowhide on mdf--stuck with contact cement. they're several years old now and still work fine.

[David Keller NC]

I have a couple of questions for those of you who use leather strops as a sharpening tool.
1. What thickness or weight do you find the best?
2. Is horsebutt that much better than other leathers?
3. What substrate do you use and what glue do you use?
Thanks....George

George - My take on this (I use a strop for all edge maintenance until the edges get chipped or nicked and require re-grinding and/or re-honing on waterstones):

1: Thinner is better, because the leather has less "give" when glued to a flat substrate, and is less likely to round the cutting edge if too much pressure is applied during stropping. Having said that, it's a minor factor. My current one is somewhere between 1/8" and 1/4" thick oil-tanned cowhide leather. My last one was 1/32nd - 1/16" oil-tanned deer hide. I don't notice any performance differences.

2: Not really. It doesn't really make any difference what you use, so long as it will reasonably hold the stropping compound. In fact, many folks successfully use stropping compound spread directly onto MDF or a flat maple or other hardwood board (without the leather). I'm old school; I prefer leather.

3: Any substrate that's flat and appeals to your aesthetic sensibilities. I make my strops out of mahogany scraps; others use MDF, plywood, maple, or just about anything else that's reasonably hard. The glue doesn't matter - anything that will both stick to leather and wood will work. That includes hot hide glue, liquid hide glue, yellow carpenter's glue, epoxy, urea formaldehyde glues, etc..., etc...

[Zahid Naqvi]

A lot of folks don't use leather at all, just scribble a bunch of criss cross lines on MDF or flattened solid wood and use that as strop. After all the only purpose leather serves is to hold the honing compound.

[David Weaver]

8/9 oz vegetable tanned leather is what I use (that is about 1/8th thick), and it can be bought fairly cheaply by the square foot on ebay. I keep a few square feet of it around to make strops, and to make leather discs for a disc sander (that is a very handy, but somewhat dangerous, stropping machine).

I have not used horse butt, but a fairly large group of "knowing" folks on WC called it better because it's harder and it has more pull on the edge - maybe more silica? (you'll know what I mean when you strop on something hard). I'm sure they're right, but it's out of my price range for my level of carelessness - meaning that if I accidentally get metal filings in a strop with $2 of vege tanned leather on it, it's not a huge deal, I can just go make another one.

I glue an offcut of wood to one of the large pieces of scrap leather to make a paddle strop, and just cut the paddle free from the scrap with a plane blade once the glue dries. Glued with hide glue (anything that holds the leather to the wood without making hard lumps under the strop is fine).

I only generally use the strop to move and manipulate the edge since my finish stone is a 1 micron stone and is almost a strop. I think most people who don't strop would be shocked how much an edge on even very hard tool steel moves, not just gets adhered or abraded off, but is moved/bent by the leather. If you can move and manipulate the edge, you can use a coarser stone, like a 4k/5k stone or a black oilstone and get the edge to behave like it was done on a much finer stone.

A very very fine stone will shave hair very easily on both sides of the bevel (i.e., you can sharpen a plane iron and then shave easily with it bevel up or bevel down). With a strop, you can manipulate the edge so one side of the iron or chisel will behave like either side of a more finely honed iron (obviously, you manipulate the edge so that for example, if you're using a BD iron, you intentionally get that sharpeness with the iron oriented the way it will be seated in the plane).

[David Weaver]

A lot of folks don't use leather at all, just scribble a bunch of criss cross lines on MDF or flattened solid wood and use that as strop. After all the only purpose leather serves is to hold the honing compound.

This works extremely well, too, if you have a stone that doesn't cut very tough steels well, but don't want to spend $100 on one that does. All of the commonly used tool steels are sharpened to a very sharp edge by the green stuff (chromium oxide). On steels with big carbides, there is a very significant difference in sharpness with MDF and green junk vs. stopping with a shapton 15k, and it can just be used like a stone.

