Alternative Table Saw Router Table Extension Question

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

195350Hey everyone! I am wanting to construct/install a router table that will replace the extension on my Unisaw due to my attempt in saving precious space. My shop is 20' x 20' and it's floor space is really becoming a premium for me. I realize this has been posted many times before, but my idea is different than everything I've seen so far posted.
For instance, I've seen numerous extension tables replaced where the user stands at the end of the table. For me, the concern I see with these is that standing at the end of the table, you must pass your wood across the short dimension. I occasionally have had to route edges along some relatively long pieces, and it sure would be more ideal for me to have a longer support for the infeed and outfeed.
By making the router table so that the fence runs parallel to the table saw's rails, it would allow me to have roughly an 18" infeed table and a 45" outfeed table, all while using the the existing extension table, or if that wouldn't be sturdy enough, constructing my own. Of course, this setup requires a different mounting mechanism for the fence, but removing the TS fence is not an issue. The obvious con I see, but doesn't seem to be much of an issue is that the miter gauge will stop once it comes in contact with the CI Table saw surface in the front T-track, but at that point, I've already cleared the router cutterhead by plenty of distance, so I don't anticipate that'd be a problem.
I've attached a schematic of what I'm wanting to accomplish and am seeking suggestions from those that have either tried this or may have whatever input you all can provide (pros/cons). Thanks!

Randy

[glenn bradley]

We are planning to do this for my dad's TS / RT. Other than not being able to clamp various jigs to the no-longer-exposed left hand table edge, we think it is going to be very workable for his layout. Unfortunately, like you we are only in the planning stage and can't speak to any gotchas we might have missed.

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

Glenn,

Yeah, the planning stage is all I'm at right now also. I'm thinking that the router fence (equipped with a T-slot) will still allow various jigs to be clamped (i.e: hold downs/featherboards, etc). Actually, my schematic shows T-tracks installed in the extension table for the router fence. However further thought may be for me to utilize the right TS slot for the left router fence clamp and then install a piece of hardwood off of the right end of the extension table for a T-track and use it as the right side fence clamp. Therefore not requiring me having to rout any groove into the extension table altogether (nor the back TS rail). Granted, this would create a LONG fence, but may not be the best option (about the same length as the Biesemeyer). Also, the front T-track where the miter gauge will normally be can used be utilized to place locking knobs for featherboards from the side of the piece being pushed through. I really think this is a do-able plan and will greatly enhance the ability to work on larger and longer pieces. Honestly, I just don't see any downside to this whole plan. Although the router will still have to be enclosed in order to make dust collection more efficient and to compliment the dust collection behind the router bit.

[Mike Ruggeri]

The big negative I see with that design is that you just about always have to remove the tablesaw fence or you will hit it. To me, that would be a consistent pain. If you need the long outfeed for infrequent use, why not make the fence so it can do both ways (like some shaper fences)? That way for most work you don't have to reposition/remove the tablesaw fence and when you need the longer outfeed then just turn the fence.

Mike

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

Hey Mike,

You raise a very good point for consideration, but for me, removing the TS fence really isn't that much of a pain for me as I've done it so many times. The biggest reason I am considering this type of layout is because of my dust collection pipe that drops from the ceiling to the right rear corner of my TS prevents me from being able to stand off the extension table end for routing applications (attached photo). Moving that large pipe would be too much of a pain for me and would really rather not have to move that at all. Although, this setup "would" require me to remove the router table fence once completed. That would take a bit more time (loosening the locking screws in the T-track and sliding it off the table) than removing the TS fence, which just lifts right off in only 1 second. This would require me to make sure I have all my TS cuts made ahead of time THEN use the RT so as to limit the amount of times I have to remove the RT fence. Hmmmmm....decisions, decisions:) Thanks for your input Mike.

195386

[Rick Potter]

I did one that way. Have it set up with a semi permanent roundover bit. My fence swivels on a knob/bolt on one side going into a 'T' nut in the table. The other end of the fence has a clamp that wraps around the end of the side table, and allows the fence to move enough for any bit I will ever use there. Works good, and as you say, the outfeed side is the table saw table. I also wired in a plugged switch for convenience. The fence comes off and on in about one minute.

Rick Potter

[Jim O'Dell]

I can understand the DC pipe getting in the way. What about placing the router on the left side? If you want to work on longer pieces and need more surface area, use your table saws outfeed table for double duty with the router. If you need something on the input, use a roller stand or Ridgid Flip top stand, or make a mobile home-built stand that could double to help stage and hold sheet goods as an input table. That way your TS fence could have an add on fence for the router with dust collection built in. I have a separate router table, and didn't put a t-track or slot in it at all. My router fence gives me a straight edge to run wood against to route the edges on. Haven't missed having the slot yet. If I need extra outfeed for long pieces, the RT is the same height as the two table saws and the outfeed table that is used with them. RT is mobile, so easy enough to move it over. It will make hooking up the DC pipe a little tougher. Jim.

