12 foot desktop with qtr sawn white oak

[scott vroom]

I finally located some 5/4 qtr sawn white oak boards to make a 12' long desk top: MacBeath Hardwood in SF had a unit of 13 footers that I picked through to get 4 decent boards with good flecking.

For a small upcharge MacBeath ripped them straight and parallel.

For thicknessing we plan to run the boards through the 15" spiral head planer - one guy feeding the other guy supporting the outfeed.

The sawn edges are very smooth and can probably be glued up after some light edge sanding. I may try a pass on my 8" x 72" jointer but am not sure if 2 guys can run these long heavy boards across the 8" x 72" planer table. Has anyone tried this sucessfully?

I've never done a glue up of this size am anxious about messing up $350 of wood :eek:. Any and all suggestions appreciated. I don't have a wide drum sander nor do I have access to one. We plan to use biscuits for alignment and a belt sander/ROS to smooth the top. I'm expecting the finished top to be somewhat out of flat and am counting on pulling any slight warping flat when I bolt the top to the base cabinets.

We plan to finish with GF Enduro clear poly, both top and bottom.

Below are a couple of pics that will give you an idea of the design. There will be two 42" wide base cabinets, one at each end, to support the 12' top.

[John Piwaron]

If you see my reply to someone else about their table top, you'll note that I don't use any alignment aids. Just yellow glue between the boards. I'm pretty good at getting the alignment close, but it's not totally perfect. I send them through a thickness sander later at my lumber dealer.

In a case like yours, I'd use lots of Bessy K bodies (or equal) and use cauls to bring them into virtually perfect alignment. I'd also use an adhesive that didn't grab too quick. Polyurethane adhesive (Gorilla glue) would be something I might try.

As far as jointing - if they're too heavy or unwieldy to joint, maybe you could use a straight edge longer than those boards and use a ball bearing guided router bit to do that. I wouldn't sand. Too much risk of the edge not being perpendicular. It'd leave gaps in the surface. The sawn edge may be good enough as is. I've done that too.

[Brian Tymchak]

The sawn edges are very smooth and can probably be glued up after some light edge sanding. I may try a pass on my 8" x 72" jointer but am not sure if 2 guys can run these long heavy boards across the 8" x 72" planer table. Has anyone tried this sucessfully?


Even with KD QS and your supplier put straight edges at the store, with planing and acclimation of the material to your environment, there is a real possibility that the wood moved enough to leave a gap when you butt the boards together, particularly over such long boards. My personal process would be to joint fresh edges anyway after waiting for the wood to acclimate (a couple of weeks) and to acclimate after planing (a couple of days).

I single-handedly ran 9' 8/4 Ash through my 6x56 jointer. I used roller stands for in and out feed support of the material and took my time to keep a steady feed rate and consistent pressure across the knives. Position the rollers such that less than 1/2 the board length is outside the roller stand before or after crossing knives. This will keep the board from wanting to tip away from the jointer table and be more managable. I set the roller stand height using a straight edge off the jointer tables. If you don't have roller stands, your assistant will have to be very careful to not apply any up/down pressure on the board as you feed it over the knives.

[Scott T Smith]

Scott, I work with 12' lengths of quartersawn oak every day. Based upon your photo's and what appears to be about a 30" wide top surface, I'm presuming that the boards are in the 8" width range?

Have you thought about face jointing those boards before planing? If they will fit on your planer, if you use a power feeder on the discharge table you should have good success.

Re edge jointing long boards on a jointer, it has been my experience that it is a challenge unless you have really long in and outfeed tables. You might want to use a router and template instead. If you do use the jointer, it's a good idea to use a tall featherboard to keep them flush against the fence. Brian's advice above sounds pretty good.

[Prashun Patel]

When I did my counter, I spent a lot of time planning the clamping procedure. I used a few cauls to keep boards aligned.

I'd do it one board at a time. Keeps the sweat factor down.

