What do you guys think about this powermatic planer?

[keith micinski]

It obviously needs completely restored to get going but it sure does seem like it would be worth it. IT was stored outside under a tarp for the last year and who knows if the motor is any good because he has no way to fire it up. I was thinking about offering him 200 for it but he has no way to load it and I am wondering if by the time it is all said and done if I wont have 1000 bucks into it anyway.
http://centralmich.craigslist.org/tls/2386337791.html

[David Kumm]

Assuming you can move it, the parts alone will make it worthwhile. The grinder is worth that price. Dave

[keith micinski]

Well it says the grinding motor is missing which I assumed meant the whole grinder was missing and the only thing there was the track it road on. He is going to get the motor checked out and make sure that it works. If that is the case and the motor works I think I am going to get it and then work on trying to find a phase converter somewhere. Does anyone have any guess on how old it is? I looked on owwm and cant find one that looks like it. other then the motor and maybe the bearings for the head there shouldn't be a lot of other things that could be wrong could there. The cosmetic work doesn't bother me but I don't want to spend the next year trying to get this thing as a usable planer.

[Mike Harrison]

If you don't have a larger planer its a good project.

[David Kumm]

Go on OWWM.org. Powermatic planers are common and there will lots of advice. The 160 looks 40-50's vintage which were good years. The grinder motor is replaceable. I think the planer is about 1300-1500 lbs. Dave

[Eric Patterson]

I think $400 is a bargain for a complete direct drive Powermatic 160 with a grinder bar too. I paid $400 for mine. It's belt driven but did have the grinder with motor included. Those alone go for $400.

http://duckboats.net.nmsrv.com/pics/eric/PM160purchase2.jpg

Doing a complete takedown is time consuming and it sure helps to have access to a hydraulic press and OTC three jaw bearing pullers. There are a lot of parts.

http://duckboats.net.nmsrv.com/pics/eric/PileOPlaner3.jpg


http://duckboats.net.nmsrv.com/pics/eric/PileOPlaner4.jpg


http://duckboats.net.nmsrv.com/pics/eric/PileOPlaner1.jpg

http://duckboats.net.nmsrv.com/pics/eric/PileOPlaner2.jpg


You can expect to find some broken stuff along the way but replacements are usually no more than a phone call away to Redmond's Machinery. Looks like some student tried to plane more off than the feed rollers move up. New bearings throughout will run $200 or so.

http://duckboats.net.nmsrv.com/pics/eric/CrackedBlocks1.jpg


But when it's all said and done you have a planer that satisfies to every time you power it up and can tackle more wood in one lifetime than five imports.

http://duckboats.net.nmsrv.com/pics/eric/PM160-2.jpg

http://duckboats.net.nmsrv.com/pics/eric/PM160-5.jpg


http://duckboats.net.nmsrv.com/pics/eric/PM160-7.jpg

And last but not least a little video to see one in action.

http://duckboats.net.nmsrv.com/pics/eric/PM160Vid.wmv

[David Kumm]

After you look at Eric's pictures, take a look at the current powermatic guts. There is no comparison. OWWM.org has a current thread on a PM 225 restoration with a picture of old vs new. Eye opener. Dave

[David Nelson1]

Eric, you certainly are a determined soul. Great rehab of ole iron.

[Bruce Page]

Beautiful restro Eric! Are you going to fab/purchase a dust hood for it?

[Eric Patterson]

Beautiful restro Eric! Are you going to fab/purchase a dust hood for it?

Thanks. I did built a dust chute for it out of scrap 1/2" ply with a 4" port. The chute works well. However the volume of chips a 160 can produce is enough to stuff the bag of a small DC in a short period of time. My DC was recently upgraded largely for that reason.

[David Kumm]

Eric, Welcome to the dark side. There is no better feeling than an old machine running smoothly and eating whatever you feed it. You must be good at puzzles to reassemble all that. Do you have a jointer to go with it? Dave

[Eric Patterson]

David

I can answer that two ways. I do not have the knife grinding jointer. It came with the grinding wheel but not the jointer attachment. I need to pick up one of those. Now if you meant a wood jointer I have a 12" Northfield med duty. It's another piece of machinery that is a joy to work with. I'm a hobbyist woodworker who likes to have US made machinery in his shop and don't mind doing it one piece at a time. The restorations take some effort but are rewarding in-and-of themself, as is actually using them when doing woodwork. For me it just makes more sense to buy older stuff and fix it up.

[Frank Drew]

Great photos, Eric; really puts a complete restoration in perspective when you see all the parts involved.