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

I did one that way. Have it set up with a semi permanent roundover bit. My fence swivels on a knob/bolt on one side going into a 'T' nut in the table. The other end of the fence has a clamp that wraps around the end of the side table, and allows the fence to move enough for any bit I will ever use there. Works good, and as you say, the outfeed side is the table saw table. I also wired in a plugged switch for convenience. The fence comes off and on in about one minute.

Rick Potter

Thanks for the input Rick. Would you by chance have any photos of your setup I could see?

[glenn bradley]

The big negative I see with that design is that you just about always have to remove the tablesaw fence or you will hit it. To me, that would be a consistent pain.


but for me, removing the TS fence really isn't that much of a pain for me as I've done it so many times.

Mike raises a good point but like you, I find lifting the fence off and setting itin its cradles to not be a big deal. I also change blades for different cuts and some folks want to strap a single do-all blade on and change it when its dead. Different things will bug different people.


I can understand the DC pipe getting in the way. What about placing the router on the left side?

I too am a proponent of the router extension on the left and have done so but, my left tilt cabinet door is on the right; not common. I also left the normal left wing in place and and added my RT from that point on so my tilt wheel which is on the left is easily accessible.

My right rear area is a DC and power "drop-zone" like Randy so anything beyond my rip fence rail capacity is "no man's land" If I need to cut larger than that I just cut the "other" piece off ;-) The table on the left would pretty much eliminate the tablesaw fence bing in the feed path though so, that could work out. Just factor all this good stuff in and do what works best in your layout.

[Jerome Hanby]

If you aren't locked unto that right angle configuration, you could go with the Incra Joinery solution and have the super accuracy and repeatability for the saw and router.

195418

One drawback is that you loose the table saw setup when you set the router setup and vice versa. Of course all the fine adjustments make it pretty quick and easy to restore settings...

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

[QUOTE=Jim O'Dell;1707686]I can understand the DC pipe getting in the way. What about placing the router on the left side?

Hi Jim! Yep, I thought about using the left side of the TS also, but I currently have 3 machines only about 2 feet off the left side of the TS that would make for a very cramped or even impassible walkway (Shaper, floor drill press and 17" bandsaw). It is also the main entrance we use to enter the house most times and the LOML would probably not like if I did that one. Also, it would limit the amount of infeed space for long stock I may need to rout - even if I used the rollers for support. Seems I would be limited to about a 3-4 foot piece only before I hit the tool cart and wall on the infeed side. I keep shifting back in forth in my decision whether or not I should just built a good RT and make it mobile as you stated or go the TS extention table way. I do have a space to the left of my jointer (as seen in my previous post photo) where I could store the RT when not used, but I'd also like to keep that space open for when I get my 15" planer (it's on my wish list:)) and use that space to store it. My biggest issue right now is trying to develop a quick and simple way to either move or remove the RT fence from the extension table when not in use so as to not create further limitations for my TS fence. WAIT! I just figured it out on what I can do! I'll just tell my wife I'm building a 40' x 40' workshop out back! Now I just need to ask her for $30K to do it:) Thanks for the input Jim - always appreciated:)

195417

[glenn bradley]

WAIT! I just figured it out on what I can do! I'll just tell my wife I'm building a 40' x 40' workshop out back! Now I just need to ask her for $30K to do it:)

Wait, I have another solution; send your shaper, floor drill press and 17" bandsaw to me. I will hold onto them for you. I'll PM you my address . . .

[Alan Bienlein]

I have the same situation as you do for dust collection. Here is how mine is set up and have had no problems with doing raised panel doors, beaded face frames and intricate moldings. I use my out feed table for support and I have the whole table saw surface for pieces the extra wide and I can still cross cut up to 49" if I need too.

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

Wait, I have another solution; send your shaper, floor drill press and 17" bandsaw to me. I will hold onto them for you. I'll PM you my address . . .

LOL! Actually Glenn, I was thinking sort of the same...BUT for you to send ME your router table AND your 15" planer (since I'm wanting one anyhow) and that would solve my problem altogether also,while knocking out two birds with one stone:)

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

I have the same situation as you do for dust collection. Here is how mine is set up and have had no problems with doing raised panel doors, beaded face frames and intricate moldings. I use my out feed table for support and I have the whole table saw surface for pieces the extra wide and I can still cross cut up to 49" if I need too.