I'd also use Titebond extend to give you some time to get everything tight.

As for jointing, I'd spot the edges for plane or saw marks and knock them flat with a handplane. Then I'd dry clamp them together with thin paper between the joint at multiple spots. If you see any gaps, or any of the paper pulls out, then I'd consider jointing; else, I'd just glue as is. If I had to joint, I'd use a hand plane with the pieces bookmatched and supported on the ground with clamps.

[scott vroom]

Guys, thanks for the suggestions....

I'm not surprised at the suggestion to use roller stands fore and aft on the jointer. Any suggestions on what brand/model? For this application, micro adjustable height would be a requirement. This is for a business so I'm willing to spend $ on good stands.

I have 4 boards of varying widths that total 29". My gut tells me to rip down the two wider boards and end up with 6 to glue....do you think this really makes a difference in flatness? I'd rather not do it but if it increases my chances of success......

The boards have been stickered in my shop for 2 weeks; I agree they're probably not straight any longer so edge jointing may be required. This does bring up a good question, though. Let's say 2 boards are made straight and the edges of each board are perfectly parallel. The boards are then stickered and end up bowing slightly. As long as the edges remain parallel, what is wrong with pulling the boards stright in the glue up? Why is this considered a no-no? There must be some threshold up to which this can be done without problem. For example, if 2 boards are bowed 1/8" over 13 feet I could easily pull them together at glue up. On the other hand, if 2 boards are bowed 1/2" over 3 feet then common sense says it is not going to work. Where do you guys draw the line? There's a practical aspect to woodworking that balances the ideal and the acceptable. Where is that threshold with glue ups?

[Andrew Hughes]

The rule i use is if i can close the joint with my hands and it looks good.I also check the ends.The middle should stay closed when the ends are closed.Spending time working the boards square and true will help.Good luck scott Hope this helps Andrew

[Jim Foster]

I don't think you need fancy stands for a one off, but good stands are a welcome addition to any shop. (I'd like some, but too many other things at the front of the line) I edge jointed some 2x6x10' fir surprisingly well using some cheap stands, and minimal setup. The first thing I did was level my jointer and mark it's location on the floor (it gets moved) and then using a long straight flat ground steel bar and level get the roller stands located and leveled.

[michael case]

Scott,

Ripped boards are not going to be the best edge for gluing. You might turn this jointing problem on its head. If you clamp the boards securely you could then give them a nice pass with a plane. You could at least remove the saw marks. If the boards are straight enough this is all you need to do anyway. Another suggestion: glue the panel in two halfs then run them through the planer. Then you have to only struggle with one joint on the final assembly. Also, however you proceed do not let the glue dry ahead of you. I feel trying to glue all this up in one pass will lead to skimmed glue and failed joints

[scott vroom]

I purchased a pair of these today. I need the adjustable legs....shop is on an uneven slab.

I like the idea of gluing up and planing 2 halves, then only have to deal with a single glue joint....gonna give it a try.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001LQXKE

[Norman Hitt]

I DO NOT use Biscuits when gluing up any top, because they many times will telegraph through later and look terrible. I do use Cauls on every top or panel glue up and adjust for evenness where necessary with a rubber hammer and a wood block after lightly clamping and then tightening the clamps and cauls when even. I never need more than a light pass or two with a scraper and then sanding. most of the time, I only need to sand.

I have never had much luck using roller stands alone when jointing long boards, so I have made two temporary extension tables by screwing a strip of aluminuim angle under each edge of a piece of MDF or plywood, with the angle Spaced just wide enough apart so they would fit down over each end of the roller (to keep them aligned) and then clamped one to each end of the jointer. You can then adjust them up or down with the roller stands, and that gives you a Loooooong infeed and outfeed table that is very flat, solid and stable. Not needing them often, I usually remove the Alum Angle from the MDF or Plywood and stored the angle for the next time needed.

