Turning protection

[Greg Ketell]

Ok, this is something I've been thinking about since I read of the first turning accident years ago.

In another thread Curt talks about flying turnings breaking 3/4" MDF shelves and denting refrigerators 15' away. In my own experience the bowl came off the lathe and flew all the way across the garage and hit my bench and then rolled another 10-15 feet before it came to a stop.

Everyone is quick to say "get a face shield", and I have and everyone should, without a doubt. But that is only a small part of your body that needs protection.

What about chest protection? Any piece of heavy, fast moving wood like those described above would cave in your chest pretty easily. And it doesn't even need to break any bones to kill you: there have been baseball players and basketball players who've had their hearts stopped by a hit to the chest in just the right place and just the wrong time. They lived because there were people around watching them that came to there rescue.

Does anyone protect their chest? Motocross chest protector? Umpire's gear? Keeping your cage on your lathe and actually using it??

I'm not too shy to say that I truly feared for my life when I was turning that manzanita bowl a while ago. And that is when I really started thinking about this.

Thoughts?

[Rich Aldrich]

Greg,

When I started turning the Spring of 2010, I used the guard for a while. It seems to be in the way, so I quit using it. It is still on the lathe and lately have been using it for a shelf, which adds more danger.

I am going to start using it again. I think most people treat guards like seat belts.

I like the timing of our posts, really close. I dont know if the poll was up yet when you responded, but please vote.

[Greg Ketell]

Greg,
I think most people treat guards like seat belts.

Maybe we need to get the vendors involved and have them do the same: If you don't have your guard down and locked the lathe chimes at you non-stop. :)


I like the timing of our posts, really close. I dont know if the poll was up yet when you responded, but please vote.

Very close. And I was the first to vote and reply. :p

[Larry Marley]

Here is what I now wear....

195351

[Dick Wilson]

Here is what I now wear....

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Larry, I like your garb. Very stylish:eek::eek::):D:D:D I notice that because of the obvious discomfort of having it a full suit you use your hands to protect the important regions. Now the question I have is who does the turning:confused::confused::confused::confused::co nfused::confused:

[Larry Marley]

Would you believe, careful placement of the tool rest?

[Bill Luce]

Most dangerous thing I see turners do alot is stand in the line of fire while roughing. To be honest, I think that efficient roughing techniques should be stressed more during turning demos. I tried to cover that a bit in more depth last time I demoed in Utah.

Fast easy safer roughing is a major breakthrough once's it's figure out. Even with full time turners, some really still get more beat up by the wood and gouge than necessary.

[Bill Wyko]

Honestly, if we just take a very short moment before we hit the on switch in respect for those not so lucky, it'll allow us to ask ourselves if everything is in place to use the tool safely.

[Greg Ketell]

I like this!

[Scott Hackler]

While I am all for safety and protecting yourself from flying wood....I think something needs to be said about tool technique and turning practices. I have been reading a lot about flying chunks of wood on this and other sites and it appears that some turners seem to have more incidents than others. Why is this, is the question everyone should be asking.

I have only been turning for a couple years and I have had several pieces come flying off the chuck. In almost every instance I can blame it on the idiot holding the tool and the way it was held against the wood. A couple other times it was because I tried to chuck up a punky piece that I knew better. Either way, MY FAULT. Inexperience was the major contributor.

As my skills have improved, the occurances of flying blanks have decreased. I have only really been "hit" once, in the bicept, and it was my fault.

My point is that if you experience a lot of flying blanks or chunks of wood....maybe you should re-examine your technique. I don't like wearing the el-cheapo face shield I own and wont wear it unless I sense a high probability of debri hitting me. Its uncomfortable and hard to see details through. Having said that, I will be looking at other options while in St Paul. We will see.

[Donny Lawson]

I do wear a facesheild when turning but as far as anything else,I have not. I try to be careful when I put something in the chuck but I know there is always a possibility of something comming loose. So far I've only slung one nice bowl across the room. It was scary but I know it happens. I'm just glad it went in the other direction and not toward me.