[Gary Hodgin]

I have a few strops and slips made from leather I got it from Woodcraft, but I've seen it at some other places. I'm sure a strop could be made from various other leather. I suspect some are better than others but for $15 I decided to just go with the woodcraft stuff.

I made an 8" x 2" paddle strop made from leather I got at Woodcraft. I made the paddle (same shape as those sold at Woodcraft) and attached it to a 3/4" poplar substrate with rubber cement. The leather has green compound on it and is smooth side up. I like the smooth side up but some use the round side and some make double-sided paddles. I plan to make a larger one (about 12" x 3") for a razor. It will be one-sided, smooth side up with no compound. I used neetsfoot oil to condition them. I'm sure other stuff (mineral oil, honing oil) would work too.

I also have a strop made with compound on balsa. It's a thin (about 3/8") piece of balsa about 10"x 3" with green compound (chromium oxide) on one side and red compound (iron oxide) on the other. I bought this from Larry at whippeddog. com, but it would be very easy to make. I got it as a package with some other stuff. This is a cheap but effective way to strop.



With any stropping you have to worry about rounding over the edge, but with a firm substrate the chances are reduced. Rounding over is one reason why I prefer the smooth side of a leather strop over the rough side. Some use the fine diamond compounds on wooden and leather strops.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004242/8620/Leather-For-HoneSlip-Makers.aspx

[john brenton]

Plus 1 for the balsa paddle strop. I made mine originally for travelling with a straight razor, but then went with a disposable blade straight. They sell good sized balsa strips at Michaels and Hobby Lobby.

[Jim Koepke]

1. What thickness or weight do you find the best?
2. Is horsebutt that much better than other leathers?
3. What substrate do you use and what glue do you use?

1. Whatever works. I have some very thick, hard pieces for plane blades and chisels.
I also have some thin pieces that can be manipulated to strop gouges.

2. This is something for others to answer. I do not know if any of my leather is horse butt or not.

3. None of my strops are mounted. Often they are just set on my band saw table for use or on the edge of the bench.

In the past, I was not much for stropping. Since buying a "green stick" at a lapidary shop, I have been converted.

jtk

[john brenton]

Horse hide may be better for straight razor shaving, but it would be overkill for tools...

[George Symula]

Thanks for the responses. I've been a waterstone (king) guy and for the last few years scary sharp guy. About a week ago I picked up a cast iron table saw top at the reclamation center (dump) in good condition. After all of the fuss about diamond sharpening I decided to give it a go, so I've cleaned up the top, ordered some diamond in three grits and since I've comitted to try cast iron, i figured I might as well go all in and make a couple of strops. A quick stop at Tandy got me 2 chunks of leather out of the scrap bin, ($4) 1 piece tanned and about !/8"-3/16 and the other very hard and about 1/32". I guess if there's no real preference I'll go with titebond 3 and unibond 800.
Dennis, what do you mean by, "moving" the iron around?

George

[Zahid Naqvi]

I made a leather strop from some rough leather, glued it on a board but I always get my edges rounded on it, despite putting on a very liberal coat of white honing compound. So I switched to a pine board with some lines scribbled on it, and it seems to be so much better. I must be doing something wrong with the leather strop I guess

[john brenton]

Probably pressing too hard. When you strop straight razors, it's a necessity to put as little pressure as possible on the razor...basically letting the weight of the little razor be the only pressure. Of course there is some play in there, and you can put a little pressure on, but you don't need to. Same thing with the tools. If a light stropping isn't enough to get the edge where it needs to be, then it's time to soak the stones.

Anything beyond 8k is not really necessary (some argue that 8k is overkill), and using white or green rouge after honing to 8k is no good.


I made a leather strop from some rough leather, glued it on a board but I always get my edges rounded on it, despite putting on a very liberal coat of white honing compound. So I switched to a pine board with some lines scribbled on it, and it seems to be so much better. I must be doing something wrong with the leather strop I guess

[Jay Maiers]

What is a good size for stropping plane blades?

[john brenton]

3" wide, by 10" long minimum, IMO. You could get by with less, but why?


What is a good size for stropping plane blades?