Interesting setup Alan! I believe I may be able to incorporate some of these ideas of your to my plan also. Looks like the PRL VII lift you're using, correct? That is the one I'm wanting to get also. I've read alot of great reviews on it. I also like how you installed the wye into your RT as the second RT port. Is that a 4" flex hose to the top of your RT fence? So, even though you are using the "short" end of your extension table for the infeed and outfeed, you don't have any problems? I just thought doing it that way would cause substantial leaning over the table for the outfeed side. (???) Thanks for the input and pics!

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

If you aren't locked unto that right angle configuration, you could go with the Incra Joinery solution and have the super accuracy and repeatability for the saw and router.

195418

One drawback is that you loose the table saw setup when you set the router setup and vice versa. Of course all the fine adjustments make it pretty quick and easy to restore settings...

Hey Jerome! As much as I would love to have a fence system like that one due to its accuracy and repeatability as you stated, it's just not in my budget. Also, this system, I believe, would present the same issue I'm having right now with an independent TS and RT fence system - basically using one or the other, but not both at the same time. Not sure if there is a good way around that except for having a separate RT from the table. Although the pic that Alan posted a bit earlier seems like a viable solution to use both applications at the same time, but still requires me to use the "short end" of the extension table for infeed and outfeed for the RT. Thanks for the input Jerome - hopefully I'll have a decision sometime soon on which direction to go. Either way I look at it, there are pros and cons, which is fine and to be exptected as long as it doesn't make me second guess myself in whatever plan I implement:)

[Alan Bienlein]

Interesting setup Alan! I believe I may be able to incorporate some of these ideas of your to my plan also. Looks like the PRL VII lift you're using, correct? That is the one I'm wanting to get also. I've read alot of great reviews on it. I also like how you installed the wye into your RT as the second RT port. Is that a 4" flex hose to the top of your RT fence? So, even though you are using the "short" end of your extension table for the infeed and outfeed, you don't have any problems? I just thought doing it that way would cause substantial leaning over the table for the outfeed side. (???) Thanks for the input and pics!

Yes it's the prl v2 I'm using and I love it. I was able to get it with the aluminum inserts. As for dust collection I'm using 4" flex connected to the fence and I also have a 4" port to the underside. I studied a lot of other router table designs and I think i solved the problem a lot of them had with not getting all of the dust from the underside.

I raised the height of my table saw/router table by an inch to make it more comfortable for me to use as I'm 6'-3" tall. For me it just seems natural to use the router table in this way. If you think about it it's no different than ripping a piece of wood on a table saw as far as reach is concerned.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I'm in the left extension camp. This way stock is fed same direction as for saw. You can edge profile a piece and then saw off profile without having to reset saw fence. This becomes very important when making a bunch of molding. Tap a couple holes in the saw top for attaching fence for router table.

[Mike Nguyen]

Here's what I did. I can route with the direction of the table saw for shorter pieces or the other direction for longer ones. With an incra fence I can also do dovetails, box joint...195487195485195486.195489
Mike

[Joe Angrisani]

Randy....
Just thinking out loud....

I don't know your set-up regarding things around your saw table, but perhaps you could make the "router table" sit on the extension table at an angle. The below-table stuff (any dust collection box, for instance) would be normally oriented with one side parallel to a miter slot. The above-table fence and dust collection assembly could be clamped down diagonally so you fed from back right to front left.

Depending on what's behind you in your shop, the angle you can use may allow you to slide the saw fence to the extreme left, and have room to outfeed onto your existing flip-up extension table (to the right of the parked saw fence). If you're in the 'smaller cut' phase of a project, there would probably still be room to simply slide the saw fence into position for cuts without taking down off the router fence assembly.

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

Randy....
Just thinking out loud....

I don't know your set-up regarding things around your saw table, but perhaps you could make the "router table" sit on the extension table at an angle. The below-table stuff (any dust collection box, for instance) would be normally oriented with one side parallel to a miter slot. The above-table fence and dust collection assembly could be clamped down diagonally so you fed from back right to front left.

Depending on what's behind you in your shop, the angle you can use may allow you to slide the saw fence to the extreme left, and have room to outfeed onto your existing flip-up extension table (to the right of the parked saw fence). If you're in the 'smaller cut' phase of a project, there would probably still be room to simply slide the saw fence into position for cuts without taking down off the router fence assembly.

Hey Joe! Question: Are you a mind-reader? Last night, I was sitting out in my shop (which I do often actually) and staring at my TS regarding this whole RT planning process. I thought to myself "Hmmm...what IF I set this up at an angle - say 45 degrees or so, thus giving me maximum length for stock and still be able to provide good infeed/outfeed support into my rear extension table. Also, wouldn't require me to remove the TS fence." Also, I could devise some T-track at both the rear TS rail and at the far right end of the ext. table, so when I'm not using the RT and fence, I just slide it to the extreme right hand side, therefore still giving me maximum TS fence capacity (@50"). Great minds think alike apparently Joe:) This is definitely a possibility. Thanks for validating my same thought process!