[CW McClellan]

Not only motor cycles & cars SPEED KILLS
I have not read of a turner being killed or fatial injury from a spring pole or treddle lathe
Be not in such a hurry to get it done
They in the past have made articles as pretty as todays
Safety Pays

[Dennis Simmons]

A wood lathe is like any other item in our world, you can abuse it, over power it, run it to fast. If a blank is unbalenced, are you know there are splits, or bark that can fly off, then use a face shield, take it easy, however when your number comes up, it is time to go. Forrest Gump said, " Stuff Happens" and that is all I have to say about that!!

[Brian Ashton]

I don't think you need to worry about the rest of your body. The tool rest and base usually deflect (and thus reduce the energy) any sizable shrapnel from hitting you anywhere below the neck. I also think if someone were to take a hit below the neck you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that has had anymore than a bruise to show for it.

In all the time I've been turning everything seems to fly out the back, up or into my face. I guess it's possible that the tool could dislodge a chunk and it travel down your arms and such but it's not happened to me. I've had a piece come loose and snap the tool rest post on an old cast tool rest but that's about it. But I would suspect that you hands and forearms would take the brunt of the impact not the rest of your body.

When you consider... an 18" piece of wood spinning at 1000rpm and it were to break free the fastest that piece could travel is about 55mph; which isn't all that fast really. Certainly will hive you a heck of a thump in the face, or loose an eye as a friend did when the lense from his glasses was pushed into his eye, but not enough to really put your body in danger... Especially when you compare it to being hit in the ribs by a 80mph fastball without a chest protector


Ok, this is something I've been thinking about since I read of the first turning accident years ago.

In another thread Curt talks about flying turnings breaking 3/4" MDF shelves and denting refrigerators 15' away. In my own experience the bowl came off the lathe and flew all the way across the garage and hit my bench and then rolled another 10-15 feet before it came to a stop.

Everyone is quick to say "get a face shield", and I have and everyone should, without a doubt. But that is only a small part of your body that needs protection.

What about chest protection? Any piece of heavy, fast moving wood like those described above would cave in your chest pretty easily. And it doesn't even need to break any bones to kill you: there have been baseball players and basketball players who've had their hearts stopped by a hit to the chest in just the right place and just the wrong time. They lived because there were people around watching them that came to there rescue.

Does anyone protect their chest? Motocross chest protector? Umpire's gear? Keeping your cage on your lathe and actually using it??

I'm not too shy to say that I truly feared for my life when I was turning that manzanita bowl a while ago. And that is when I really started thinking about this.

Thoughts?

[Karl Card]

Protection is good, so are good reflexes... seriously... I have actually had people ask me "why do they put them cages on them wood lathes for?"..... if you have to ask you may not need one...lol

[Roy Turbett]

Any calculation of force must also include the mass of the object. A 5.25 oz baseball traveling at 55 MPH is not the same as 5.25 lb chunk of wood traveling at 55 mph. The force exerted is nearly 20 times greater. And an 18" piece of wood could easily weigh much more than that.

[Keith E Byrd]

Most dangerous thing I see turners do alot is stand in the line of fire while roughing. To be honest, I think that efficient roughing techniques should be stressed more during turning demos. I tried to cover that a bit in more depth last time I demoed in Utah.

Fast easy safer roughing is a major breakthrough once's it's figure out. Even with full time turners, some really still get more beat up by the wood and gouge than necessary.

I don't know if this is new or not - it was a new insight for me. On the last two bowls I turned I started at the bottom of the bowl turning the bark off and working my way around to the edge. It was much easier to get the bowl turned and balanced than starting at top of the bowl.