[george wilson]

If MDF has dirt and other trash in it,I would think it might not be "pure" enough to strop my tools on. In fact,if it has dirt,bits of metal,etc. in it (was this on another forum?) I don't want to be cutting it with my expensive table saw blades,or any other blades.

[Jay Maiers]

3" wide, by 10" long minimum, IMO. You could get by with less, but why?

Thanks John. I can go longer and wider if it would be better / easier to use. I have a piece of veg. tanned leather approximately 3' x 6" average.

[David Weaver]

If MDF has dirt and other trash in it,I would think it might not be "pure" enough to strop my tools on. In fact,if it has dirt,bits of metal,etc. in it (was this on another forum?) I don't want to be cutting it with my expensive table saw blades,or any other blades.

It's not too bad, it shouldn't actually have dirt or metal in it - just a formaldehyde resin, wax and modified wood fibers. When I planed it, I noticed how fast it dulled edges, so I figured it might be nice even as a bare material for a strop.

I found out quickly that it's not as abrasive as you'd want for a bare strop (it doesn't do anything productive), it has to have some green stuff on it. with the green stuff from LV and a little bit of lubricant, it significantly improves the edge of a tool that came off of a shapton 15k stone without doing anything to the edge that might show up on something like a nice smooth planed surface.

BUT, since it's just like using another stone, and not as quick or convenient as using a leather strop to move the edge around instead of continuing just to hone it, and you have to fiddle with same things as you would with a stone over time - it loads, cakes up with swarf, etc.

After working in a cabinet factory where there was way too much exposure to formaldehyde vapors (from finishing, and ply, and possibly from MDF core RTF doors), I'm not sure I want much MDF in my shop, anyway, especially with the dust. I've had my share of formaldehyde already, i'm sure.

[john brenton]

I would cut that up to 3" X 12" then, so you have six pieces. You can charge one up with rouge and leave the other natural, and still have four more just in case you damage the others. It may be nice to have a longer strop though so you can take longer softer strokes instead of short choppy ones that make you want to put more pressure and go faster. My razor strop is about 3' long. Just a preference thing I guess.


Thanks John. I can go longer and wider if it would be better / easier to use. I have a piece of veg. tanned leather approximately 3' x 6" average.

[Trevor Walsh]

I've actually used mdf with green polishing compound, it works just as well and is easier for me to get at least. The polish is way cheaper that way.

[George Symula]

George,
I don't understand. After you've stropped a couple of blades isn't there a residue of metal from the blades left on the strop? Am I missing something? (wouldn't be the first time)...George S

[john brenton]

This is why I like a paddle strop. Even though I don't see the residual metal as a big deal on woodworking tools, I also don't carve beautiful lion's head violin heads in boxwood like Geroge W. has done. I like the paddle strop because refreshing is as easy as scraping the rouge off and making sure you have a flat balsa surface. Cleaning a leather strop can leave you with a leather surface that is unsuitable for stropping, and may need to be broken in again...that's if it's not ruined. A lot of time goes in to breaking in a leather strop properly and you don't want to mess that up.

On straight razor strops, especially the linen one charged with rouge, that strop will turn black in no time with that high carbon steel. In the case of straight razors, I do worry about that as the thing touches my face, and my razors are very valuable to me. I periodically clean the linen strop...but not too often, maybe once every couple of months or twice a year, and I've had no problem. I also rarely use the rouged linen strop as I use the leather prior to every shave. Again, when cleaning even a linen strop there is a lot of care to be taken in not ruining it, or having to break it in all over again.

Again (do I say "again" alot?) when talking about straight razors you're talking about a whole different world of sharp, evidenced by the hundreds of "enthusiasts" on a never ending search for the perfect edge that they'll spend any amount of money on stones to achieve. Tool edges aren't as critical.


George,
I don't understand. After you've stropped a couple of blades isn't there a residue of metal from the blades left on the strop? Am I missing something? (wouldn't be the first time)...George S

[george wilson]

MDF can have steel bits like staples,etc.,not microscopic powdered steel leavings from stropping.The dirt is even worse. I mean,what grit is it.:) Probably not as fine as you might like.