Randy

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

Here's what I did. I can route with the direction of the table saw for shorter pieces or the other direction for longer ones. With an incra fence I can also do dovetails, box joint...195487195485195486.195489
Mike

Mike,

BINGO! I think you nailed it! Your setup is the one I'm going with. Provides multiple setup possibilities, doesn't interfere with the fence (with prior planning as to which direction the RT fence will be installed), versatility, etc. The only change I will look into making (if even possible) is intersecting the long T-track and the short (front) T-track, so I can have maximum capacity for a sled. If not, that is okay and don't think it'd be an issue since your design (again) provides alot of versatility given the cut requirement.
A couple questions:
1. is that just regular laminate you used on the top?
2. what is that you used for the sides? Looks like maple.
3. How do you secure the end board for the incra fence to your table?
4. and lastly, how did you "color-match" the holes in the laminate at the end of your short tracks to blend in with the table?
Thanks for the photos Mike:)

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

Everyone,

I just want to give a big THANK YOU to eveyone who contributed to this thread! I am going to incorporate the design Mike Nguyen did on his TS, however will surely incorporate some other ideas that many have posted throughout this thread. Alot of great collaboration/ideas and would be a shame to not adequately address all resonses. This is what makes this site so GREAT! Knowledeable people who are always looking to improve an already enjoyable hobby:) Now all I have to do is save up the money to purchase the lift I'm wanting, get another router motor, and go from there. Once I complete it (not sure when but hopefully in the not too distant future), I'll be sure to share with everyone the final product...with pics of course:) Thanks all!!

Randy

[Mike Nguyen]

Hi Randy,

Which lift are you considering. I currently have the new Jessem Mast-R-Lift II on my dedicated router table with a PC 7518. On the table saw I have the Incra plate with the big Triton. I also have a Bench Dog Pro plate. I found that Incra magna ring insert is the best because it's so easy to pop the insert in and out. I don't know why but I always have to remove the ring insert to change bit all the time and that's why I have multiple router set up. I am thinking about replacing the left side of the table saw and put the extra bench dog proplate with a Ridgid router that I have sitting collecting dust. If I buy another lift, it will be an Incra Mast-R-Lift II. Why? Because of the convenience of the ring insert and the Mast-R-Left II will work with most routers without the adapter for different size of routers.

About the sled, I found that it's easier for me to use the fence than to use the miter slot.

Mike

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

Hi Randy,

Which lift are you considering. I currently have the new Jessem Mast-R-Lift II on my dedicated router table with a PC 7518. On the table saw I have the Incra plate with the big Triton. I also have a Bench Dog Pro plate. I found that Incra magna ring insert is the best because it's so easy to pop the insert in and out. I don't know why but I always have to remove the ring insert to change bit all the time and that's why I have multiple router set up. I am thinking about replacing the left side of the table saw and put the extra bench dog proplate with a Ridgid router that I have sitting collecting dust. If I buy another lift, it will be an Incra Mast-R-Lift II. Why? Because of the convenience of the ring insert and the Mast-R-Left II will work with most routers without the adapter for different size of routers.

About the sled, I found that it's easier for me to use the fence than to use the miter slot.

Mike

Mike,

I currently have a shaper and use the sled for when using that. But I thought the sled could also be used on the RT for coping end grain or for stile/rail applications (mostly thinner stock). I'm really looking at the PRL v2 lift. Incra and Woodpecker joined teams and incorporated the best of both worlds (according to reviews). Whereas, a quality Woodpecker lift with the Incra magna ring inserts. But then again, the PRL v2 appears to be a really great lift either with the magna inserts OR with the rings. Most applications I do just use the fence though. Also, I would probably utilize the T-tracks more for lock knobs for featherboards and such.

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

[QUOTE=Alan Bienlein;1708038]I studied a lot of other router table designs and I think i solved the problem a lot of them had with not getting all of the dust from the underside. QUOTE]

Alan,
Could you clarify regarding how you solved the problem of getting all the dust from beneath or maybe post a couple of pics showing your setup? Thanks.

[Rick Potter]

Randy,

I tried for over two hours the other night to get you a pic of my setup, I even got a couple test pics up, but I could not get new ones to go. If you send me an e-mail, I might be able to reply with a pic.?

Mine is a lot like Mike's, but a lot simpler. I have a couple router tables, and a shaper, and only use this for quick roundovers, or edge treatments. Took some great pics of it.....honest. This is my curse...computer illiterate, and why I never get a 'YOU SUCK' when I find a deal. One of these days.....

Rick P

[Randy Dutkiewicz]

Rick,

No problem bud! Just sent you an email:)