Large Planers

[John Tallyn]

I'm considering getting a "large" planer for my shop, something in the 20" range. For those of you that have these, any recommendations? Is it worth it getting the spherical cutters, from the little bit of research I've done there seems to be a lot of disagreement on whether the spherical cutters are worth the extra cash.
Thanks
John

[Jim Foster]

I have a 15" Powermatic with the Byrd-Shellix head and I love it. The surface comes out really nice, but it's not perfectly flat, so it needs some sanding or hand planing afterwards. It also reduces tear-out dramatically almost to a point of being a non-issue. My planer is on a wooden second story floor that bounces pretty easily, so on a good concrete surface the results for tear-out and flatness are probably better. After getting the planer, I want to replace my jointer head with a Byrd-Shellix as well

[David Kumm]

Most of the old straight knife planers came with an installed knife grinder. If you know how to use them you can get a great finish. If you only need to sharpen blades once or twice a year it is tough to master. I gave up mine for an Oliver 299 with the ITCH head. That was the first insert head- along with the Newman Whitney. They still require a sharpener-about once every few years in my world. If you find a machine with a tersa head, consider it. Have never heard of anyone who didn't like it. I also have a delta dc33 with a byrd head for finish planing. Really like it. Changing blades on a planer is more of a pain than on a jointer so in my world the planer is the place for the shelix. I'm mainly a used guy but SCMI made a great planer, although the footprint isn't small. The oliver actually had the smallest footprint for a 24". The older cast iron planers considered the 18 to 20" their light duty planers. They weighed about 1300 lbs while the 24" were about 3000. You can see I don't know much about the newer planers in comparison. SCMI, Felder, and of course Martin are in a class by themselves. There are a lot of new lower cost planers that work just fine. I just don't consider them in the same class as the old stuff. The byrd head is worth it to me, but not if you have to get a cheaper planer to afford it. Dave

[John Tallyn]

David, I agree that the older planers are great, I've used a few, but hadn't thought of going that route, that idea certainly has a lot of merit. Might spend some time looking for an older planer. Is their a website, book, or article that would give me some more info on some of the older planers?

John

[J.R. Rutter]

A lot depends on how you will use the planer. Freshly sharpened steel knives give the (arguably) best finish, but they don't last very long. Tersa heads are great and based on my experience with Terminus heads in my moulder, they are fast and easy to change. You can run several knife materials to get the best combination of surface quality and lifespan.

I had a Byrd head on my 20" Shop Fox. It worked very well. When I got my larger/heavier RC-63 planer, I made sure that it also had the Byrd head. The only issue that I have had is a small percentage of inserts breaking after rotating. They have to be seated just right. The planed surface is slightly scalloped due to the approximation of the helix that comes from using individually radiused inserts in the spiral pattern on the head. But it is easier to sand off these very shallow ridges as opposed to getting rid of tear out. It would be nice if some company would offer alloy inserts as an alternative to carbide. The carbide finish quality is quite good though.

Personally, I need a planer setup that can handle abrasive woods like jatoba, glued up panels, knots, and interlocked ribbon-grained woods like African mahogany. Ultimately, everything in my shop goes through a sander, so the Byrd head suits my needs pretty well.

[David Kumm]

Go to OWWM.org and search planer threads. OWWM.com-which is now vintagemachinery.org_I believe has millions of pictures. 18 to 24" planers will set you back 2000 to 6000. The oliver itch is at the high end. There are lots of powermatics, 180,221,225. They will be straight knife. If the powermatic has the quiet head, plan on replacing it with a byrd. Sometimes you can find a good deal on them because very few like the quiet head. Go on Byrds website to find price of replacement heads. The delta 63N is a good old planer that was made by Newman and had their index head. Had fewer knives but well thought of. Look for separate feed motor on the larger planers. 7.5 is better than 5, especially if going to shelix. Segmented pressure bar is good but not that big a deal. If so watch that the center ones are not too worn. Dave

[johnny means]

My Felder has a motorized table with digital height setting. Every time I use it I feel like I'm driving a Bentley. It is so nice not to have to crank a handwheel in order to raise or lower the table, especially when it's a 6" height adjustment. I will never return to manual adjustments. I know this set up is a rarity, but if your considering a euro machine, keep an eye out for these features.

[Jeff Duncan]

In order to get a good recommendation I think we first need good information. There's a lot of different planers out there and bigger and heavier doesn't always mean better. If your planning on doing a handful of projects a year and may use the planer to flatten say a hundred bd. ft. of soft woods every other month, buying a 3000lb Buss planer probably doesn't make a lot of sense. If on the other hand your in business running a thousand bd. ft. a month, you don't want a light duty 3hp 20".

Whether or not the spiral insert heads are worth the money is a very personal thing. If I didn't have a knife grinder on my planer I may find them worth while. However you would never get me to give up the knife grinder for one. As JR said the finish from sharp straight knives properly setup is hard to beat.