They get the sawdust from dirty sawmills,pick it up with front end loaders from laying on the ground,and process it. No telling how much dirt and sand,or whatever crud is in the tree bark or on the ground. No,I don't want it being cut with my good blades. If I HAD to use it,I'd put on some old blade I didn't care much about anymore. Possibly an OLD carbon steel blade I could sharpen up. Certainly it isn't going over my jointer.

Maybe I'm getting too anal about it. Goes with the territory,though.

[Jim Matthews]

Hard rock maple with stropping compound for mine...

Leather doesn't do well in my coastal Mass basement.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi all

I'm a little late to the thread, but here's my 2c worth on strops ...

The horse butt leather from Joel at TFWW is excellent. The only modification I make is to the instructions, as I would recommend glueing it permanently to hardwood. And I prefer the smooth side up.

A few years ago I wrote up a tutorial on stropping. This was at the end of an article comparing green compound with diamond paste on the leather: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/Stroppingwithgreenrougeversesdiamondpaste.html

These days I strop much, much less. I do turn to the leather every now-and-then, but my preference has changed.

The usefulness of a strop (in my shop) is to re-new an edge. Now I have a sharpening centre alongside my bench, and this uses either Shaptons (which require a quick misting of water) or diamond paste on cast iron (and only need to be re-charged on a weekly basis). Consequently, it is actually more effort to strop than to touch up an edge.

Strops are also used for sharpening. Just like any stone, they abraid a metal surface, the degree to which depends on the compound used. Consequently some use it as a finishing "stone". This is unnecessary if you have a high grit/low micron alternative (eg 8000 or 12000 waterstone).

They are useful for removing a wire edge or, rather, ensuring it is gone. Still, this is really an issue of technique.

Another alternative to leather or MDF with green compound is to glue the .05 micron micro mesh sheets (I get them from LV) to glass (I have a couple of small rectangles of glass glued to hardwood. These are the size of a waterstone). This creates a hard, non-flexing surface that will not induce any rounding over ... which leather does.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Joe Fabbri]

Hi guys,

I'm a new member here, and I just tried out an old leather belt I had laying around. The back side seemed to be good untreated leather, nice and smooth. I took two chisels and a plane blade, went to my stone (just an old carburundum), and then I went to the belt, without any compound. I got both of them pretty darn sharp with this homemade strop. I can cut paper clean across, and shave some hair. But then I went to do another plane blade, and it seemed like the belt started to dull the blade. I'm not sure if I was pressing too hard. I tried starting over on the stone and then again on the belt (more than a few times), pressing more lightly, but no luck. The belt got a little rough after the first couple of blades/chisels. If it starts to get rough, should it then have compound? I guess my question is, when dealing with suade textured leather (which is how some of the belt got), is compound necessary to get good results?

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread, but just curious if anyone else here has ever used an old belt.

Joe

[George Symula]

Thanks to all. I'm off to fish the Delaware system in NY. E+W branches, Beaverkill, etc.

George

[george wilson]

I wear a 1 1/2" wide belt made of English harness leather. When I use my razor sharp knife,I often pull out the end of the belt,which is about 8",and strop the knife on the back of the belt. It seems to restore the very
slightly dulled edge . I have no compound on it,but remember that the knife is already nearly razor sharp,and I'm just renewing the edge a little.

[David Keller NC]

Hi guys,

I'm a new member here, and I just tried out an old leather belt I had laying around. The back side seemed to be good untreated leather, nice and smooth. I took two chisels and a plane blade, went to my stone (just an old carburundum), and then I went to the belt, without any compound. I got both of them pretty darn sharp with this homemade strop. I can cut paper clean across, and shave some hair. But then I went to do another plane blade, and it seemed like the belt started to dull the blade. I'm not sure if I was pressing too hard. I tried starting over on the stone and then again on the belt (more than a few times), pressing more lightly, but no luck. The belt got a little rough after the first couple of blades/chisels. If it starts to get rough, should it then have compound? I guess my question is, when dealing with suade textured leather (which is how some of the belt got), is compound necessary to get good results?

