How many use a router lift vs directly mounting to a table?

[Bill Wyko]

While enjoying a cigar and drinks with some of my fellow woodworkers, the comment was made that very few people use lifts. I disagreed. So now I ask you guys, to lift or not to lift, that is the question.:D

[richard poitras]

Jointec digital lift in my barn.

[glenn bradley]

I imagine that statement was made by someone who does not use a lift . . . or perhaps someone who does who wants to feel special(:confused:). I too disagree; PRLs with 5625's here. Many above average tools are in the hands of home enthusiasts now. I must admit that like electric side mirrors on a car, if I'd never had one I would never have known how convenient it can be.

[Phil Thien]

I rarely used a hand-held, I do almost everything with my router table outfitted w/ a lift.

[Mike Henderson]

For years I used a PC890 directly attached to my table, and adjusted the depth with the depth adjuster on the fixed base. Worked well and wasn't too hard to do. One of the lift companies had a special and I was able to get a lift for a low price so I use that now. It's a bit more convenient.

But if I hadn't been able to get a lift at a low price, I'd still be using the fixed base and I'd still be happy with it.

For a beginning woodworker on a budget, I'd not recommend the purchase of a lift. You can do very well with the fixed base in a table and spend your money on other things that will give you a better bang for the buck. When you get caught up, then buy a router lift.

Mike

[Larry Anderson]

I too used an 890 in the table until I got a lift on sale.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I have a Triton with above-table bit changes and height adjustment, so no lift for me. I can't see any advantage to a lift, when compared to modern routers offering above-the-table adjustment built-in.

[Mike Harrison]

For several years I used a PC7518 under a table, I didn't need to spend all that money. Used a PRL at a friends shop, and that was it. Bought me a PRL with a set of the inserts, best money I spent in quite a while.

[Cody Colston]

I too used an 890 in the table until I got a lift on sale.

+3

I got a smoking deal on a Rousseau lift and quit using the built-in depth adjustment.

[Gene Howe]

PC7518 in a Jessem with a Jointech fence. Wouldn't trade the set up for anything else.

[Joe Angrisani]

I have a Porter Cable 7518 mounted to a JessEm Rout-R-Lift.

That said, if I was buying today, I'd probably go with something like the big Triton with above-table use designed in. I think many people who say they prefer "no lift" are talking about a modern router with above-table adjustments, not a fixed router just mounted under the table.

[Jack Lemley]

Porter Cable 7518 mounted in an Incra lift with the complete Incr fence set up and the Incra table. Wouldn't trade it for anything else

[Bill Huber]

I started out with a small Bosch table and a 1617 without above table adjustment. I then got the newer Bosch base with the above table adjustment and that was much much better but you still had to lock and unlock the base under the table. This was not bad but it was still somewhat of a pain to make fine adjustments with. It was also not very accurate when doing the adjustments, move the router a little, lock it down, unlock it and move it some more and on and on.

I then got a lift and there is just no comparing. The lift is so much smoother to use, it is much easier to get a very accurate adjustment on.

When you look at a good lift next to a base on a router it is very hard to not see how much better a lift is then the base.

I don't think it is one of those things you just have to have as a hobby woodworker but then a cabinet table saw is not either. It is one of those things that once you get it its hard to think of working without it.

[Jerome Hanby]

I have a Triton with above-table bit changes and height adjustment, so no lift for me. I can't see any advantage to a lift, when compared to modern routers offering above-the-table adjustment built-in.

When I voted, I considered that a lift... I use a Freud with above the table locks and adjustments. Of course, I still have my Hitachi Router mounted in a table saw wing. I use that for round overs and other simple edge treatments.

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

PC 7518 in the PRL with the Sidewinder Crank. With the crank it is incredibly accurate to up plunge a dado or through groove into a piece if needed. Either count the turns or set a digital indicator. I am still finding applications for this.

[Carl Civitella]

If i had the extra cash i would go for a lift. Soooooooooo i just stuggle on with a fixed base under table and adjust by hand. Carl

[Shawn Pixley]

Router is my least favorite and least used tools. So no lift for me.

[Dave Gaul]

I recently installed the big Triton router in a Veritas steel top. It is set up for above the table adjustment, but I find it just as easy, maybe even easier to just reach under the table and use the adjustments that way.

[George Beck]

For years my router table was basically a PC 690 mounted to a piece of MDF. It worked fine but bit changes and adjustment was tricky. I was set to go with a lift until I discovered the Triton router. Last year I installed the big Triton router in a Festool MFT and I love it. The better dust collection, the bit change and variable speed are quite nice. When not in use, I just pop the router out and add a flat plate and use the Festool table as , well a Festool table. I mounted a switch for one off, which slides into the rails of the MFT. If I have big work going on, I just fold up the table and hang it on the wall.

[Ray DuBose]

Have a Woodpecker PRL with a PC 890 and a WoodPecker PRL-V2 with a PC 7518.. Love my lifts.