[Jack Mincey]

Wearing a face shield and any other safety devices is a good thing, but turning a 18" bowl at anywhere near a 1000 rpm's will generate enough energy to cause one serious injury face shield or not. I've seen my high school students send many blanks off the lathe and they all did no more than roll around. The one rule that kept these from being bad injury's is that the lathe speed is never over 800rpms for their 10" to 12" bowls that most of them turn. I have turned a number of 18" bowls and my students have turned a few and the rpms never got over 500 for these larger bowls. When bad things happen at the lathe speed is your number one enemy. I enjoy the process of turning and do not want to be in a hurry anyway. I haven't read any facts other than what have been posted about the terrible accident, but it seems that a bowl blank separated in this incident. I have a friend who has that happened twice in his turning and both times he was lucky to just have a glancing blow that left him with major bruises on his arms. Both times my friend was turning wood that had faults are inclusions in them so bad that he had used duck tape around the bowl to give it support while hollowing. He also turns at a much higher speed than needed for the process. I just don't think it is worth the risk to turn bowls from blanks that are not sound and free of any major flaws in their structure. In my experience a bowl coming of the lathe intact acts much like a tire coming of a car and will roll where it wants to go but a blank or bowl separating on the lathe is much like putting a chunk of wood in a catapult and throwing it with a great deal of force.
Safe Turning Everyone,
Jack Mincey

[Hilel Salomon]

I always hate to give advice on a forum where 90% of the turners are far more expert than I am.... but here goes. Until a blank is truly rounded and is turning smoothly, I use a the tailstock live center (I've got various types) to push it toward the tenon or faceplate holding the block on the headstock. I also use the tailstock as often as possible when reverse turning with a vacuum and when coring (easier to do with Oneway corers than with McNaughton systems). I use tailstock extenders (sometimes in tandem) when the distance is substantial. Do I always use live centers? No, but usually that means that I'm facing the front or back of the bowl and I'm not in the line of fire.
Now, if I may, I'd like to take issue with some of you who suggested that an experienced turner always knows when it is unsafe. There can be internal stresses that are not visible and a bowl can crack from the inside. I've had that happen. Lastly, I have two lathes, one in VA (a DVR XP) and one in SC (PM3520B). Generally, the latter is heavier duty ... but it has one failing. Unless you turn the speed dial down after you've finished working on a piece and disconnect the machine, the lathe will start turning at whatever speed you left it in. Not so with the DVR. If you happen to be doing high speed spindle work and forget to turn it back down, but switch to a bowl blank...... Beware!

[Russell Eaton]

Greg I have had a couple of close calls. The first one made me start wearing my face shield ALL the time. It took a while to fine one that is comfortable to wear, I shave my head and don't like the plastic feel. I was turning about 2 months ago, it was a Myrtle burl, and had a rock fly out of the wood and hit right at my left eye. I was glad that I had it on. No warning at all on a solid piece of wood. I wear safety glasses when I sand or do small projects like pens and small boxes. I am sure we have all had some close calls, but we need to keep safety first so we can enjoy this passion that we call a hobby.

[Alan Trout]

I turn some pretty cruddy stuff. Lots of inclusions, faults, out of balance etc. I always were a face shield when I am rough turning these items. But I don't always wear a face shield. For example when I am hollowing I have a steady rest supporting and surrounding the form and I am not standing in any part of the rotation. However I like Hilel feel the most important piece of safety equipment is the tailstock. All my pieces are started between centers but even when there is a tenon on the piece and it is secured in the chuck and I am finishing the form shape the tailstock is in place. I see far to many people screw a blank to a faceplate and just go rough out a piece without the tailstock. This also goes for the insides of bowls as well. That tailstock needs to be there most of the time.

Safety should always be a consideration. But it is also impossible to mitigate all risk. I wish we could. I accept the risk in turning and I constantly try to look at my procedures to see where I can improve. A tragedy such as what happened to Joan is a reminder to all of us to watch what and how we do things and that really unexpected bad things can happen. I wish we knew exactly what occurred but being that no one was in the room when it happened we will not know the exact circumstances behind the accident. Of course my thoughts and prayers are with Joan, and her family and friends.

Everyone be safe,

Alan

[Harry Robinette]

The one that gets me is ,My Glasses Are Safety there polycarbonate. WRONG !!!!!THE LENSES ARE SHATTER PROOF BUT THE FRAMES WILL BRAKE AND BEND AND HURT AND CUT YOU. You have to by OSHA APPROVED,TO GET FRAMES AND LENSES THAT ARE SAFETY.

