Aluminum Pie Pans! Marking Advice / Alternatives

[Jason Saul]

Hi everyone - Working on this fun prototype of a pie pan signage and they provided this aluminum sample, which I engraved with a slow speed of 5% on my 30 watt epilog using Cermark LMM-6000. It looks decent BUT it rubs off pretty easily (see the M and P in attached photo) and I'm wondering the following:

- Should I obtain/suggest a stainless steel pan instead? (I've done steel coffee tumblers that seems to hold up much better)

- Should I consider pouring/spraying a lacquer inside to protect the mark once it's complete? Perhaps a self-leveling lacquer?

- What other material would you suggest to engrave and then glue inside the pan if I were to go that direction?

Thanks for your time and advice!

195177

[Amy Shelton]

I just engraved some aluminum parts. The LMM-6000 could be rubbed off with a scrubby pad.
I used LMM-14 which did much better, but it could still be rubbed off (with a lot of time and pressure).
I'm not sure, hopefully some experts will chime in, but I think aluminum is so soft, that no matter what you put on it,
it will still rub off since the surface itself can be abraded.

My suggestion is to go with your first option you said... use stainless steel.
I've never had an unsuccessful mark with LMM-6000 on stainless -- IF I had it focused correctly, and cleaned off well.

I don't think you would need a coating. If you wanted to engrave something separately to put in it, you could use Metalgraph or any kind of laserable plastic.
I think the stainless steel would look better, though.

[Mike Null]

If it's just signage then a lacquer or acrylic should work. I quit using Thermark/Cermark on aluminum as I have had zero success.

If you have the option laser sublimation might or CLTT might be a better alternative.

[Jason Saul]

Amy and Mike - THANKS! I think suggesting the stainless steel option is going to be the way I go - Have a great day! :D

[Dan Hintz]

Jason/Amy,

Aluminum is a perfectly acceptable substrate, but since it dissipates heat much faster than stainless you have to pour in more heat to get a good mark. If it's rubbing off, you're not going slow enough. To keep up rigidity, an aluminum item will have to be thicker than an equivalent SS item, which compounds the issue.


Jason, if they will accept SS without an argument, it may behoove you to switch now and be done with it. If they're really hoping for aluminum, slow it down and maybe even run a few more test pattersn.

[Mike Null]

Dan

On thin aluminum and even brass the heat dissipates so rapidly that high power and slow speed frequently don't do the trick. It's a risk at best.

If you have a beast of a machine then you wind up melting the aluminum. Trust me, I've severely distorted thin stainless with my 45 watt machine.

[Steve Rozwood]

Jason/ Amy,
Dan is right, depending on the overall speed of your machine, you'll need at the least a 45 watt laser to generate enough energy for the laser mark to be durable. Remember that aluminum is a large heat sink, and will absorb the heat generated by the laser needed to bond our material to the aluminum. Also, the thicker the aluminum the more this will become a problem. Long story short, this can be done with a laser that has enough power to do the job. Even with a 45-watt laser you will be using 100% power and around 5% speed.
Jason, sometimes aluminum pie pans have a non stick coating applied to them for baking. The coating will interfear LMM-6000 bonding to the actual metal itself.
Amy, I see you have a 50 -watt laser, you'll need to run test marks to optimize your power settings.
We recommend marking a test power grid on a scrap piece to optimize your power settings whenever possible. Mark a series of test squares and text using 100% power and varying your write speed. If your laser is powerful enough, you should be able to see the point at which the mark starts turning brownish. Use speed settings to make your mark that are just before that point. Changing your machines hatching will also increase the amount of "confined" heat in the area you would like to get a mark.
Another factor that can work against you is the aluminum durability itself. Aluminum is a very soft metal, and the marks are usually only as durable as the metal they are bonded to. When bonded to a soft metal, if you rub hard enough to remove metal, chances are you will remove some of the mark too.

Sometimes you can make a mark and it will look good initially, but if too little power is used, it will slowly wear off the metal. You can check the mark after you make it by scrubbing on it hard with a brillo pad, scratching it with a knife, or rubbing it with sandpaper. If you can rub or scratch the mark off, you need to use more power. The mark should be at least as tough as the metal it is on, you shouldn't be able to scratch the mark off without damaging the metal too.

[Mike Null]

Steve

Thanks for your post and the samples.

[Dan Hintz]

Trust me, I've severely distorted thin stainless with my 45 watt machine.
Been there, done that :( Luckily it was only a test sheet during my first run with Cermark years back, but after a few squares it was so warped it was unusable.

[Jason Saul]

Thanks to everyone for the added input and information! I've had great results with Cermark on stainless steel and the client with the pans isn't opposed to switching over! Also, my machine at 30 watts was running at 5% speed and it definitely wasn't enough for a permanent mark . . . time to start saving up for a more beastly laser! Have a great weekend y'all :]

[AL Ursich]

Will the pans be used for Food?

AL

[Roy Nicholson]

That woulds be my query of there is any possibility that the part may be used for food I'd avoid any lacquer etc. It would have to be food safea dn I'd p[refer nto tio risk it.


Regadrs

Nicho

[Jason Saul]

Al and Roy - Nope, these will be bolted to the walls for signage! Thanks for your concern/input though!