[pat warner]

Made one table for a client with a BenchDog lift (http://patwarner.com/images/bdpwf.jpg) under the top.
No windows cut in this one.
I do not use (http://patwarner.com/cutter_depth.html), however.

[Brian D Anderson]

I too have the Triton with the above table adjustment. And you know what . . . I don't use it. I find it just as easy to open my door and adjust the height from below. It's much quicker when doing the "course" adjustment. I'm usually adjusting the height by eye, so I'm crouched down already . . . not really a big deal to grab the handle and adjust. I just made sure to mount the router such that the height controls face towards the door.

I did like something I read here when someone asked why even have router lifts. The answer went something like, why do cars have automatic windows . . .

-Brian

[Gene Waara]

I got a Bosch 1617 and Jesem for Xmas last year. Now I don't know why I waited so long.

[Jeff Duncan]

If you limited the vote to pro shops I'd hazard a guess your friend might be right. I don't think I've ever seen a lift in any shop I worked in or visited. IMHO they are a large investment for little reward.
Having said that everybody carries them these days so somebody is buying them;)
good luck,
JeffD

[Peter Quinn]

:cool:
If you limited the vote to pro shops I'd hazard a guess your friend might be right. I don't think I've ever seen a lift in any shop I worked in or visited. IMHO they are a large investment for little reward.
Having said that everybody carries them these days so somebody is buying them;)
good luck,
JeffD

I'm with Jeff on this. I suggested we could use a lift a work and got laughed at hard. Just more fussy junk to break, i was told. Of course the 7 shapers in the room all have lifts by design, so go figure? And the over arm router has pneumatic driven height adjustment, so I think that counts as a lift? Yeah, who would want a convenient precise micro adjustable above table height adjustment mechanism when you can save a few bucks by crouching under a dusty router table and fiddling with a crusty PC depth adjustment? Why go SET and RUN when you can go HUNT and PECK?:cool:

At home I started with a bosch router that had an extra base screwed to a table, it was cheap and it worked. Later I bought a TS with a Jessum lift in the outboard table and I have never gone back to that bosch set up again. Its just too easy, and precise set ups are a breeze. I wonder if anyone ever uses a good lift then goes back to router base screwed to a table?

[Chip Lindley]

I would still be using the P-C 7518 standard base attached to an aluminum insert, BUT, got a great deal on a JessEm Rout R Lift on CL. For $145 I switched! There is still NO manufactured fence I would pay their big money for. I made my own to my own liking.

[Bill Trouard]

I have a PC7518 with a Kreg (Woodpeckers 420 V2) lift in a full size kreg table with fence and a Rockler Dustbucket below

[Paul Canaris]

Done it both ways, a router lift is much more accurate and reproducible. I use the Bench Dog system.

[johnny means]

I understand how lifts are inherently more precise than older style router adjustments, but could someone please explain "repeatability". As far as I can tell, adjustment still comes down to a manual "eyeballing" of a bit that was just chucked up.

I voted none, but am really trying to justify the Benchdog lift.

[Roger Newby]

I'm using a PC 7529 that I adapted to use the depth setting as a lift with above table adjustment. Wish I had a couple more of that model.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I understand how lifts are inherently more precise than older style router adjustments, but could someone please explain "repeatability". As far as I can tell, adjustment still comes down to a manual "eyeballing" of a bit that was just chucked up.



Generally, you can chuck the bit, lower it to under the table, then crank it up until the top hits, say, a ruler that you set across the bit opening. Then you've "zeroed" it, and can repeatably raise the bit from there by counting how many turns of the lift mechanism are needed to get to the desired height.

[johnny means]

Generally, you can chuck the bit, lower it to under the table, then crank it up until the top hits, say, a ruler that you set across the bit opening. Then you've "zeroed" it, and can repeatably raise the bit from there by counting how many turns of the lift mechanism are needed to get to the desired height.

Seems no more precise than a set up block. The "zero" setting is not absolute and is eyeballed everytime. This no better than eyeballing to any other known measurement. Granted, it would seem to be a fairly effective and precise method of repeating a set up, but no more precise or easier than many other techniques. Why not "zero out" to a set up block and eliminate any possibilty of error, like miscounting or using the wrong information.

Don't get me wrong, really do want one of these things, but I think the nifty side cranks are more compelling than any perceived improvement in utility.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Seems no more precise than a set up block.

I agree. If you really want precision, just use a dial indicator to measure the bit height and adjust to that. With a dial indicator, you could easily get precision to 0.001" or better with nothing more than a fixed-base router screwed to the bottom of the table and adjusted from below.

[Larry Frank]

I have a Woodpeckers UniLift and have had two different routers on it. I am very pleased with it as it works smoothly and is very sturdy.
With my back, I could never be bending over and reaching under the table to make all of the adjustments. I like the ability to raise the bit in small controlled increments to get the exact cut that I need.

[Chris Tsutsui]

I go with a lift mainly because of adjustability.