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread, but just curious if anyone else here has ever used an old belt.

Joe

Joe - Dumb question - you are pulling the blade toward you, are you not (i.e., runnign the blade in the opposite direction of how you would use it to cut something)? I ask because it really doesn't make sense that you would have roughed the leather up from stropping a couple of blades....

[Terry Beadle]

Another stropping method is to use a brown paper bag. Cut a strip out of it about 3 x 12, apply some green rouge to it ( optional ), and then place it on a cast iron table top or dead flat hardwood surface. If using wood, a softish wood ( like basswood ) will give you more give where as a rock maple will not. The amount of give you have in the base will dictate how much you can push down in the strop stroke. The softer the base, the less hard you should push to avoid round over.

One thing I've noted is that after a strop has been used a while, you can usually put more pressure on the strop stroke and that shortens the amount of strokes required. On my kitchen knives, only 6 strokes on each side of the cutting edge with rock maple strop with green rouge does the trick.

You can use the brown paper plain and it will give good results too but not as quick as having green on it. It's just another option. Some times I'll keep a bit of paper on the bench and just use it as a substrate for the paper stropping. It's like doing any paperwork...if it tears...it must not be your bag ! Hoot!

Enjoy the shavings.

[Joe Fabbri]

Hi David,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I am pulling back toward me, not in the cutting direction. I think maybe the leather was getting worn because I didn't remove enough of the burr on the stone before going to the belt, sort of a card scraper effect perhaps.

Also, since the belt is thin (1 inch probably), when it came to the plane blades, I had to pull it back and across the belt to get full contact with the blade. So, I made a few scrapes and cuts on the belt when pulling it diagonally.

I think a major problem is my stropping technique. I think originally I must have been doing it very delicately, and watching myself more. When I got good results on the first couple, I probably got more confident and didn't pay enough attention to how I was holding the blade, etc. I can't think of much else. That, and also the leather getting a little rough.

But, back to the leather being rough--this is not a great thing when it comes to stropping without compound, right?

Joe

[Maurice Ungaro]

I made a leather strop from some rough leather, glued it on a board but I always get my edges rounded on it, despite putting on a very liberal coat of white honing compound. So I switched to a pine board with some lines scribbled on it, and it seems to be so much better. I must be doing something wrong with the leather strop I guess

Zahid, using the smooth, or tanned side of the leather will prevent from rounding the edge. The rough side is too furry.

[David Weaver]

But, back to the leather being rough--this is not a great thing when it comes to stropping without compound, right?

Joe

I don't know if it matters.

Light pressure on the smooth side is the easiest thing for me to wrap my head around - I can see exactly what's going on. Light like holding a chisel up on the handle and just dragging it across the smooth side under its own weight at an angle very slightly higher than the bevel to get the drag right at the edge.

Everyone seems to do it differently and usually get good results, I guess, but (i think, at least based on how I strop my straight razors) the right way to strop a razor is with light pressure on a smooth surface, and that seems to work well on tools, too.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Some argue that you must use vegetable tanned because chrome oil tanned will stain your blades. A valid concern for a sheath, roll, or anything that will have long term metal to strop contact. Not likely to be an issue with a strop, although I do know people that will only purchase vegetable tanned because of this. I prefer vegetable tanned because they are easier to work with (more flexible.... whereas chrome tanned is not as easy to stretch and mold). Then again, perhaps that is why you should use chrome tanned :-)

[Gary Curtis]

The answers to your questions aren't so simple. Yes, the butt leather does offer advantages.

I use leather disks, not a belt, with compounds. On my Veritas Mk II power sharpener.
You can read all you need to know about leather — and order various shapes/sizes – at this website.
www.handamerican.com

Kenneth DeGrau has written on sharpening with strops in FWW and a few other WWing magazines.

The compounds I use aren't course. Only the diamond paste in really fine grits.