[Don Jarvie]

400 for a Powermatic 16 inch planer is a steal. Look at how much 15-16 inch planers cost and even if you have to put 600 in its still cheap.

Once restored it will be better than anything you can buy at that size.

[keith micinski]

Unfortunately I think the guy might be souring on me. He is supposed to get me some better pictures and is also supposed to see if the motor is good. He lives about 4 hours north of me so we were going to meet halfway in the middle but his last email sounded like I might be asking to many questions and might be too much of a hassle.

[Jim Matthews]

The flip side of old tools:

How do you wish to spend your time; repairing tools, or using them?
This is a MUCH more involved project than the average Joe should take on, without assistance.

If you intend to resell, that's one thing.
If you want to use a tool, and can't see it work - paying more than scrap metal prices is a gamble.

[Larry Edgerton]

At $400 dollars it is a deal and a great machine even if it has to be rebuilt. If it was mine I would be the same way, and if you offered me $200 I would tell you to take a hike. If it was in perfect shape it would not be $400. He knows he can sell it for that money and if you are pushing too hard he can just wait for the next buyer.

If I did not already have a SCM I would snatch it up myself. I saw it on the list and thought about it, but I have too much stuff now.

Larry

[Jerome Hanby]

The guy I bought my Dewalt GWI RAS from had a model really similar to that one that was in good shape. He fired it up and ran a little maple through it just to show it doing it's stuff. Thing was like a force of nature! If I could have spent the money without my wife killing me and had enough muscle to get it home, I'd have bought it on the spot! If you like the idea of restoring an old machine, that one looks like a worthy candidate.

[Bill Rogers]

Keith,

To give you a better idea of what the planer might be worth, there is a similar working Powermatic for sale in Miami, Florida for $3,150.00
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/tls/2397612594.html

Bill

[Jeff Duncan]

I think that's a very reasonable price for that planer, and I don't know anything about the negotiating between you two, but I'd never even entertain the thought of loading a machine and driving an hour or 2 to meet a potential buyer. Offering $200 would also likely kill the process pretty quickly. For a machine like that I'd post it As-Is take it or leave it. Parts alone would fetch more money.

Now as to whether you should buy it....well that's a much different question. Have you done any work on machines? Restoration work? Full breakdowns? Changed a v-belt? As the pics from a previous poster show, planers are not the simplest of tools. Lots of parts that have to be located precisely. Possibly things that need to be machined or replaced from years of use and possibly abuse. Heck replacing all the bearings is a given. Without knowing what your capabilities are I would hesitate to recommend one way or another. Guys get into trouble on deals like this all the time. They buy with the intention of fixing her up, then several months, or sometimes years, later the machine is posted for sale again, except this time it's in pieces....DAMHIK;)

good luck,
JeffD

[keith micinski]

The work isn't the issue. I work at and maintain an asphalt plant so there is nothing there and then some that I haven't done a hundred times before. My problem is everyone keeps saying that it is worth at least the cost of scrap. Well that machine weighs either 1300 or 1600 pounds, I cant figure out which, and right now scrap is going for 250 a ton. That equals 200 bucks or less. This thing can't be run and has been sitting outside for the last year. To me it really has no more value then scrap right now. Even the "its worth more then that in parts" theory isn't holding water for me because some one still has to part it out and then find someone to buy all of those parts. I am not like most people in the fact that just because its old it is automatically better. I like restoring stuff and would actually have fun doing it, but if it is going to cost me 12-1500 bucks all said and done then I would rather have a new G0453z with a spiral cutting head and it isn't even close. The other part of the equation is that realistically doing a full on restoration and making it a 3000 dollar machine isn't really all that attractive to me because what I really need is a planer to plane wood not sit in pieces for the next year while I find time to sand blast things and get them painted. My plan is to clean this thing up and make it work like new not necessarily look like new. I hope the guy gets back with me with more photos so I can at least get a better idea of the shape of this thing but if it doesn't work out at the end of the day I am probably not going to be heart broken.

[keith micinski]

The other problem the seller has is that he lives in the middle of nowhere Michigan (no offense to anyone in nowhere Michigan) so local people looking to buy a 1600 pound machine that doesn't do anything but sit there and be heavy are far and few between. Loading it up and meeting somewhere is almost an inevitability unless the right person comes along at the right time.