[scott vroom]

I have never had much luck using roller stands alone when jointing long boards, so I have made two temporary extension tables by screwing a strip of aluminuim angle under each edge of a piece of MDF or plywood, with the angle Spaced just wide enough apart so they would fit down over each end of the roller (to keep them aligned) and then clamped one to each end of the jointer. You can then adjust them up or down with the roller stands, and that gives you a Loooooong infeed and outfeed table that is very flat, solid and stable. Not needing them often, I usually remove the Alum Angle from the MDF or Plywood and stored the angle for the next time needed.

Norman, do you have any pictures of your setup? How do you clamp the extensions to the jointer table ends?

[Brian Tymchak]

... If you do use the jointer, it's a good idea to use a tall featherboard to keep them flush against the fence. Brian's advice above sounds pretty good.

Hey Scott, that tall featherboard idea sounds interesting. do you have a picture of it you can post? I'm wondering how to attach the featherboard to the jointer..

Thanks, Brian

[Brian Tymchak]

Guys, thanks for the suggestions....

I'm not surprised at the suggestion to use roller stands fore and aft on the jointer. Any suggestions on what brand/model? For this application, micro adjustable height would be a requirement. This is for a business so I'm willing to spend $ on good stands.



Scott, I see that you already ordered your roller stands. I use the heavy duty stands (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10392) from Rockler. I like those because they have a tapered column. I can raise the head above what I need, set a straight-edge from the table top to the stand, and then use gravity and the adjustment knob to gently lower the head until any gap between the straight-edge and table closes. however, if you have very uneven floors, there is not much adjustment in the feet, some, but not much.

[Sam Layton]

Hi Scott,

You have received a lot of good suggestions. Everyone has their own idea, and here is mine. I would join the boards. It will not be a hard glue up. Join the boards. One guy at the jointer to make sure the board stays in contact with the table and cutter heads. The other guy on the end supporting and feeding you the board, then go to the other end supporting and pulling. Hopefully the boards are flat. If not you will need to join one side. When you join the edges put pencil marks all along the edge, and set your cutter head so it just takes off a very little bit. By using the pencil you can tell if you joined the entire length. Also make sure your fence is 90 deg. Keep track of what side goes next to the fence, and which side is out. So if your fence is not exactly 90 deg it will still line up flat.

Use biscuits for alignment, and glue one board at a time as Prashun suggested. It will be glued up in no time.

Sam

[Norman Hitt]

Norman, do you have any pictures of your setup? How do you clamp the extensions to the jointer table ends?

Scott, I don't think I ever took any pictures of them, but I just cut a strip of plywood or MDF that was wide enough that when the angle was screwed onto the underside edges the vertical sides of the angle would slide down just outside of each end of a roller to hold it in place. To fasten the outfeed table to the jointer varied depending on how the jointer table ends were made. On one old jointer I drilled a couple of holes in the end of the jointers tables and fastened a short piece of angle to it and then fastened the end of the extension table to it with screws and shims to get it even with the jointer table top. On some jointers I used C clamps OR two vicegrips to fasten the angle to the jointer. If the wood was heavy, I used two roller stands under each extension table and just used vicegrips as mentioned before to keep the extension against the jointer table. I'm sorry I'm away from home or I would try to set one up and get you a picture. Basically, the aluminum angle, (IIRC. is 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 96") and their purpose is to keep the MDF or Plywood flat along it's length (like a face frame on a shelf) and also to fit down over the roller to hold it in place.

If there was any bow in the piece to be joined, I always straight lined it first on the tablesaw by screwing two lengths of MDF along the back edge to run against the TS fence, if the board was longer than 96". I use a third length of MDF against the two across the joint to align the two pieces straight when screwing them to the board to be Straight line ripped. After ripping, It normally only required one or maybe two passes across the jointer and is a lot easier than making multiple passes on each end to eliminate the bow.
Hope this helps, but if you have more questions, just holler.