Improving a chisel

[Mark Baldwin III]

A while ago, in my newbie enthusiasm, I got a Two Cherries chisel. "Ooooh, shiny!" I thought to myself. I never liked it. Over buffed...which means rounded corners. Square sides, and didn't hold an edge.
I figured the edge problem was one of three things: 1) bad steel. 2) haven't gotten past the de-carb. 3) honing angle.
What to do about the other problems, though?
Last night I took this thing and threw it on the disc sander. I flattened the back, flattened the sides, and curved the back into a "D" shape (thank you Mr. Charlesworth).
Today, I worked on the back a little more (still more to do), and honed it at 30 degrees. It's a much better chisel now (was easy peasy to push through maple end grain). We'll see how I like it after more use.

First pic is before the grinding session.

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks for the pixs, Mark. What's the advantage of rounding the top side of the chisel into a D shape?

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

curved the back into a "D" shape (thank you Mr. Charlesworth).

I curious about this also.

Looks like a lot of work. Hope it pays off.

jtk

[Mark Baldwin III]

The D shape was strictly to hide the fact that I was not doing a good job of putting a bevel on the sides! In Charlesworth's chisel DVD he shows a chisel ground into that shape for comfort. The sides still have a very tiny flat on them though.

[jamie shard]

I'm pretty sure Charlesworth says he got this from Alan Peters... and yeah, basically a comfort thing. No corners to abuse the hand over a long day of use in a commercial setting. Blue spruce does the same thing with their chisels.

I like your honest answer too Mark! :)

[Derek Cohen]

I would have thought that the rounding of the sides would have helped reduce the shoulders, thus making it a better dovetail chisel.

Here is another way to do this ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Soyouwanttomakeadovetailchisel.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Prashun Patel]

Wow, Derek. Thanks for that.

[Jim Neeley]

I think you're right-on, Derek. I was watching Cosman's chisel video yesterday where he showed a D-handle he'd made and he talked about doing it to reduce the shoulders on a bevel-edge where the bevel was on the top. Thus, the factory chisel was, in effect, a triangle of metal on top of a rectangle of metal, making the shoulders way-thick for getting into dovetails. He said he'd carved the D very slowly on his grinder, belt sander and by hand.

FWIW, that video is an excellant one especially for hand tool beginners like me as it covers what to look for in a set of chisels plus how and when to grind, stone and hone, as well as how to use.

My take was that the D-handle was used as an example of his adaptation of a "poorly designed" dovetail chisel, to make it functional as such. He was not saying the chisel was bad, just that with wide shoulders it was poorly suited for getting into the acute angles used in dovetails.

Considering that Rob trained under Alan Peters and has done some work with Charlesworth (whom he credits repeatedly for his "ruler trick").

I'll be the first to admit that I'm new, inexperienced and trying to learn (hence my next question) but before ever seeing the video it always seemed strange to me that some high-end chisel manufacturers making many kinds of chisels would sell some specifically labeled as "dovetail" that had thick shoulders when even a quick glance at the less-than-90* angles in the joint would call for a chisel with a thin shoulder.

I've observed these most prominently in the high-end Japanese chisels. I'm *not* trying to start a chisel-war here and I know Japanese chisels have a strong group of highly skilled-followers here. The engineer in me is just confused because they just don't look "fit-for-service" when cutting dovetails, no matter how good they may cut or how long they may hold their edge.

Will one of you explain to me what I'm missing? I really want to learn.

Jim

[john brenton]

I recently turned a mortise chisel shaped cheap-o chinese chisel into a dovetail chisel, but didn't do it nearly as nicely as derek. I just used the side of the grinder, which is something that really has the potential for disaster...but I wear a face mask and a pretty heavy duty apron. It took about 15 minutes or so. I've got to get out of the habit of using the side of the wheel...but it's just so easy and you get a better result.

You got to love the lightness of those two cherries chisels though. You don't feel any weight when you're holding them upright.

[Pam Niedermayer]

...I'll be the first to admit that I'm new, inexperienced and trying to learn (hence my next question) but before ever seeing the video it always seemed strange to me that some high-end chisel manufacturers making many kinds of chisels would sell some specifically labeled as "dovetail" that had thick shoulders when even a quick glance at the less-than-90* angles in the joint would call for a chisel with a thin shoulder.

I've observed these most prominently in the high-end Japanese chisels. I'm *not* trying to start a chisel-war here and I know Japanese chisels have a strong group of highly skilled-followers here. The engineer in me is just confused because they just don't look "fit-for-service" when cutting dovetails, no matter how good they may cut or how long they may hold their edge.

Will one of you explain to me what I'm missing? I really want to learn.

What you're missing is very subtle and not known by many: Japanese dovetail chisels are called "dovetail" because of their shape, like a dove's tail, not their function.

Pam

[Mark Baldwin III]

I have one Japanese dt chisel, the sides come all the way down to meet the bottom without a flat. It's nice for getting into a corner.
The real purpose behind regrinding this chisel was to get rid of the rounded corners and reduce the side flats a bit. If I had used a bench grinder or belt sander, I may have been able to bevel the sides better. The disc sander and I had a disagreement, and I let the disk sander win...hence I went with rounding over the top to help reduce the sides.
In the end, I took a $40 tool that I found I was never using and turned it into a tool I am more likely to use (and get my money's worth).

[Jim Neeley]

Pam,

That makes complete sense. Japanese chisels look very interesting and I figured I must be missing something subtle like that.

Thank you!! :-)

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Jim

To emphasise Pam's point, I illustrate this in a review of the Koyamaichi dovetail chisels I have:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/KoyamaichiChisels.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark Baldwin III]

I have the 1/4" chisel like Derek's. The side flats are so tiny that I never noticed they were even there! Awesome chisel, I think I've only sharpened it twice in the last year.

[Joel Goodman]

Ashley Isles has some "D" shaped chisels that TWW sells --- has anyone tried them? They call them "round back dovetail chisels" They make the normal sizes and a 1/16"!