[David Kumm]

Keith, if you get into old machines you have to be ready for some expense to get them working to the standards you like. Some serious cleanup, bearings, knives, belts etc. You could easily have your 1200 to 1500 in it. Would I trade a good working PM 160 for a new grizzly with a spiral head? No way. In my book it's not a close call but you have to decide what your answer is. OWWM is not for the faint hearted. It is for those of us who hate to see all the cost cutting measures used to bring in equipment as a certain price. Thin sheet metal, poor welds, mediocre bearings, on and on. I'm not implying that new stuff won't hold up for what we need, but old is also about the satisfaction involved when something was so overbuilt it still outperforms decades later. It isn't all rational. If I had to trade my Porter 16" jointer for an ultimate grizzly all even I'd be looking for a knife and an artery. Other feel the opposite. Dave

[keith micinski]

I definitely understand the allure of old machinery and to a point have a little bit of that bug in me. One thing I will say is that the newer stuff built a little cheaper will definitely meet my needs of a hobbiest wood worker mostly in the winter months.

[Jim Matthews]

Middle of Nowhere? Never heard of it.

Don't know anyone from there abouts, neither.

Does the owner live in a cul-de-sac at on a one way road?

[keith micinski]

Its next to parts unkown and any place north of Grand Rapids.

[Larry Edgerton]

The other problem the seller has is that he lives in the middle of nowhere Michigan (no offense to anyone in nowhere Michigan) so local people looking to buy a 1600 pound machine that doesn't do anything but sit there and be heavy are far and few between. Loading it up and meeting somewhere is almost an inevitability unless the right person comes along at the right time.

I've been to South Bend, and I've been to Fife Lake. I'm thinking he has the better deal.......

[keith micinski]

Ha, ya South Bend is no paradise and we do have the worst whether on the planet but when it comes time to sell something there are actually other humans around that might want to buy it. I am really starting to want this darn planer now and I think it is solely because of the challenge and the fact that I think the seller may be having second thoughts about delivery.

[Jeff Duncan]

OK so it sounds like you have the ability, but do you have the ambition?

It's hard to give good advice as everyone looks at these things a bit differently. For myself I recently bought a Martin shaper that needed work. I bought it for a price I thought reasonable and then sank another $2k and a weeks plus worth of labor into it. I have it up and running but I have a couple other mods that will cost me another $1200+. Was it worth it for me....you betcha. Did I sand and paint....not on your life....though I admit I did clean it a bit. Grizzly doesn't offer a machine at any price that comes close. But I also use my machines daily and wanted a machine I can retire with. For most hobby guys it might not make sense to spend that type of money and time on a machine. The way I looked at it I was getting a machine I could get back to pretty much new condition, at a fraction of the price of a new one.

So what you have to decide is if you really want to rebuild that planer. It may not need it, but you also may not know for sure until you own it. I'm not familiar enough with that machine to make an estimate, but if you just take the givens....new belt(s), new bearings for the motor (or motors, not sure if it has a separate feed?) new bearings for the cutterhead, new knives, new?????. All this to say yeah it's possible, or maybe even likely you'll be into it for $1200+, and a whole bunch of labor hours on top of that! It doesn't sound from your responses like this would be a good machine for you....but only you can make that decision;)

good luck,
JeffD

[keith micinski]

I agree, but if the motor checks out and I can get it for 300 I am probably going to try and get it.

[Jerome Hanby]

I agree, but if the motor checks out and I can get it for 300 I am probably going to try and get it.

I think if things turned, I'd grab it for $300 motor or not. Looks like a 5 HP 240v Baldor might be found for about another $300...

[keith micinski]

Where are you seeing a 240 5 hp Baldor because I am starting to think that it will be cheaper to go that route then to try and get a phase converter going? I know everyone is going to get PO'ed that I want to change it over but I am not going to be buying anymore three phase equipment so it really would be easier to just switch it over and then who knows maybe that 3 ph motor is worth something to someone.

[David Kumm]

Keith, That looks like a direct drive machine. Desireable but more difficult to change out the motor. I don't think that is a coupled motor but rather one that is integral to the cutterhead. If so, a vfd is cheaper. Dave who is not a PM expert.

[keith micinski]

I see what your saying, that makes sense to me. It is starting to look like I am going to have 3-500 in a phase converter which is really starting to put a damper on my enthusiasm.

[adrian williams]

Eric
Hey I'm restoring a 1969 powermatic 160 I see you did this previously and would like to ask if there is anything I should be aware of? Also the paint you used looks to be original to my machine as well. What product did you use? Thanks Adrian. Also looking for gauges and sharpening set up I have the attachment bar only so anyone who knows where to find one would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again