As for used, I'm a big fan. Most of the equipment in my shop is used and the few remaining machines I bought new will someday soon find new homes. However in my case the reason it works so well is because I'm buying industrial machines that I couldn't afford new, SCM, Martin, and similar quality. I would not be as quick to buy an inexpensive import machine used.

good luck,
JeffD

[David Kumm]

Jeff is right on. You buy used to get a quality level you can't afford to pay for new. I am one of those guys running a few hundred ft or more a year through big industrial machines because hobbies don't have to make sense. If you have the room and ability to go 3 phase, go for what you like if it is a hobby. If a business you have to be responsible. Bummer. Dave

[John Toigo]

Flat belt planers are fun too!

194366

[John Tallyn]

I appreciate all the info, this is one of the things I love about being a "creeker", the honest opinions on everything from equipment to techniques,to just plain helpful info. I started out doing woodworking as a hobby, then did a few pieces for family, then a few more for friends of family, and since I've been "retired" I can't seem to be able to keep up with the "I've got a friend that is looking for an (end table, coffee table, nightstands, etc), would you mind talking to them" type of work. So, the planer I'm looking for is more then a small hobbyist type, but I do not have three phase, and due to zoning restrictions, can't install it in my garage, (would love to have an oliver or such). I'm more restricted to a larger jet or powermatic types, unless some of you have some ideas as far as a good quality 230, single phase. I don't seem to have the mechanical ability to repair/restore older equipment as much as I'd like to, (my past attempts at doing car repairs have always inevitably end up costing me twice as much as it would have had, had I simply taken the car to a garage). So I'm still open to ideas, and appreciate all of you taking the time to help me out.
John

[Brian Ross]

You certainly can't argue with the quality in the old machines. I have a DC 580, 20 inch Delta made in China. I recently added a Byrd head and it is worth every penny. I build kitchens and run a lot of hard maple and tear out is a thing of the past. I agree that sharp steel knives give the best finish but keeping them sharp is another story. I probably run a couple of hunded BF a month and couldn't be happier. I certainly would be happier with a Euro planer, bigger is better, but I don't see how the finish can be improved on what i have. Good luck with your journey.

Brian

[David Kumm]

John, Powermatic is probably your best used bet for single phase. Many of them have been converted, although 5 hp is kind of the limit. If you have enough amps to run single phase you can go RPC route fairly easily and will probably save enough on machines to cancel out the cost. A planer will run on a vfd as well. Good luck, Dave

[Jeff Duncan]

So it sounds like what you want is a larger planer, single phase, ready to work, with as little maintenance/repair as possible. I'd say your best candidates are going to be new machines from Jet, Grizzly or Powermatic. I'd prefer the Powermatic as the newer (Taiwanese) machines I bought from them were very decent quality, but there are a lot of happy Grizzly owners out there as well.

The older machines are almost inevitably going to require some work. Even if you get one that's single phase in running condition, chances are good that at the very least you'll be replacing bearings and belts down the road.

Be aware that no matter what you buy, new or used, you will likely still need to fine tune it to get it running as good as possible. Just part of the woodworking experience.

good luck,
JeffD

[Mike Cruz]

I have a 20" Grizzly. Planer is actually very nice...AFTER all the adjustments... Got it used, so I had to expect that. Anyway, I have the Byrd head on my jointer and love it. I would get it in a heartbeat for the planer if it didn't run $800+. Maybe someday...

[Mike Heidrick]

I also own the Delta DC580 20". I use the straight knives. It workes awesome for me. Best thing about the DC580 is segmented infeed rollers IMO. The 24" Powermatic also has that. They are some of the best new 20" planers you can buy for less than 5 grand IMO. Six inch dust collection on this one. These are not a typical 4 post 20" planer design so the Byrd cost a bit more.

[John Tallyn]

I would love an older machine such as an Oliver, simply do not have the time to spend 3 - 6 months doing that, plus I'm not the most mechanically inclined individual. I like the prices on the Grizzly's, just not sure how they will stand up to a semi professional environment, not that I consider myself a pro, but right now, and for at least the next 18 months I've got a lot of work lined up. Every new machine requires some tweaking, setup and adjusting, so I'm used to that. I hadn't considered the Delta DC 580, but given the info and reviews, think I'm going to have to move that up to the top of the list, along with one of the big powermatics. So, byrd or helix cutterhead, probably going to go with the byrd. Thanks for the info, now a matter of seeing where I can get the cheapest price, along with a delivery.
John

[jonathan eagle]

If you can get a used newer machine, that's the best. You get newer technology.

[David Kumm]

Other than cutterhead and electric table movement there really isn't much new in planer technology. The design of pressure bars, chipbreakers, feedrollers, etc is pretty much the same. Look at the price of a northfield which was close to top end but not quite. It is the quality of the mechanicals, bearings, castings that won't be the same on new machines unless you pay the 15-25000 that an equivalent new planer will go for. Anything less than 10 years old of the same quality will set you back 10000. I'm not implying older is always better but for the money, the newer stuff is not in the same league. Granted we won't live long enough for it to really matter. Dave