I had an older porter cable 3.25hp speedmatic plunge router and the spring for the plunge plus sticky mechanics made it very difficult to do any fine adjustment on it. I know pro's like David marks had one in a router table... I just couldn't deal with it so I sold it and got the porter cable 3.25HP router that had a removable fixed base, then put it in a lift for easy adjustment. Made life much easier.

I think the best way to go for bit height is to get a wixey or Rockler digital height gauge. You could just set this on top of the router table and measure the height of the bit once you have it perfect. You could then get consistent bit heights even if you add or remove the bit from the collet.

When I'm done with the router table, I lower the bit down, place a piece of melamine on top of the router table, and it becomes a work table that always has junk on it...

[Mike Henderson]

I think the best way to go for bit height is to get a wixey or Rockler digital height gauge. You could just set this on top of the router table and measure the height of the bit once you have it perfect. You could then get consistent bit heights even if you add or remove the bit from the collet...
I've never measured the height of a router bit. When I route a profile, I use a scrap piece of wood, perhaps a cutoff, and make a cut with the bit too low. Then I raise it after looking at how the profile looks. I can usually get the proper cut in no more than three cuts.

Mike

[Don Morris]

PC7518 in a table with a Bench Dog Pro Lift. Happy

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

Seems no more precise than a set up block. The "zero" setting is not absolute and is eyeballed everytime. This no better than eyeballing to any other known measurement. Granted, it would seem to be a fairly effective and precise method of repeating a set up, but no more precise or easier than many other techniques. Why not "zero out" to a set up block and eliminate any possibilty of error, like miscounting or using the wrong information.

Don't get me wrong, really do want one of these things, but I think the nifty side cranks are more compelling than any perceived improvement in utility.

You are correct about setup having to be done every time. The difference, however, is in the precision. First, the height adjustment is much more controlled. Second, with a lift there is no more need to clamp the router into the sub-base and having the measurement slightly altered.

Until about 6 months ago, I had a dedicated router table and a router built into the wing of my table saw. Neither had a lift. When doing rail and stiles, for instance, it was time consuming to get the height of each bit set just right. I have since replaced my entire dedicated table with one that includes a lift. What a difference! (The table saw wing has not changed.)

Now I can set the bit in the router on the table saw at the desired height and not worry about a few thou up or down. The router in the lift with the mating profile now takes only 2 test cuts to get as close to a perfect fit as you can get with wood. (I still do a 3rd cut to verify). No more struggling with clamping and unclamping the router to adjust the height - just a slight turn of the crank either way.

Professionals have multiple shapers set up for production runs. I can understand why they would not use a router to do this job. Routers are not really designed for this, but with the addition of a lift, non-professionals can achieve similar results without the endless fiddling around. Is it cost effective? That really depends on the price you put on time and ease of work.

BTW, I do have a side crank (Woodpeckers) and love it. I did have to polish the shaft and put some quality machine oil on it, but it is a joy to use.

[David Hostetler]

No lift here. Just a Hitachi router mounted to my plate...

[Stew Hagerty]

Woodpeckers Sidewinder 420 mounted in an Incra Table with their LS17 System and holding a PC7518. I absolutely love this setup. The sidewinder is very easy to use and allows for highly accurate setups. You just can't beat Woodpeckers, and its all made in the USA.

[Rick Moyer]

I just want to know what cigar and drinks you were enjoying!

btw, no lift here but maybe someday.

[Kenneth Hertzog]

jointec vertical lift and a MCLS horizontal lift

[Robert Todd]

I use an old PC 690 bolted directly to my router table. The table is fastened to the base with hinges at the rear, so when I change bits I just tilt up the table and remove the router from its base and then reinstall and lower the table, quick easy and cheap.

[Jim Leslie]

Jessem lift here w/Incra fence.

[Teri Lu]

p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; } No router table here, therefore no lift :-) I didn't vote as I didn't think it was fair.


I'm of the same opinion as Robert Todd in reply #43. A long time ago I saw a picture of someone's router table that had the whole table top hinged at the back so that instead of squatting down to making a height adjustment, he just tilted the top up so that his line of sight was along the top and also the router height control was easily reached. Maybe it was his setup I saw if he had a web page with pictures. He used a simple prop rod to hold up the table as he made any adjustments. To use, he just lowered the top back down. Simple and cheap!


The only downside of the tilting top I can see is that it doesn't contribute to the cabinet stiffness in racking and making the top lighter becomes a priority to avoid having to add gas springs, counterbalance weights or such to assist in lifting. I was planning on a "torsion box" top construction anyway. I'll mount the router to a plate like Robert Todd does for ease in making cutter changes.


My PC router with a fixed base has a very smooth height/depth adjustment, I just need to make a better and easier to use clamping lock knob than the original. Much cheaper than a router lift and I'm too poor to buy a new router anyway.


– Teri



I use an old PC 690 bolted directly to my router table. The table is fastened to the base with hinges at the rear, so when I change bits I just tilt up the table and remove the router from its base and then reinstall and lower the table, quick easy and cheap.