[Don Alexander]

personally i think anyone who turns an 18" anything at 1000rpm is just plain crazy same applies for turning anything at speeds that cause massive dents in freezers , break shelves or windows or generally endangers anything other than your toes if it comes off the lathe

the single most important safety device in existence anywhere is between your ears , and thus should be the very first thing turned on , put on gear before anything else

THINK safety emphasis on THINK

[Jeff Nicol]

If you notice the biggest culprit and has been mentioned by many it is most times one of 3 things:

Human error ,Speed and being in a hurry

[Douglas Quetin]

Ok, this is something I've been thinking about since I read of the first turning accident years ago.

In another thread Curt talks about flying turnings breaking 3/4" MDF shelves and denting refrigerators 15' away. In my own experience the bowl came off the lathe and flew all the way across the garage and hit my bench and then rolled another 10-15 feet before it came to a stop.

Everyone is quick to say "get a face shield", and I have and everyone should, without a doubt. But that is only a small part of your body that needs protection.

What about chest protection? Any piece of heavy, fast moving wood like those described above would cave in your chest pretty easily. And it doesn't even need to break any bones to kill you: there have been baseball players and basketball players who've had their hearts stopped by a hit to the chest in just the right place and just the wrong time. They lived because there were people around watching them that came to there rescue.

Does anyone protect their chest? Motocross chest protector? Umpire's gear? Keeping your cage on your lathe and actually using it??

I'm not too shy to say that I truly feared for my life when I was turning that manzanita bowl a while ago. And that is when I really started thinking about this.

Thoughts?


In addition to Jeff's wise admonition of human error, speed, and hurrying, I'm convinced tiredness is also very important. Maybe it's because I'm an old dog at 61, but I've found working at the lathe or any other powered tool is not a good idea late in the day. Most of my past accidents have happened late, sometimes because of hurrying to finish, and sometimes just plain being tired and, hence, careless. Here are my personal rules I try to implement: 3:30--start finishing up for the day, 4:00--clean up, 5:00--plan for tomorrow including all the set up, 5:30--sit on the swing in the garden with my lady, have a glass of wine, and be thankful for my life and another day.

By the way, can someone let me know how to attach a photo. Thanks.

[John Hart]

Ok...I spent a little time today calculating speed and I made a little table.

Now...here are some considerations. First off, a major league pitcher throws a fastball around 90 MPH but, they are throwing over 50 feet (600 inches) and it is a sphere. Wood from your lathe is 12 inches away and it is broken and pointy. Reaction time is key.

Also..image yourself standing at the side of the road with your eyes closed. A car approaches at 25 mph with the passenger holding a 6" wood bowl out the window. Better yet...imagine 40 mph.

Also...Human reaction time is somewhere around 200 milliseconds.

Here's my chart
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[Bob Bergstrom]

I've been turning some 38 years and my most scary moment is when a I blew up a piece of nice myrtle wood. It exploded and and pieces went basically like the spokes on a wheel. It wasn't the pieces that became the problem, but the bare florescent lite above my lathe and head. Pieces hit the two bulbs and I was showered me with glass and powder from the inside of the bulbs. I now have a plastic cover over those bulbs. I think it may be important to realize anything in the fly zone could be hazardous to your health.

[ray hampton]

do you know the name of the powder inside of the light tubes

[John Hart]

do you know the name of the powder inside of the light tubes

I think it's called Blub Powder

[Lee Koepke]

I've been turning some 38 years and my most scary moment is when a I blew up a piece of nice myrtle wood. It exploded and and pieces went basically like the spokes on a wheel. It wasn't the pieces that became the problem, but the bare florescent lite above my lathe and head. Pieces hit the two bulbs and I was showered me with glass and powder from the inside of the bulbs. I now have a plastic cover over those bulbs. I think it may be important to realize anything in the fly zone could be hazardous to your health.
i have had two of those plastic covers melt and almost catch fire ..... just one more thing in our shops to be wary of !!!!